Full Mac updates not only usually update the entirety of the system and then run an SIP check, but often are firmware updates for the hardware, that’s why they now have a separate setup for quick security updates, which often happen in the background, without a full update required: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102657
Good question. Honestly I’m not sure. Windows installs wipe an NTFS partition and then dump the filesystem there, bootloader is installed and OS boots, job done. My only guess would be that the Mac installer individually hashes every file for security and verifies on write. While ensuring a perfect install and secure OS, it also leads to wildly long install times.
I think you’ve got a setting wrong. I’ve got mine set to download only. So it just downloads the update in the background and notifies me. I have even left that notification sitting there for months before without it forcing or nagging me.
You can turn off automatic updates, but it will still give you a notification when there is one so you can make it update at night.
Also, OS X? Is the OS 10.X or you’re just referring to it as OS X. Because in newer macOS versions, I can confirm the automatic updates do it at night when you’re not using the computer.
That ignore system messages. This post will be anecdotal, but I can’t ever get my systems to suddenly restart or reinstall the bloatware apps like some people claim theirs do. It honestly seems like it’s “power users” fucking with things that they don’t actually understand, and then complaining that things aren’t working the way they expect.
We have 5 Windows 11 systems in our household, and 2 family members that are terrible with computers. None of them act the way some randoms on the Internet claim Windows 11 does with updates all the time. And everyone I personally know doesn’t seem to have these issues either. But we’re also not installing random patches or messing with settings that don’t have a natural and intentional UI element.
All of our systems I help with for family and friends update on their own, and prompt when a restart is needed, including a button to delay the restart. If ignored, it prompts after a day or so again and only if ignored or delayed for an extended period will eventually give a countdown to a forced restart. I only noticed the countdown because I was explicitly trying to reproduce what people online claim about it suddenly restarting while using it. And at that point it WILL restart even in use, but that’s after an extended period, multiple days, of ignoring notifications about it.
I also don’t have issues on my systems with those annoying bloatware app links (like Candy Crush) reinstalling, etc. on their own. I turned off the various advertising settings in the settings menus and uninstalled the app links like normal. They’ve never returned.
Since I’ve been completely unable to reproduce these relatively common complaints on multiple systems myself, I can only assume people are adjusting settings or installing various patches from the Internet that mess with things that aren’t intended to be user-facing and that ends up causing issues. Like the infinite number of patches to remove telemetry, etc. that people don’t know what’s actually being changed by it, but install for privacy.
Agreed.
I’m a professional IT tech and see a lot of desktops during the week including my own.
We have some Windows PCs that still had 1809 installed because Windows does not manage to update itself without being forced to search.
What troubles me is the fact that there is no way to turn off updates and just update when I want it to. Hell, even Android has that. I want to update when I want to, not when MS sees fit to update my operating system.
To be honest, that’s probably because of those “power users” just following online instructions that don’t understand what things do. The ones who then never update, probably because they forget about it, and put everyone else at risk with extremely out of date systems that end up being breached and used in things like botnets. The number of extremely outdated but supported Windows systems in the wild is still way too high to ignore.
You can set your internet connection to be metered, and set it to not download updates over metered connections. Not quite the same, and that may affect some other stuff, but something to look into if you haven’t already. For actual power users, there’s also ways to operate your own WSUS locally for centralized update management, primarily meant for organizations but easy enough to setup in a home lab for those that should be tinkering with that stuff.
Looking in these settings again, it’s been a while since I’ve been in there, it also looks like there’s a specific setting that enables the system to restart immediately, ignoring the active hours setting. I wonder how many of those complaining have that setting enabled? Or have their active hours set weirdly in the first place.
Nah, I just use Windows Update Blocker. It’s way easier than doing WSUS update servers or setting up metered connections.
And I don’t think it’s because systems out there were out of date was the main reason why MS did this. It’s just another tool for control, nothing more… my 2 cents.
I mostly agree with you. But something like 3 years ago, I remember letting my PC run while I was gathering seats over night. There was no previous “restart now” or even “update now”. However, in the morning, I found the PC had restarted too install an update. And that was the standard setting back then. I changed it to only prompt that there are updates since, and AFAIR that setting was “reset” 1 or 2 times ever since in an update.
But seeing how absurdly niche what I do is, I doubt that random users will care. And sadly they need to be forced to update for the sake of all of us.
Confirmed Windows user, lol
I’m a Mac user and let me tell you, it could easily be an osx device. Those friggin updates take forever, and can be forced on you with no warning.
Mac updates are weirdly slow.
