Why was lemmygrad blocked? - sh.itjust.works
sh.itjust.works
Did the admins poll the community about it? Why was such measure so needed? If the tankie content is so annoying why not let users decide what they want to see or not and what they want to block? I don’t like that the admins want to censor the content I can view or not. You guys are not protecting us nor doing us a favor, you’re imposing your views over everyone else by limiting the information we are able to receive. I don’t support the devs views or the views in lemmygrad, but this is a dangerous precedent. I’ve read several of the “arguments” for blocking the instance and all I can see is a bunch of people talking about politics and arguing about “floods in the frontpage”. Well, let the user block communities if that’s the case, same way I’m already blocking communities I’m not interested. I think the admins want to feel like Facebook moderation. I’d be OK with it if any instance repeatedly generated spam, security, doxxing or any other concern that couldn’t be solved by banning individuals, otherwise it’s just plain censorship. I just don’t want the admins to use their power to decide what I can see or not. If this is going to be like this, I’ll leave for a better instance because I can see where this is going to.

EDIT: It seems that I have may have gotten the wrong impression about the community structure here from the @TheDude comment I listed below. It looks like this should have been posted to The Agora. I appreciate everyone who took the time to respond. Now I must go find fresh air and see if I can find this grass thing that I have heard so much about.

First, let me say thank you for spending your time and money on creating and maintaining this instance.

Second, the name sh.itjust.works is great. It gives me a little half smile every time I type it.

Third, I am hoping this can be my Fediverse home base but I have a single concern.

Now on to the meat:

I have been over on lemmy.world for the last few days and really enjoying the content and experience, but as I was learning more about the Fediverse I realized they have blocked a whole slew of other instances. Most of the reason I have grown to dislike and distrust reddit over the years was because of their random subreddit bans that didn’t follow their own rules and processes, so it was a pretty big turn-off for me looking at the lemmy.world Instances List.

When I heard this instance only had two blocked instances, I immediately came here to check it out. I quickly saw like-minded individuals genuinely engaging in reasonable discussion about what should and should not be defederated, so I decided to go ahead and make an account. It didn’t take long though before I decided to look into why each of the instances were banned.

It seems like burggit allows simulated CP which is a pretty decent reason for blocking them in my mind. On the other hand, the only thing I could find about lemmygrad.ml was this (https://sh.itjust.works/comment/130474) post that says you blocked it because of your personal convictions.

Given that this instance is your own personal project, I certainly don’t fault you for choosing what is acceptable and what is not, but I am concerned about making sh.itjust.works my home base if it is just the start. Based on the previous post it doesn’t seem like something you are going to change your mind about, nor do I have an interest in trying to convince you to do so. What I would like to know is if this is going to be a regular thing.

Are you intending to block any instances with political opinions that you are staunchly against? Further, are you planning to create any sort of standard for what kind of instance you are likely or unlikely to ban in the future?

Bonus question for my curiosity: What makes lemmygrad so against your personal convictions? While I have a basic understanding of Marxism/Communism and am aware that current communist countries have a pretty questionable history of violence and suppressing personal and political freedoms, I think an objective viewer might say the same thing about the representative republic that I live in.

tl;dr: Are you going to block other instances for personal reasons? Also, are you going to create any standards to indicate which instances may be blocked in the future?

  • NahviOPEnglish
    1110·
    2 years ago

    That sounds like a good reason to block that idiot or maybe even that community from my own thread, but I would rather make my own choice as to when someone or a community is not acting in good faith. I don’t need someone with different values than my own trying to protect me from some words I might find offensive.

    On the other hand, blocking burggit so I don’t have simulated CP showing up in my feed is not the kind of choice that I need clarification about.

    • Lols [they/them]@lemm.eeEnglish
      174·
      2 years ago

      I don’t need someone with different values than my own trying to protect me from some words I might find offensive.

      it seems like you have a fundamental issue with instances like sh.itjust.works and would be better off joining a different one, or even better making your own then

      • NahviOPEnglish
        22·
        2 years ago

        Seems like I would save myself sometime by creating a dozen different logins through the various instances. I am up to four now.

        I guess using current number of blocked instances was not as useful of an indicator for finding an instance that was free-speech leaning, but not purists, as I thought it was.

        • BarbarianEnglish
          71·
          2 years ago

          I hope you find an instance that fits your needs. I honestly do.

          What this place is hasn’t really been decided yet. The first few days were IT guys and generally techy people that liked the server setup. Then we had a big influx of users and the predictable chaos that follows. Then general ideas and frameworks started being put down by our admin and mods to try and steer that chaos.

          You’ve walked in the door right as we’re trying to figure out what we want this place to be and how we want to run it.

