Every online community demanding “civility” is confused and dangerous.
Sometimes blunt rejection is appropriate. Sometimes blunt rejection is necessary. Sometimes actual physical violence is necessary, in response to politely-phrased threats. There is no concept so horrifying that the English language cannot convey it gently. If a human moderator cannot be bothered to distinguish justified vitriol from unprovoked abuse, why bother relying on humans for moderation? If you remove cautious trolling assholes instead of their conversationally vulgar targets, guess who your community is for.
Demand and protect the ability to say “fuck off” when it matters.
Polite conversation has prerequisites. Polite conversation has limits. Once they are violated, pretending it’s all in good faith is what trolls want. Calling bullshit should be up-front, crystal clear, and safe from finger-wagging reprisal. And if you think that can’t extend to accusations about intent, you must imagine bad intentions simply do not exist.
There is no greater gift to trolls than announcing their sincerity must never be questioned.
Web visits are ever increasing. Many visitors are regular users, but we expect to encounter astroturfing marketers, coordinated activists for moral and immoral causes, state funded shills, and Large Language Models. But outside of an obvious paper trail in someone’s comment history, (self doubt + stupidity over malice).
If it’s possible to make a great clear point without getting angry, it may have a better shot at converting an idiot or someone yet-to-be-educated to your side. Other times you’ll waste your effort on bad faith actors. It’s a balance and nobody’s perfect. And in the right communities and at the right times, there’s no need to even really try. It’s all what we make of it, but adding this small shoutout to the potential benefits of civility.
Hanlon’s razor, while useful, absolutely cannot be used as a blanket policy these days, because many (if not most) bad actors will plead ignorance if you really logically nail them on something.
The discerning factor is their historical behavior. Basically, checking chat history to see if they try to rehash the same arguments with the same levels of (not actually) “good faith” and confusion over time.
Every online community demanding “civility” is confused and dangerous.
Sometimes blunt rejection is appropriate. Sometimes blunt rejection is necessary. Sometimes actual physical violence is necessary, in response to politely-phrased threats. There is no concept so horrifying that the English language cannot convey it gently. If a human moderator cannot be bothered to distinguish justified vitriol from unprovoked abuse, why bother relying on humans for moderation? If you remove cautious trolling assholes instead of their conversationally vulgar targets, guess who your community is for.
Demand and protect the ability to say “fuck off” when it matters.
Polite conversation has prerequisites. Polite conversation has limits. Once they are violated, pretending it’s all in good faith is what trolls want. Calling bullshit should be up-front, crystal clear, and safe from finger-wagging reprisal. And if you think that can’t extend to accusations about intent, you must imagine bad intentions simply do not exist.
There is no greater gift to trolls than announcing their sincerity must never be questioned.
Things people in the real world need to accept, numbers 1-45
Eloquently stated! Perhaps a caveat here or there, but well reasoned for sure.
I might add a couple points:
1: a healthy amount of self doubt can be helpful
2: try to remember good old Hanlon & his razor
Web visits are ever increasing. Many visitors are regular users, but we expect to encounter astroturfing marketers, coordinated activists for moral and immoral causes, state funded shills, and Large Language Models. But outside of an obvious paper trail in someone’s comment history, (self doubt + stupidity over malice).
If it’s possible to make a great clear point without getting angry, it may have a better shot at converting an idiot or someone yet-to-be-educated to your side. Other times you’ll waste your effort on bad faith actors. It’s a balance and nobody’s perfect. And in the right communities and at the right times, there’s no need to even really try. It’s all what we make of it, but adding this small shoutout to the potential benefits of civility.
/late night ramble I can clear up later 🌚
Hanlon’s razor, while useful, absolutely cannot be used as a blanket policy these days, because many (if not most) bad actors will plead ignorance if you really logically nail them on something.
The discerning factor is their historical behavior. Basically, checking chat history to see if they try to rehash the same arguments with the same levels of (not actually) “good faith” and confusion over time.