The infancy Gospel of Thomas was written well over one hundred years after Jesus had already left earth, in the second century. It claimed that Jesus performed random frivolous miracles for fun, when the Gospel of John said that the water to wine miracle was the first. We also don’t know who “Thomas the Israelite” is either.
It’s likely just something someone made up to try and give a narrative for Jesus’ childhood.
Jesus also likely cast the demons out of Mary Magdalene while in His thirties. Jesus wouldn’t need a female partner if He actually was truly God.
The Gospel of Mark probably dates from c. AD 66–70, Matthew and Luke around AD 85–90, and John AD 90–110. Despite the traditional ascriptions, all four are anonymous and most scholars agree that none were written by eyewitnesses.
What are you trying to prove? The infancy gospel of thomas was written likely around 180AD and even then, people were already calling it out as being a fake.
You clearly aren’t looking for an open-minded discussion by calling me “delusional”, anyway.
Imagine using such a piss poor method of finding truth for literally anything in your life besides religion.
Would you consider me delusional if I told you that I have an invisible dragon in my garage, and that he’s died several times, and has returned to Earth after each time?
Come on by my garage, the dragon’s right there. Though I guess I did forget to mention that he’s invisible.
(In case you weren’t aware, I’m referencing a famous Carl Sagan essay/short story from his book “The Demon-Haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark” and obviously he did a much better job laying it out than I ever could. Here is the text of the essay plus explanation: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage. By the way, incredible book that should be required reading for every adult human on the planet.)
Here is the conclusion of the essay where he does a pretty good job explaining what the point of it was:
Now, what’s the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there’s no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I’m asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.
I do ask you though, how would you prove God, if He was real? It’s not like you can say “if God is real, then ice would melt if exposed to heat”, could you? What proof would convince you, personally?
I don’t know. Scientific evidence that is reproducible would be a good start. The scientific method is the only method I’m aware of that we have to accurately explain and predict the natural processes surrounding us.
One thing I do know, if I were God and I wanted people to know I was real, I would know exactly how to do that. There wouldn’t be a question about which sect is correct, because I am all-knowing; I know exactly what it would take for each person.
But we also know that there are people who will not go to heaven, and instead will suffer for eternity in absence of God… So that means that there are people (quite a few) that God created knowing full well that they are “destined” to burn for eternity. Sorry, but that’s really fucked up.
The scientific method isn’t the only method. It cannot explain why the United Kingdom formed or why WWII happened.
I think it is a matter of perspective. Phil walked into a room and the kettle was boiling. Gregory was already in that room. Phil asked Gregory why the kettle was boiling. Gregory started talking about the heating element, electricity, how it heats the water, why water boils, etc. Then Bill walks in, and Phil asks Bill why the kettle is boiling. Bill responds with “because I wanted a cup of tea!”
Then, there is the historical method.
You say that there wouldn’t be a question over what sect is correct. But history records a man who lived around two thousand years ago who said he is “the only way”. He also claimed that he was God. Was he just a madman? Anyone can claim to be god. Well, no, because he had miracles to back him up. He was born of a virgin as well and ended up being executed, then somehow coming back to life, and was seen by many people. Then he was seen ascending into heaven. Not only does our past history point to this man, but his past history pointed to this man. There are writings predicting him that even outdate him. And it’s not like throwing spaghetti towards the wall, as those writings were being actively held to those people that held them - yet many of them who witnessed his miracles did not believe, one even betrayed him. And then after death, he sent his spirit to aid many people in telling the world about him. To this day, people count the year based on days since his birth.
What I tell you is good news. This man is not just a man. He is Jesus Christ. History points to him.
Salvation is a free gift from Jesus. Even the tiny amount of faith saves from Hell. And if you think this is still mean, that doesn’t disprove the reality. The fact your body will decay in the earth and you’ll probably be forgotten is a cruel fact which many don’t like, but it is reality.
Salvation is free. And it’s offered to everybody. No matter their race, age, gender or background.