Full Mac updates not only usually update the entirety of the system and then run an SIP check, but often are firmware updates for the hardware, that’s why they now have a separate setup for quick security updates, which often happen in the background, without a full update required: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102657
Thanks! I suspected they were doing something under the hood but they are not as overtly transparent in this process.
Good info, thanks.
Any idea why it takes so long to install the OS from a fast USB drive (around 45 minutes)? The same drive installs win10 in under 5 minutes.
Good question. Honestly I’m not sure. Windows installs wipe an NTFS partition and then dump the filesystem there, bootloader is installed and OS boots, job done. My only guess would be that the Mac installer individually hashes every file for security and verifies on write. While ensuring a perfect install and secure OS, it also leads to wildly long install times.
I think you’ve got a setting wrong. I’ve got mine set to download only. So it just downloads the update in the background and notifies me. I have even left that notification sitting there for months before without it forcing or nagging me.
You can turn off automatic updates, but it will still give you a notification when there is one so you can make it update at night.
Also, OS X? Is the OS 10.X or you’re just referring to it as OS X. Because in newer macOS versions, I can confirm the automatic updates do it at night when you’re not using the computer.
Yeah sorry, just meant MacOS! It’s a work computer so I think the IT guys kind of force it sometimes.
That ignore system messages. This post will be anecdotal, but I can’t ever get my systems to suddenly restart or reinstall the bloatware apps like some people claim theirs do. It honestly seems like it’s “power users” fucking with things that they don’t actually understand, and then complaining that things aren’t working the way they expect.
We have 5 Windows 11 systems in our household, and 2 family members that are terrible with computers. None of them act the way some randoms on the Internet claim Windows 11 does with updates all the time. And everyone I personally know doesn’t seem to have these issues either. But we’re also not installing random patches or messing with settings that don’t have a natural and intentional UI element.
All of our systems I help with for family and friends update on their own, and prompt when a restart is needed, including a button to delay the restart. If ignored, it prompts after a day or so again and only if ignored or delayed for an extended period will eventually give a countdown to a forced restart. I only noticed the countdown because I was explicitly trying to reproduce what people online claim about it suddenly restarting while using it. And at that point it WILL restart even in use, but that’s after an extended period, multiple days, of ignoring notifications about it.
I also don’t have issues on my systems with those annoying bloatware app links (like Candy Crush) reinstalling, etc. on their own. I turned off the various advertising settings in the settings menus and uninstalled the app links like normal. They’ve never returned.
Since I’ve been completely unable to reproduce these relatively common complaints on multiple systems myself, I can only assume people are adjusting settings or installing various patches from the Internet that mess with things that aren’t intended to be user-facing and that ends up causing issues. Like the infinite number of patches to remove telemetry, etc. that people don’t know what’s actually being changed by it, but install for privacy.
Agreed.
I’m a professional IT tech and see a lot of desktops during the week including my own.
We have some Windows PCs that still had 1809 installed because Windows does not manage to update itself without being forced to search.
What troubles me is the fact that there is no way to turn off updates and just update when I want it to. Hell, even Android has that. I want to update when I want to, not when MS sees fit to update my operating system.
To be honest, that’s probably because of those “power users” just following online instructions that don’t understand what things do. The ones who then never update, probably because they forget about it, and put everyone else at risk with extremely out of date systems that end up being breached and used in things like botnets. The number of extremely outdated but supported Windows systems in the wild is still way too high to ignore.
You can set your internet connection to be metered, and set it to not download updates over metered connections. Not quite the same, and that may affect some other stuff, but something to look into if you haven’t already. For actual power users, there’s also ways to operate your own WSUS locally for centralized update management, primarily meant for organizations but easy enough to setup in a home lab for those that should be tinkering with that stuff.
Looking in these settings again, it’s been a while since I’ve been in there, it also looks like there’s a specific setting that enables the system to restart immediately, ignoring the active hours setting. I wonder how many of those complaining have that setting enabled? Or have their active hours set weirdly in the first place.
Nah, I just use Windows Update Blocker. It’s way easier than doing WSUS update servers or setting up metered connections.
And I don’t think it’s because systems out there were out of date was the main reason why MS did this. It’s just another tool for control, nothing more… my 2 cents.
You sound almost like an antivaxxer.
No, I’m just a flatearther.
/j
I mostly agree with you. But something like 3 years ago, I remember letting my PC run while I was gathering seats over night. There was no previous “restart now” or even “update now”. However, in the morning, I found the PC had restarted too install an update. And that was the standard setting back then. I changed it to only prompt that there are updates since, and AFAIR that setting was “reset” 1 or 2 times ever since in an update.
But seeing how absurdly niche what I do is, I doubt that random users will care. And sadly they need to be forced to update for the sake of all of us.