28% of Americans rate economic conditions as excellent or good, a 9 percentage point increase from last April. And the share who say economic conditions will be worse a year from now has fallen during this timespan, from 46% to 33%.
Voting third party is splitting the vote. Give me ranked choice voting and I’ll never make a Neo-lib one of my top choices. But, until then, it’s functionally a binary choice. And right-wingers toe the line, and their line is literal fascism. Easy choice. Shitty, but easy.
That’s entirely beside the point. You think the fascists are more likely to give you ranked choice than the neo-libs? This line of thinking is nonsensical past superficial idealism. What’s your alternative, the greater evil? You think that’s going to magically make the ever-so-sightly-further-left corporate party turn progressive?
How’d that work after 2016? If the wake-up-call strategy was going to work, that would’ve been the time. And oh look, we got a geriatric neo-liberal. Fun.
I’m not going to wager a potential fascist dictatorship against the pipe dream that choosing not to vote is a cheat code that what, unlocks the secret actual Leftist candidate? What’s the praxis here? This is like sovcit levels of batshit copium fantasy.
Edit: Downvotes, but no practical alternatives. Idealistic circle jerking.
Voting for anything but one of the top two parties is pointless, voting for the lesser evil is marginally better than voting for the greater evil, not voting is tacit approval of the greater evil. Please tell me, exactly, how does “not voting for the status quo” improve anything? Not rhetorical. I’m asking.
I need to tell you something: perfect is the mortal enemy of better. Both options are bad. One is objectively worse, if you don’t recognize that I assume you’re just part of Putin’s Geopolitik poisoning of the left, whether you know it or not.
Smugly refusing to participate doesn’t make the options better, it just makes it easier for the worse one to win.
Liberals are the most arrogant people on earth: you think reality bends to your will.
you’re just part of Putin’s Geopolitik poisoning of the left, whether you know it or not.
See, you’re just as fascist as Trump; neither of you actually respect other political positions, and both of you scapegoat all of your problems on a grand and sinister conspiracy by some scheming out group trying to ‘poison’ your superior in group. I wouldn’t vote for someone who says I only disagree with them because I’m part of the “Judaeo-Bulshervic conspiracy” and you people are not one iota less loathsome than that.
Liberals are the most arrogant people on earth: you think reality bends to your will.
People who can’t make a realistic choice are far worse. When you represent an itty bitty fraction of the populace, you don’t have the right to dictate that policy be far-left. If you choose to not participate or to vote third party under FPTP, you are only hurting yourself by giving up what little influence you had. That’s just how democracy works.
Stop acting like a state propagandist then. Stop suggesting that neo-libs and fascists are identical just because they’re both bad. -10 > -100, even though both are negative.
Lack of nuance is evidence of idiocy or ulterior motives. I was being generous by assuming you had ulterior motives.
Voting for your interests isn’t “refusing to participate”. It’s the bare minimum in a democracy. It sounds like you’ve chosen to participate in a way which is counter to your own interests, and you’re calling out others for not following your flawed logic.
Look, I know that many of the candidates I vote for are long-shot candidates. It’s highly unlikely that they will win. But if I don’t vote for them, then I’m part of the problem. I’m helping to make it even less likely that they win.
Being part of the winning team feels good, but politics isn’t like football or hockey. This is an important civic responsibility.
Sure, if you live in a state where the result is obvious, then yes vote third party. But you know that they’re not going to win, and the only thing that accomplishes is visibility and possibly funding. You know that at the end of the day, the office will be won by one of the big two.
My opposition is to broadly advocating that for everyone. Too many people do live in swing states to be flippantly both-sidesing an election where Project 2025 is on the table.
Do you live in a swing state? Because I don’t. As far as I see it, voting third party won’t have any effect on the election, but might at least signal that I want change. It’s not like the popular vote matters in this country.
You think the fascists are more likely to give you ranked choice than the neo-libs?
Do you really think that eh neo-libs are more likely than the fascists? Talk about “nonsensical past superficial idealism.”
What’s your alternative, the greater evil? You think that’s going to magically make the ever-so-sightly-further-left corporate party turn progressive?
Better than your idea. Also, I don’t care about ‘decorum’ and ‘civility’, so there’s not much difference between the two parties in terms of evil; the harm hasn’t exactly been reduced under Biden.
I’m not going to wager a potential fascist dictatorship
You really think submissively voting for the blue fascist every election is going to stave off dictatorship?
What’s the praxis here?
What’s yours?
Anybody who votes for genocide Joe deserves Trump anyway.
Do you really think that eh neo-libs are more likely than the fascists?
Significantly? Hah, no. Mathematically? Yes, absolutely. Extremely unlikely vs. “Oh, you wanted to keep voting? Lol”
Better than your idea.
Which is? I’m waiting.