The infancy Gospel of Thomas was written well over one hundred years after Jesus had already left earth, in the second century. It claimed that Jesus performed random frivolous miracles for fun, when the Gospel of John said that the water to wine miracle was the first. We also don’t know who “Thomas the Israelite” is either.
It’s likely just something someone made up to try and give a narrative for Jesus’ childhood.
Jesus also likely cast the demons out of Mary Magdalene while in His thirties. Jesus wouldn’t need a female partner if He actually was truly God.
When were Matthew, Mark, Luke and John written?
Here, let me save you a quick Google:
Oh look at that.
Lol ok bud. Whatever delusion makes you happy.
What are you trying to prove? The infancy gospel of thomas was written likely around 180AD and even then, people were already calling it out as being a fake.
You clearly aren’t looking for an open-minded discussion by calling me “delusional”, anyway.
Imagine using such a piss poor method of finding truth for literally anything in your life besides religion.
Would you consider me delusional if I told you that I have an invisible dragon in my garage, and that he’s died several times, and has returned to Earth after each time?
Do you have proof of this invisible dragon?
I’m glad you asked!
Come on by my garage, the dragon’s right there. Though I guess I did forget to mention that he’s invisible.
(In case you weren’t aware, I’m referencing a famous Carl Sagan essay/short story from his book “The Demon-Haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark” and obviously he did a much better job laying it out than I ever could. Here is the text of the essay plus explanation: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Dragon_in_My_Garage. By the way, incredible book that should be required reading for every adult human on the planet.)
Here is the conclusion of the essay where he does a pretty good job explaining what the point of it was:
I do ask you though, how would you prove God, if He was real? It’s not like you can say “if God is real, then ice would melt if exposed to heat”, could you? What proof would convince you, personally?
I don’t know. Scientific evidence that is reproducible would be a good start. The scientific method is the only method I’m aware of that we have to accurately explain and predict the natural processes surrounding us.
One thing I do know, if I were God and I wanted people to know I was real, I would know exactly how to do that. There wouldn’t be a question about which sect is correct, because I am all-knowing; I know exactly what it would take for each person.
But we also know that there are people who will not go to heaven, and instead will suffer for eternity in absence of God… So that means that there are people (quite a few) that God created knowing full well that they are “destined” to burn for eternity. Sorry, but that’s really fucked up.
The scientific method isn’t the only method. It cannot explain why the United Kingdom formed or why WWII happened.
I think it is a matter of perspective. Phil walked into a room and the kettle was boiling. Gregory was already in that room. Phil asked Gregory why the kettle was boiling. Gregory started talking about the heating element, electricity, how it heats the water, why water boils, etc. Then Bill walks in, and Phil asks Bill why the kettle is boiling. Bill responds with “because I wanted a cup of tea!”
Then, there is the historical method.
You say that there wouldn’t be a question over what sect is correct. But history records a man who lived around two thousand years ago who said he is “the only way”. He also claimed that he was God. Was he just a madman? Anyone can claim to be god. Well, no, because he had miracles to back him up. He was born of a virgin as well and ended up being executed, then somehow coming back to life, and was seen by many people. Then he was seen ascending into heaven. Not only does our past history point to this man, but his past history pointed to this man. There are writings predicting him that even outdate him. And it’s not like throwing spaghetti towards the wall, as those writings were being actively held to those people that held them - yet many of them who witnessed his miracles did not believe, one even betrayed him. And then after death, he sent his spirit to aid many people in telling the world about him. To this day, people count the year based on days since his birth.
What I tell you is good news. This man is not just a man. He is Jesus Christ. History points to him.
Salvation is a free gift from Jesus. Even the tiny amount of faith saves from Hell. And if you think this is still mean, that doesn’t disprove the reality. The fact your body will decay in the earth and you’ll probably be forgotten is a cruel fact which many don’t like, but it is reality.
Salvation is free. And it’s offered to everybody. No matter their race, age, gender or background.