• jimbolauski@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    The problem with your analysis is who was targeted. Isereal Is doing bad things and a Jewish temple in Pennsylvania was targeted.

    If the black Panthers committed a bunch of crimes would it be permissible to put a burning cross at a church/mosque that supported the black panther movement?

    • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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      7 months ago

      Anti-semitism runs strong with the left. They’ll jump through hoops to justify killing Jews. They ignore why Israeli has to police Gaza and the West Bank. They call Jews, the indigenous population colonizers. That’s like calling Indians colonizers.

      When you remember the Nazi used the democrats to form their racial laws. It all makes sense.

      The answer from the left is simply to genocide the Jews. The Jews shouldn’t defend themselves.

      • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        I figure the reason peeps won’t reply is because he knows putting a burning cross in front of a church is a terrible thing but doesn’t want to admit swastikas on temples is just as bad.

        • PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
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          7 months ago

          Well, I feel like you’re missing the point.

          Israel is doing to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to Jews. Presumably, the synagogue supports Israel’s genocide of Palestinians (I have no idea, frankly. It matters…but not at the moment). And thus, if you accept the new interpretation of the swastika as a mark of hatred and the wish for genocide generally (rather than the mark of hatred and the wish for genocide of Jews specifically), then the swastika acts as a protest against Israeli violence against Palestinians by attempting to remind them and their supports of what was done to them.

          So, I’ll meet you half way: What would have to be done for a burning cross in front of a church to be warranted in the same way the swastika is warranted on a synagogue? Well, they would have to do more than “commit crimes”. They’d have to basically embody the ideals they hate. Just as Jews have become the Nazis for the Palestinians, the Black Panthers would have to terrorize communities, arbitrarily lynch its members, and generally violently enforce a sense of black superiority in those communities. And if a burning cross ended up in front of a black church in support of those atrocities, the symbol could be interpreted in the same way as the swastika on a synagogue.

          Both are obviously bad, but that’s the point. It should be grotesquely offensive.

          • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
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            7 months ago

            The black Panthers were involved in shootouts/turf wars with the black nantionalists, they kidnapped and tortured people, pouring boiling water on a member for 3 days before shooting him and dumping him in a swamp. Had female members savagely beat to keep them in line. Ambushed police officers, traffic narcotics…

            Does that meet your criteria where you would condone someone going full klansman and putting burning crosses at churches and mosques that supported the black Panthers?

            • PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
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              7 months ago

              No.

              They have to embody the ideals they hate towards another group.

              Look, it’s fine. I get that it’s hard to understand. That’s part of the appeal of the original article, where it redirects you back to the historical meaning of the swastika and insists that it’s meaning is fixed.

              • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
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                7 months ago

                No true scottsman, I get it. Ambushing police officers and murdering them doesn’t count as hate, ambushing black nantionalists and murdering them doesn’t count as hate, pouring boiling water on a person doesn’t count as hate.

                • PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com
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                  7 months ago

                  No, all of that definitely counts as hate.

                  It doesn’t count as black supremacist hate. So, yeah “no true scottsman”, but the entire argument hinges on what a nazi/white supremacist is. It’s not a fallacy in this case. Because there’s a difference between hate generally and a specific kind of hate.

                  • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
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                    7 months ago

                    Are you one of those liberals that thinks black people can’t be racists.

                    Ambushing white police officers certainly sounds racists, black nantionalism was part of the black panthers that’s certainly a racists movement.

        • Neuromancer@lemm.eeM
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          7 months ago

          Both are bad. The left doesn’t want admit the Palestinians are trying to kills Israelis. Israel is defending themselves. They can’t explain why Gaza and the West Bank are even policed by Israel. Could it be the Arabs tried to erase Israel?