Speaking at an event in London on Tuesday, Meta’s chief AI scientist Yann LeCun said that current AI systems “produce one word after the other really without thinking and planning”.
Because they struggle to deal with complex questions or retain information for a long period, they still “make stupid mistakes”, he said.
Adding reasoning would mean that an AI model “searches over possible answers”, “plans the sequence of actions” and builds a “mental model of what the effect of [its] actions are going to be”, he said.
wait, you mean the same models that supposed AI researchers were swearing had “glimmerings of intelligent reasoning” and “a complex world model” really were just outputting the most likely next word for a prompt? the current models are just fancy autocomplete but now that there’s a new product to sell, that one will be the real thing? and of course, the new models are getting pre-announced as revolutionary as interest in this horseshit in general takes a nosedive.
LeCun said it was working on AI “agents” that could, for instance, plan and book each step of a journey, from someone’s office in Paris to another in New York, including getting to the airport.
these must be the multi-agent models that AI fans won’t shut the fuck up about now that multi-modal LLMs are here and disappointing. is it just me or does the use case for this sound fucking stupid? like, there’s apps that do this already. this shit was solved already by application of the least-terrible surviving algorithms from the first AI boom. what the fuck is the point of re-solving travel planning, but now incredibly expensive and you can’t trust the results?
the thing that bothers me about that lecunn statement is that it’s another of those not-even-wrong fuckers with an implicit assumption: that the problem is not that it doesn’t have intelligence, just that the intelligence isn’t very advanced yet - “oh yeah it just didn’t think ahead! that’s why foot in mouth! it’s like your drunk friend at a party!”
which, y’know, is not the case. but they all fucking speak with that implicit foundation, as though the intelligence is proven fact instead of total suggestion (I wanted to say “conjecture”, but that isn’t the right word either)
these must be the multi-agent models that AI fans won’t shut the fuck up about now that multi-modal LLMs are here and disappointing. is it just me or does the use case for this sound fucking stupid?
it’s also the pitch I keep seeing from a number of places, including that rabbit or whatever the fuck thing? and, frankly, can we not? these goddamn things can barely parse sentences and keep context, and someone wants to tell me that a model use is for it to plan my travel? with visas and flight times and transfers? nevermind all the extra implications of accounting for real-world issues (e.g. political sensitivity), preferences in sight-seeing, data privacy considerations (visiting friends)…
like it’s just a gigantic fucking katamari ball of nope
someone wants to tell me that a model use is for it to plan my travel?
I don’t think any of these people have ever traveled. Honestly, I used to work for a company where the corporate travel people mostly lived in a small village in Germany, and their recommendations could be insane sometimes, but at least they knew what being a human was like.
bro, bro. i’m not going to answer your question about the obvious and glaring problems, but here read these three preprints that are very exciting about the possibilities!!! no i can’t just explain in my own words what they say. but if you cannot refute the mathematics (you can tell it’s real maths because it’s got squiggly symbols in it) then you must acquit
This is yet another example of people calling the shots here being completely detached from reality of an average person and bereft of imagination.
Surely the plebs would all want to have an underpaid secretary that plans your private jet trips for you so that you don’t have to interact with anyone. It’s the dream! I can’t imagine a life without that, surely they need it too!
It is not just you who think it is stupid as many do, but I think it is more than safe to say that not using an AI agent in the future, while possible, will be like trying to function in our world without a smartphone. Possible of course, but you are at a disadvantage. I personally look forward to my AI agent booking travel and being as thorough and then some as I could ever hope to be. I look forward to an AI agent to live inside my development environment and help me get things done and spend less time trying to fix issues. There are so many things that AI is going to be amazing at, and those who embrace will reap the benefits.
lol, has that person ever even posted here? (just realized that’s actually hard to tell)
imagine the headspace it takes to just randomly do a driveby tut-tut because of perceived impropriety just because you yourself have never faced a lick of pushback to bullshit. amazing, 10/10, no notes
they had exactly one (relatively upvoted) post here in the last 4 months before they decided to use the reports system as… a weird one-way DM? an attempt to get me pulled into an urgent meeting about my attitude (good fucking luck)? like even if they were hoping someone else would read it, the fuck kind of result did they expect from “not very mature tbh”?