What’s the praxis here?
What’s yours?
Use every tool I have in the way it can be used. Voting for the lesser of two evils does not preclude literally any other action you could want to do.
Anybody who votes for genocide Joe deserves Trump anyway.
You think Trump would do less Palestinian genocide? He was pretty open about being very pro-Israel and very anti-Palestine. Genocide Trump would be substantially worse for Gaza, and also Ukraine too. That’s what “lesser of two evils” means: yes, Biden is awful, but the alternative is worse.
Until you can show me an actionable alternative, I assume you support increased genocide of Palestinians and genocide of Ukrainians. Because it’s a binary choice, and refusal to choose against any option is tacit approval of every option.
Genocide Trump would be substantially worse for Gaza
Don’t believe you.
and also Ukraine too
Don’t believe you
Okay? So you’re uniformed or just illiterate? Your beliefs mean nothing to me, the evidence already suggests you’re a Russian State propagandist, or you’ve fallen for one.
Because it’s a binary choice
Actually it’s not, and I know much it makes you fascists seethe that you can’t force me to vote for you.
It’s very simple math. If you can’t grasp it, maybe you should change your username to just “box”.
So long as you continue to antagonize every leftist who disagrees with you, all you’ll ever have is impotent idealism. What exactly is your plan of action? Where is your grassroots, your revolution, if every mathematically and politically literate leftist is a fascist to you?
I’m substantially left of center. Who do you think the proletariat are? How do you expect to mobilize them? How do you get three hundred million people to march in unison, when you call them all genocidal fascists? If they are all fascists, how do you ever hope to win?
Except you’re compromised by propaganda, specifically designed to weaken the left (and the US) in order to empower Russian oligarchs. I don’t expect you to propose any actual action. I expect you to continue to insist that letting Putin’s puppet win will somehow rid the world of billionaire oligarchs.
Okay? So you’re uniformed or just illiterate? Your beliefs mean nothing to me, the evidence already suggests you’re a Russian State propagandist, or you’ve fallen for one.
See? You’re every bit as much a paranoid fascist as any MAGA chud; why should I be any more afraid of them than you?
It’s very simple math. If you can’t grasp it, maybe you should change your username to just “box”.
Fucking. Seethe. Fascist.
So long as you continue to antagonize every leftist who disagrees with you
Project harder, fascist.
What exactly is your plan of action?
What is yours? Round up all the spooky Russians into camps?
if every mathematically and politically literate leftist is a fascist to you?
You engage in fascism, you are a fascist. Leftism is wholly incompatible with saying things like “evidence already suggests you’re a Russian State propagandist”.
I’m substantially left of center.
That’s bleak.
How do you expect to mobilize them?
How do you? Witch hunts against “Russian State Propagandists”? Telling them ‘Your beliefs mean nothing to me’? Maintaining that anyone who disagrees with you is actually a treasonous foreigner?
when you call them all genocidal fascists?
I’m calling you a genocidal fascist, you arrogant shithead.
Except you’re compromised by propaganda, specifically designed to weaken the left (and the US) in order to empower Russian oligarchs.
Great “leftism” there bro, totally not raving fascist rhetoric.
Putin’s puppet
Why not just blame all your problems on ‘Woke’ at this point?
You still haven’t provided any actions. Deflect deflect deflect, always complain that everyone else isn’t doing enough. Call them liberals, fascists, declare they’re not pure enough. Other them to draw attention away from yourself. Emotional, blaming, divisive language, anything to distract from your own lack of actionable content.
No more deflection, no more distractions. You tell me, specifically, what your alternative action is. Tell me how it’s, materially, impossible to do while also voting against Project 2025.
Or, prove me right by continuing to deflect. Go silent, or say I’m not worth informing, or you don’t have to explain yourself to some [insert political slur here]. Show the readers actual praxis, or show them that all you have is deflection. Your choice.
No, their platforms are vastly different. You could argue that Jill Stein and Cornel West are splitting each other’s votes, because they are very similar, but they are both worlds apart from Genocide Joe and Orange Hitler.
The mathematics of First Past the Post elections drastically disincentivizes third parties, to the point of irrelevance. The winner will be one of the top two choices, so the only rational strategy (primarily in swing states, because of the fuckery that is the Electoral College) is voting against the worse of those two option.
Which is to say: when looking at third party options, would those voters be more likely to vote for the worst of the two main options, or the second worst of the two main options? Those are the only two candidates from which splitting votes is pragmatically relevant.
The evidence suggests to me that Orange Hitler is worse than Genocide Joe, since Orange Hitler would likely enable at least the same amount, if not more, Palestinian genocide; while also actively engaging in Ukrainian genocide; while also enabling Project 2025, which fundamentally threatens the thin veneer of democracy the US does have. I am not an accelerationist, I do not think that the probability of revolution it offers is high enough to counteract the probability of descending into fascism.
