- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
In other news, water is slightly damp
Yeah but it’s a Tory admitting it.
Went beyond self defence before October was out…
Sadly these words on their own won’t be enough. Israel isn’t interested in what the international community thinks as it has demonstrated time and time again, especially when the US will back them in any calls for cessation.
But also, sadly, Hamas isn’t going to stop either. So the whole situation is rather fucked.
This will end in only one way: Israel annihilating Gaza and killing the majority of the population before it can declare victory over Hamas. The question is whether the international community (read the US) will say “job done well done they’re gone let’s move on” or they say “ok we were wrong you’re monsters and have gone too far”. But I think you can guess which outcome will win.
Israel is a rogue state. It is a disgrace for us to be supporting them.
Removed by mod
Went beyond self-defense in the 30s.
The 30s? 17 years before the state was even established?
Yep. Israeli militias used terrorism against Palestinians and the British starting at least that early. Those militias would go on to become Likud and crew.
I’m guessing you’re referring to Irgub, so please remind me when we started conflating the actions of historic terrorist organisations with current governments?
There is enough to criticise the current regime about without needing to skirt awfully close to white nationalist talking points which aim to suggest the state shouldn’t exist.
No no. Irgub and crew then went on to create Likud and their ilk. They are the current government. Anyway I guess if you wanna only count the actions of the modern Israeli state, it went beyond self-defense in 1948 with Israeli massacres like Deir Yassin.
BTW Israeli shouldn’t exist. That’s not white supremacism; it’s the belief that Apartheid ethnostates don’t have a place in the modern world.
The immoral disaster that is Gaza and the West Bank does not make one state a viable solution, regardless of who runs it.
You need to engage in the practical realities of the situation. Israel has existed for 80 years, so if it suddenly stopped existing, where do the people who have been born there over 3 generations go? That is as much a problem now as it was for Palestinians in 1947. Just because it was handled terribly then doesn’t mean we should repeat the situation. It also doesn’t satisfy the reasons for why Israel was created in the first place; to have a Jewish state where, in the worst of circumstances, non-Israeli Jews can flee to. And none of that justifies the continued blockade of Gaza, of illegal settlements, or killing tens of thousands of Palestinians.
The disestablishment of Israel is a white nationalist ideal. It is also a view held by other groups as well, but that doesn’t stop it being a white nationalist desire. Presuming you aren’t a nazi, you should consider why you are aligned on this.
There are so many options we could try before concluding that Israel shouldn’t exist. Jumping straight to the most extreme option is just displaying ignorance, or that you have ulterior motives.
Israel has existed for 80 years, so if it suddenly stopped existing, where do the people who have been born there over 3 generations go?
I never said they should go anywhere. Israel not existing simply means Israel, the Jewish state, not existing, not its people being driven off.
It also doesn’t satisfy the reasons for why Israel was created in the first place; to have a Jewish state where, in the worst of circumstances, non-Israeli Jews can flee to.
Something like that never should’ve existed in the first place. Jewish “right” of return is half the reason we got the current mess. There’s no reason Jews should have a country that’ll take them unconditionally for the same reason it’d be ridiculous to suggest the same thing if Roma people decided to build a state in India.
And no, I’m not a Nazi. I’m not sure when white supremacists coopted the idea that Israel shouldn’t exist given they tend to be supportive of Israel, but anyway it’s first and foremost an Arab and Palestinian idea.
I never said they should go anywhere. Israel not existing simply means Israel, the Jewish state, not existing, not its people being driven off.
Let’s think about this for a second. If one democratic state was created, and a government elected, given population differences alone and presumed voting along established political (ie religious) lines, you’d end up with a Jewish/Israeli government rather than a Muslim/Arab government.
Two independent, internationally recognised, and supported, nations is the only viable option.
Over a very long time powersharing may be an option, but that’s not now, or any time soon.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The intervention by Mr Wallace, who was defence secretary under three prime ministers until August, comes amid growing international pressure over the scale of civilian casualties.
Asked for his response to Mr Wallace’s article, Prime Minister Rishi Sunak stressed that Israel had the right to defend itself “against what was an appalling terrorist attack perpetrated by Hamas”.
Mr Wallace said he was not calling for a ceasefire with Hamas, but warned Israel needed to stop its “crude and indiscriminate method of attack” in the Gaza Strip.
In response to the former defence secretary’s remarks, Israeli government spokesman Eylon Levy told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme Mr Wallace’s choice of words were “unfortunate language”.
“What will radicalise a new generation is if the terrorists who burned people alive, and tortured children in front of their parents, and raped Israeli women and girls, literally get away with murder,” Mr Levy said.
In the article Mr Wallace described lessons learnt from the Troubles in Northern Ireland, and wrote that actions such as internment “taught us that a disproportionate response by the state can serve as a terrorist organisation’s best recruiting sergeant”.
The original article contains 770 words, the summary contains 188 words. Saved 76%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