          • NahviOPEnglish
            31·
            2 years ago

            Thanks. I appreciate the sentiment.

          • NahviOPEnglish
            21·
            2 years ago

            Thank you for the suggestion, but their blocked instances list is about the same length as the one from lemmy.world

            I hadn’t really considered that whole instances would be banned for nothing more than having bots. I may need to look more into what lemmy.world was banning for.

            • GodEnglish
              3·
              2 years ago

              Lemm.ee is only banning instances that have abnormal growth (i.e. They didn’t enable captcha, have maybe 7 active users, and suddenly go from 30 total registrations to 52000 in a couple of days). Other than that there is nothing banned for ideological reasons unlike sh.itjust.works and other instances.

              • BarbarianEnglish
                22·
                2 years ago

                I would argue that even lemmygrad isn’t an ideological ban, it’s an anti-brigading/trolling ban. There are plenty of marxist-leninist folk on lemmy.ml that share the same philosophy, but don’t go full “ATTACK THE HEATHEN” like lemmygrad does.

                • GodEnglish
                  4·
                  2 years ago

                  I’d say it’s an ideological ban. If you read the original TheDude’s message, it was an ideological ban. Also, they have very few subscribers. It can be easy to ban them. Do I want to see their content in my feed? No. Do I care if they comment under my funny posts with a “lol thank god”? I don’t mind either. I don’t join the people with their ideology. I moderate a few communities and it would be very easy to ban people who abused, but so far it hasn’t happened in any of the servers I am in that are federated with lemmygrad. Maybe it’ll happen in the future. I don’t consider myself incapable of dealing with these people if they try and raid something. They are also very prolific at creating accounts in other servers. For example, see the amount of downvotes in this thread: https://sh.itjust.works/post/37624

                  • BarbarianEnglish
                    2·
                    2 years ago

                    It could very well be the case that I’ve had 3 bad experiences and my perspective is biased based on that. I will try and be cautiously open-minded if the situation on this instance ever changes.

        • 🇺🇦 Max UL@lemmy.proEnglish
          4·
          2 years ago

          You would save yourself time by making your own instance, and run it how you like. We did that, and thousands of other people have, too. It’s not hard.

          • NahviOPEnglish
            1·
            2 years ago

            I am not too worried about the technical difficulties of hosting an instance, but I really don’t want to deal with the social ones. I would rather sit back and appreciate @TheDave for the trouble he and the other admins go through.

            • 🇺🇦 Max UL@lemmy.proEnglish
              3·
              2 years ago

              There isn’t much to worry about. We made our instance at the same time as sh.itjust.works but didn’t get popular, and also had all the restrictions for account creation in place. So we barely have any users, run our own show and fly under all the radar.

    • pancakesEnglish
      142·
      2 years ago

      Sounds like you would be happier swapping instances. For the most part, the people here want it to remain a civil place without having the side project of keeping up with which instances are trash and manually having to block things. I’m sure there’s instances with much more liberal views on defederation that suit your personal preferences better.

      • NahviOPEnglish
        89·
        2 years ago

        Sounds like you would be happier swapping instances.

        I am not so sure that you read my post. This was the new instance that I went to because it had less blocked instances.

        I will tell you that the more of these comments I read the more I am starting to think that I never left reddit and that few people, if any, bothered to read anything besides the title.

        • pancakesEnglish
          61·
          2 years ago

          …I would rather make my own choice as to when someone or a community is not acting in good faith. I don’t need someone with different values than my own trying to protect me from some words I might find offensive.

          Maybe I misunderstood but this is the section that I was referring to.

          • NahviOPEnglish
            32·
            2 years ago

            Turns out that I completely misunderstood the community structure here. There is a good chance that I was the one being confusing.

        • sneakyninjapantsEnglish
          3·
          2 years ago

          You can always make an account at lemmy.sdf.org. I was checking them out a few days ago and they have no servers blocked at all, and sdf is a really great organization to boot. This server will in time defederate other instances, of that there is no doubt. Discussions and voting on it have already happened, and may or may not be implemented, or invalidated. If you’re looking for an instance that haven’t defederated others, there are many options to choose from like the one I posted above, or you can choose to stay here and try to change minds, but you’ll likely be facing an uphill battle.

          • NahviOPEnglish
            2·
            2 years ago

            Thanks, I will have to check them out later. I am almost a bit surprised that I don’t recognize SDF. I spent some time using a few telnet sites some years ago.

    • BarbarianEnglish
      81·
      2 years ago

      I should clarify that this wasn’t just 1 user that was isolated. This was an upvoted comment, with many other users congratulating him on his commitment to “trolling the libtards”.