If you live in a deep red/blue state, then sure, vote third party so they get more visibility and funding, and encourage others in your state to do the same. But otherwise, vote for the second worst of the two main options, and don’t encourage those in swing states to vote third party.
Voting third party is splitting the vote. Give me ranked choice voting and I’ll never make a Neo-lib one of my top choices. But, until then, it’s functionally a binary choice. And right-wingers toe the line, and their line is literal fascism. Easy choice. Shitty, but easy.
Then why he fuck would they ever give you ranked choice?
That’s entirely beside the point. You think the fascists are more likely to give you ranked choice than the neo-libs? This line of thinking is nonsensical past superficial idealism. What’s your alternative, the greater evil? You think that’s going to magically make the ever-so-sightly-further-left corporate party turn progressive?
How’d that work after 2016? If the wake-up-call strategy was going to work, that would’ve been the time. And oh look, we got a geriatric neo-liberal. Fun.
I’m not going to wager a potential fascist dictatorship against the pipe dream that choosing not to vote is a cheat code that what, unlocks the secret actual Leftist candidate? What’s the praxis here? This is like sovcit levels of batshit copium fantasy.
Edit: Downvotes, but no practical alternatives. Idealistic circle jerking.
The least you can do is not vote for the status quo, but you won’t even do that.
Voting for anything but one of the top two parties is pointless, voting for the lesser evil is marginally better than voting for the greater evil, not voting is tacit approval of the greater evil. Please tell me, exactly, how does “not voting for the status quo” improve anything? Not rhetorical. I’m asking.
Oh boy, do I need to tell you something.
I need to tell you something: perfect is the mortal enemy of better. Both options are bad. One is objectively worse, if you don’t recognize that I assume you’re just part of Putin’s Geopolitik poisoning of the left, whether you know it or not.
Smugly refusing to participate doesn’t make the options better, it just makes it easier for the worse one to win.
Liberals are the most arrogant people on earth: you think reality bends to your will.
See, you’re just as fascist as Trump; neither of you actually respect other political positions, and both of you scapegoat all of your problems on a grand and sinister conspiracy by some scheming out group trying to ‘poison’ your superior in group. I wouldn’t vote for someone who says I only disagree with them because I’m part of the “Judaeo-Bulshervic conspiracy” and you people are not one iota less loathsome than that.
People who can’t make a realistic choice are far worse. When you represent an itty bitty fraction of the populace, you don’t have the right to dictate that policy be far-left. If you choose to not participate or to vote third party under FPTP, you are only hurting yourself by giving up what little influence you had. That’s just how democracy works.
Stop acting like a state propagandist then. Stop suggesting that neo-libs and fascists are identical just because they’re both bad. -10 > -100, even though both are negative.
Lack of nuance is evidence of idiocy or ulterior motives. I was being generous by assuming you had ulterior motives.
Voting for your interests isn’t “refusing to participate”. It’s the bare minimum in a democracy. It sounds like you’ve chosen to participate in a way which is counter to your own interests, and you’re calling out others for not following your flawed logic.
Look, I know that many of the candidates I vote for are long-shot candidates. It’s highly unlikely that they will win. But if I don’t vote for them, then I’m part of the problem. I’m helping to make it even less likely that they win.
Being part of the winning team feels good, but politics isn’t like football or hockey. This is an important civic responsibility.
Sure, if you live in a state where the result is obvious, then yes vote third party. But you know that they’re not going to win, and the only thing that accomplishes is visibility and possibly funding. You know that at the end of the day, the office will be won by one of the big two.
My opposition is to broadly advocating that for everyone. Too many people do live in swing states to be flippantly both-sidesing an election where Project 2025 is on the table.
I live in a blue state. Using that same logic, voting for Biden here is pointless, because the state’s going to go to Biden anyway.
Do you live in a swing state? Because I don’t. As far as I see it, voting third party won’t have any effect on the election, but might at least signal that I want change. It’s not like the popular vote matters in this country.
Do you really think that eh neo-libs are more likely than the fascists? Talk about “nonsensical past superficial idealism.”
Better than your idea. Also, I don’t care about ‘decorum’ and ‘civility’, so there’s not much difference between the two parties in terms of evil; the harm hasn’t exactly been reduced under Biden.
You really think submissively voting for the blue fascist every election is going to stave off dictatorship?
What’s yours?
Anybody who votes for genocide Joe deserves Trump anyway.
Significantly? Hah, no. Mathematically? Yes, absolutely. Extremely unlikely vs. “Oh, you wanted to keep voting? Lol”
Which is? I’m waiting.
Use every tool I have in the way it can be used. Voting for the lesser of two evils does not preclude literally any other action you could want to do.
