here are some hyper-polluting individuals:

  • the Rolling Stones’ Boeing 767 (5,046 tonnes of CO2)
  • Lawrence Stroll (1,512 flights)
  • Thirty-nine jets linked to 30 Russian oligarchs – (30,701 tonnes of CO2)

relevant quote:

But I will say this, a movement can’t get along without a devil, and across the whole political spectrum there is a misogynistic tendency to choose a female devil, whether it’s Anita Bryant, Hillary Clinton, Marie Antoinette, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, or J.K. Rowling [or Taylor Swift]. And there’s always gonna be people who seize on any opportunity to be misogynistic. So I would advise trans people and our allies [or environmentalists] to keep in mind, that J.K. Rowling [Taylor Swift] is not the final boss of transphobia [anti-environmentalism]. She’s not our devil. The devil is the Republican Party, the Conservative Party.

—Natalie Wynn (emphasis and bracket text mine)

edit: if you can’t respond to this without using the c*nt expletive it is not helping your case lmao. mods are we okay with this? in any case, please don’t feed the trolls.

edit 2/FAQ: “but why did she threaten legal action against that college kid though?” still shitty, but refer to this comment for a good explanation of the context behind that decision.

She only threatened legal action since those memes started before when her flight movements got the attention of the right in an attempt to make her less credible of a voice speaking out against trump. And knowing how batshit insane trump cultists can be and how she’s basically the single most hated person of his base I’m not surprised that she feared for her security. Those records were public for years but the legal action only happened after someone created that meme and even fox news suddenly cared about plane emissions…

and another good comment

[…] For Swift, this is legitimate fear. I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced actual fear for your life, but it’s crippling, and it effects your psyche. To experience that on a daily basis because of an app? You bet your goddamn ass I’m going to talk to my lawyers about what my options are.

sources/timeline for the above:

  • gmtom@lemmy.world
    1001·
    9 months ago

    So you think it’s perfectly moral for the ultra wealthy to abuse the legal system to threaten and bully random people into submission because they are ruining the billionaires image?

    And again to reiterate, this is all publically available information, anyone who wants to track her jet can do so without the tracker that guy set up. She has no legal standing in her actions.

    • proleEnglish
      204·
      9 months ago

      So you think it’s perfectly moral for the ultra wealthy to abuse the legal system to threaten and bully random people into submission because they are ruining the billionaires image?

      Lol yeah bud, that’s what I said.

      Dude, I understand it’s public information. I understand that current law (probably rightfully) allows air traffic to be tracked, including private jets.

      I was simply doing something that you’re clearly incapable of, and empathizing (you remember empathy right?) with her position. A position that is markedly different than Musk’s, given that she receives a constant stream of legitimate death threats from people known to be violent; she has valid reason to fear for her life right now. I think I would probably do similar in such a situation.

      I don’t think it’s “wrong” for her to seek to do what she can to protect herself, and that includes this.

      The argument that “what they’re doing is legal” is pretty stupid too… I’m not even saying that I disagree that it should be legal, but how do you think laws change? The boundaries of them get tested in courts. This is not an abuse of the legal system, this is using it as intended.

      • gmtom@lemmy.world
        482·
        9 months ago

        Lol yeah bud, that’s what I said.

        That is in fact, literarily, what you are saying and what you are continuing to say in the rest of your comment.

        I was simply doing something that you’re clearly incapable of, and empathizing (you remember empathy right?) with her position.

        Oh wont somebody please empathise with the poor billionaires that are using the insane wealth to bully people for criticising their insane over-use of private jets.

        You guys are doing actual mental backflips to try and make Taylor Swift the victim here and its honestly just kind of sad.

        given that she receives a constant stream of legitimate death threats from people known to be violent

        And those people could find that same PUBLICALLY AVAILABLE information even without the guy’s tracker. So even if he did take it down, she is in literally no better position when it comes to stalkers.

        Literally all getting him to take down the website does is stop people from criticising how much she uses her jet, which hurts her image. Thats it.

        Like if she ACTUALLY cared that much about being tracked and her safety she could just charter private jets instead of owning her own. That way no one could track her. But she doesnt, because its not about her safety, its about her image.

        This is not an abuse of the legal system, this is using it as intended.

        Lmao swift stans are actually neurotic.

        • proleEnglish
          141·
          9 months ago

          Lmao swift stans are actually neurotic.

          FYI (because apparently this needs to be said), I’ve never once purposefully listened to a Taylor Swift song, and besides maybe two, I couldn’t even tell you if a pop song currently playing is her or not. That’s how little I care about this person’s art/music. My feelings toward her can be described as, at most, ambivalent. I’m definitely neurotic though, but that’s unrelated to this subject.

          All I’m doing is empathizing with another human being. Billionaires might be (for the most part, though I’m not sure I can imagine a more ethical way to become one than how she has) awful people, but they’re still people and they deserve basic human rights such as: not being in 24/7 fear for the lives of you and your loved ones because fascists are mad that she told young people to vote.

          I’m not even advocating for taking down the site or making the info no longer publicly available. I’m literally just putting myself in her shoes and rationalizing why she did what she did and understanding that I might have done the same.

          We seem to be having two completely different conversations here, which I guess I shouldn’t be surprised about given that you clearly can’t comprehend nuance. Your clear hatred for this woman is clouding your ability to be a decent human. Do better.

          • gmtom@lemmy.world
            201·
            9 months ago

            All I’m doing is empathizing with another human being.

            And all im saying is you can empathise with her without excusing her doing something immoral like harassing an innocent student.

            Also you keep talking about empathy but refuse to even consider empathising with the guy being harassed by a billionaire celebrity.

            • proleEnglish
              71·
              9 months ago

              Lol yeah dude that’s definitely “all you were saying”. You’re being such a reasonable interlocutor 🙄

              She’s not harassing an innocent student. I don’t think it really matters to her who created it. She is just doing the one thing she can do that would maybe give her a fraction of a feeling of security back into her life. Something that I bet most of us, including you, would do. A student being involved is irrelevant.

              And yeah, I do empathize with that guy as well. Assuming they didn’t create the app specifically for these types of people to be able to harass and endanger her more easily. Which he may have, I don’t really know all the details.

              Isn’t that crazy? Empathizing with both people in a situation? Wild right?

              Also, this pretending that it’s about giving her shit because of the environmental impact, give me a fucking break. Let’s not waste everyone’s time with that bullshit. Conservatives only “believe” in climate change, when they can use it as a cudgel against someone they feel threatened by. Actually a textbook fascist move (this isn’t a joke, it really is).

              • gmtom@lemmy.world
                171·
                9 months ago

                She’s not harassing an innocent student.

                and

                I do empathize with that guy as well

                are contradictory statements

                You are bending over backwards to excuse what she is doing. and its really just kind of sad.

                She is just doing the one thing she can do that would maybe give her a fraction of a feeling of security back into her life.

                Like i said last time. If she actually cared so much, she would just charter a jet instead. That would literally solve her whole problem, no one could track her and she would be perfectly safe. But you keep ignoring this point because it doesnt fit dumbass position you’ve argued yourself into where Taylor is just an innocent girl whose scared for her life 🥺 and shes just using her vast wealth to threaten people into doing what she wants because shes sooooo scaaaared.

                . Let’s not waste everyone’s time with that bullshit. Conservatives only “believe” in climate change

                And now you’re trying to claim everyone critical of her is a conservative? You dont think there are any leftists out here criticising the billionaire for being one the most directly polluting people on the planet?

                • proleEnglish
                  6·
                  9 months ago

                  She’s not harassing an innocent student.

                  and

                  I do empathize with that guy as well

                  are contradictory statements

                  No they’re not.

                  Empathizing with the guy who programmed it: An unprovoked, targeted campaign of rape threats, death threats and harassment (and the media/legal storm that follows) against another person, all because of some little thing you coded for fun in your free time (again, giving benefit of the doubt)? And then being dragged into all of this? Yeah, I empathize like a motherfucker .

                  You dont think there are any leftists out here criticising the billionaire for being one the most directly polluting people on the planet?

                  No, I think the only people who give a shit about this are right wing concern trolls.

                  Based on the way you’ve been spelling words, it would seem you’re not actually from the US. Perhaps if you lived here, you would understand the real and actual danger this kind of stochastic terrorism as we’re seeing it every single day. Taylor Swift is a figure who has just recently become a major target of hate and actual legitimate death/rape threats from the right because she encouraged young people to vote (no, I wish I was kidding). I don’t think she even endorsed a candidate.

                  The GOP is so terrified of her; this is a half-assed, stochastic call to violence against a young woman who has done nothing, and this tool has gone way far beyond basic “FAA transparency,” and into tool to target and potentially ruin the lives of people who do not deserve it.