You think Trump would do less Palestinian genocide? He was pretty open about being very pro-Israel and very anti-Palestine. Genocide Trump would be substantially worse for Gaza, and also Ukraine too. That’s what “lesser of two evils” means: yes, Biden is awful, but the alternative is worse.
Until you can show me an actionable alternative, I assume you support increased genocide of Palestinians and genocide of Ukrainians. Because it’s a binary choice, and refusal to choose against any option is tacit approval of every option.
deleted by creator
Well I got bad news for you, the odds are zero either way.
??? You even need me to tell you your own idea?
What are you doing other than voting?
Both evils are equivalent (and really they’re the same evil.)
He certainly wouldn’t do more. Also listen to yourself; you’re literally justifying supporting genocide.
Don’t believe you.
Don’t believe you
Yes, I’m well aware that people who say it mean that “the evil things I’m imagining Trump will do are worse than the actual things Biden is doing.”
Oh, we’re doing this now? “I assume you support eating babies and killing kittens, thus making me the more virtuous!”
Actually it’s not, and I know much it makes you fascists seethe that you can’t force me to vote for you.
If you vote for Genocide Joe Biden, you deserve every horror you imagine Trump will unleash on you.
Voting is one more thing than you.
Okay? So you’re uniformed or just illiterate? Your beliefs mean nothing to me, the evidence already suggests you’re a Russian State propagandist, or you’ve fallen for one.
It’s very simple math. If you can’t grasp it, maybe you should change your username to just “box”.
So long as you continue to antagonize every leftist who disagrees with you, all you’ll ever have is impotent idealism. What exactly is your plan of action? Where is your grassroots, your revolution, if every mathematically and politically literate leftist is a fascist to you?
I’m substantially left of center. Who do you think the proletariat are? How do you expect to mobilize them? How do you get three hundred million people to march in unison, when you call them all genocidal fascists? If they are all fascists, how do you ever hope to win?
Except you’re compromised by propaganda, specifically designed to weaken the left (and the US) in order to empower Russian oligarchs. I don’t expect you to propose any actual action. I expect you to continue to insist that letting Putin’s puppet win will somehow rid the world of billionaire oligarchs.
So much for mr “I’m using every tool”.
See? You’re every bit as much a paranoid fascist as any MAGA chud; why should I be any more afraid of them than you?
Fucking. Seethe. Fascist.
Project harder, fascist.
What is yours? Round up all the spooky Russians into camps?
You engage in fascism, you are a fascist. Leftism is wholly incompatible with saying things like “evidence already suggests you’re a Russian State propagandist”.
That’s bleak.
How do you? Witch hunts against “Russian State Propagandists”? Telling them ‘Your beliefs mean nothing to me’? Maintaining that anyone who disagrees with you is actually a treasonous foreigner?
I’m calling you a genocidal fascist, you arrogant shithead.
Great “leftism” there bro, totally not raving fascist rhetoric.
Why not just blame all your problems on ‘Woke’ at this point?
You still haven’t provided any actions. Deflect deflect deflect, always complain that everyone else isn’t doing enough. Call them liberals, fascists, declare they’re not pure enough. Other them to draw attention away from yourself. Emotional, blaming, divisive language, anything to distract from your own lack of actionable content.
No more deflection, no more distractions. You tell me, specifically, what your alternative action is. Tell me how it’s, materially, impossible to do while also voting against Project 2025.
Or, prove me right by continuing to deflect. Go silent, or say I’m not worth informing, or you don’t have to explain yourself to some [insert political slur here]. Show the readers actual praxis, or show them that all you have is deflection. Your choice.
No, their platforms are vastly different. You could argue that Jill Stein and Cornel West are splitting each other’s votes, because they are very similar, but they are both worlds apart from Genocide Joe and Orange Hitler.
The mathematics of First Past the Post elections drastically disincentivizes third parties, to the point of irrelevance. The winner will be one of the top two choices, so the only rational strategy (primarily in swing states, because of the fuckery that is the Electoral College) is voting against the worse of those two option.
Which is to say: when looking at third party options, would those voters be more likely to vote for the worst of the two main options, or the second worst of the two main options? Those are the only two candidates from which splitting votes is pragmatically relevant.
The evidence suggests to me that Orange Hitler is worse than Genocide Joe, since Orange Hitler would likely enable at least the same amount, if not more, Palestinian genocide; while also actively engaging in Ukrainian genocide; while also enabling Project 2025, which fundamentally threatens the thin veneer of democracy the US does have. I am not an accelerationist, I do not think that the probability of revolution it offers is high enough to counteract the probability of descending into fascism.
If you live in a deep red/blue state, then sure, vote third party so they get more visibility and funding, and encourage others in your state to do the same. But otherwise, vote for the second worst of the two main options, and don’t encourage those in swing states to vote third party.