                  (In case anyone didn’t see my previous comment: not only am I not a Taylor Swift fan, I don’t think I could name more than one or two songs. And if a song of hers came on the radio, I wouldn’t be able to know if it was her or not)

                  • SphereofWreckening@ttrpg.network
                    11·
                    9 months ago

                    I’m from the US, and I can tell you the biggest threat to the US are billionaires and their special interests.

                    Someone of the billionaire class like Taylor Swift does more environmental damage in a year than the average US citizen does through their entire lifetime. It is completely valid to call her out on this.

                    But please, continue to disingenuously call all those critical of Swift a right wing troll. Always easier than acknowledging the nuance of a topic.

                  • gmtom@lemmy.world
                    91·
                    9 months ago

                    No, I think the only people who give a shit about this are right wing concern trolls.

                    Then you’re wrong (to nobodies surprise)

                    Perhaps if you lived here, you would understand the real and actual danger this kind of stochastic terrorism

                    We literally had Jo Cox, a sitting MP, murdered due to stochastic terrorism, but go off like you know something.

                    this is a half-assed, stochastic call to violence against a young woman who has done nothing, and this tool has gone way far beyond basic “FAA transparency,” and into tool to target and potentially ruin the lives of people who do not deserve it

                    Except use private jets so much you’re co2 emissions just from private jet travel for a year is over 1,000x higher than an average person’s total yearly emissions.

                    And are you going to have the same bleeding heart response when you learn that this started out as a guy tracking Elons jet?

                  • intensely_human@lemm.ee
                    11·
                    9 months ago

                    Perhaps if you lived here, you would understand the real and actual danger this kind of stochastic terrorism as we’re seeing it every single day.

                    Modern leftist politics is basically an attempt to draw lines of guilt that don’t fit the legal definition of guilt. The leftist seeks to reach these lines of guilt further and further into the abstract, to justify further and further action against more and more seemingly innocent people. If guilt can be found somewhere in the thin web of causality emanating from a person, the leftist will treat it as if the person was caught red handed.

                    That is your political mission: to find ways to lay guilt on the heads of innocent people, by evoking ever-subtler forms of causal connection between a person’s actions and the various injustices of the world.

                    “Stochastic terrorism”. Differentiated from real terrorism by the lack of any involvement whatsoever in bombs, weapons, the spilling of blood, or even the intention to invoke fear. “Stochastic terrorism” is the latest in your political bent’s drive to invoke criminal law against those whom you simply don’t like.

      • Sethayy
        24·
        9 months ago

        There’s no way musk doesnt get nearly a billion death threats per day, but when your job is to be known by as many people as possible, it scales up the good and the bad.

        But if either of them are having a bad day I’m sure they can dry their tears with a couple hundred dollar bills and sue some more poor people into dust (completely legally!) to make themselves feel better

        • proleEnglish
          111·
          9 months ago

          I would bet my next paycheck that Taylor Swift gets at least one order of magnitude more death threats on a daily basis than Elon Musk. At least.

          Let’s just say there are certain demographics that tend to lash out in that manner, and they seem to overlap quite a bit with Musk fans.

          And yeah dude, I get it. They’re billionaires, it’s hard to empathize. I agree to a point that they should shut the fuck up and just wipe their tears away with $100 bills. But in this case, when we’re talking about legitimate threats against her life constantly, by people who have shown to be very capable of carrying out such threats, then I can start to see why she is doing what she’s doing. Just because she’s got money doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve to live a life free from that kind of fear.

          That’s all.

            • proleEnglish
              1·
              9 months ago

              Then go ahead and garnish it from George Soros

          • TSG_Asmodeus (he, him)@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            9 months ago

            I would bet my next paycheck that Taylor Swift gets at least one order of magnitude more death threats on a daily basis than Elon Musk. At least.

            I worked in video games, and at one company there were five game designers, one of them a woman, the rest men.

            I think she got a death/rape/etc threat once a week. One of the other designers had never even been messaged, and another designer was also the Community Manager. So, despite one guy being the literal face of the company, the single named woman on the design team got almost every single threat.

            She left the industry, which is worse for it, but I don’t think anyone thought she made the wrong choice.

          • intensely_human@lemm.ee
            2·
            9 months ago

            Let’s just say there are certain demographics that tend to lash out in that manner, and they seem to overlap quite a bit with Musk fans.

            Have you seen data on this? Or is this just a stereotype you’ve adopted to understand the world?