also, a “posts to this instance only” view on profiles is a brilliant feature idea as a moderation tool
I was thinking about that (the view) when I made that comment, and lol at it not existing in mod
I’m on a coffee run quickly but once I stop, I’ll make a subthread collating the ideas that have been had so far (just to track/centralise for easy view)
I think it is more than safe to say that not using an AI agent in the future, while possible, will be like trying to function in our world without a smartphone. Possible of course, but you are at a disadvantage
My friend, I think you have it backwards.
AI use vs genuine human interaction is going to be like getting a machine made t-shirt at Walmart for $5 vs hiring a tailor. AI is going to give you a markedly lower quality job for much cheaper, and that’s going to be its utility.
…will be like trying to function in our world without a smartphone.
As an ADHD and LightPhone enjoyer, It really isn’t that hard. You just have to live life with the forethought that the ancients employed way back in 2004. The gravest problem I’ve faced is that I’ve wasted a shit-ton of potential Jimmy John’s loyalty points on account of not having a QR code reader.
Sure it is possible, but you are at a disadvantage. If you decide to go eat somewhere, you cannot look into while out. If you are at a store and want to look up an ingredient or a price elsewhere you cannot. If you need navigate to somewhere. There are so many useful things having a smartphone that without is simply a disadvantage.
“There are so many things that AI is going to be amazing at, and those who embrace will reap the benefits” I’m old enough to remember being told *exactly this* about NFTs, but good luck, I guess
True, but the same was said about smartphones, MP3 players, email and so much more. Heck even the Internet was claimed a fad. That said all of the things that really took off, had a pattern. Slow initial development before it really saw big growth. AI is on that exponential trend too, while NFTs trend was down from the get go.
AI is going to change the world good and bad in a major way and in ways no one can truly predict. AI being is the future as it will be at the root of almost everything… Sort of feels like earth is about to have a digital Cambrian explosion. That is what the data is pointing at least.
@Immersive_Matthew@pikesley MP3s, email, the internet etc all WORKED from the very first day. They worked exactly as they continue to work now, just a bit more slowly.
This bullshit “AI” doesn’t work. That’s the difference.
Imagine someone invented email which sometimes got delivered and sometimes didn’t, and sometimes had the right content and sometimes didn’t and sometimes went to the wrong person even when it had the right address? That’s your metaphor.
Why do you think AI does not work? I am using it daily to help write code for my top rated VR app. Sure it makes mistakes, but overall it is utterly amazing. I use the paid ChatGPT4 and a Claude.
@Immersive_Matthew
There are examples in the news literally every day of “AI” making horrible mistakes and creating wildly inaccurate fake information.
It’s not “AI” in any real sense.
You’re using it to autocomplete code, a task which is highly suited to this kind of “AI” and it’s been trained on billions of lines of code and it still makes lots of mistakes. It’s in no way intelligent, not even 1 per cent of the way to intelligent.
Given the propensity for LLMs to make profound mistakes by design due to their inability to discern context - something which the chucklefucks at OpenAI, Facebook, Google, etc. are not going to solve any time soon - it’d be pretty humiliating to only be as thorough as they are. Might I suggest paying more attention to what you’re doing?
wait, you mean the same models that supposed AI researchers were swearing had “glimmerings of intelligent reasoning” and “a complex world model” really were just outputting the most likely next word for a prompt? the current models are just fancy autocomplete but now that there’s a new product to sell, that one will be the real thing? and of course, the new models are getting pre-announced as revolutionary as interest in this horseshit in general takes a nosedive.
these must be the multi-agent models that AI fans won’t shut the fuck up about now that multi-modal LLMs are here and disappointing. is it just me or does the use case for this sound fucking stupid? like, there’s apps that do this already. this shit was solved already by application of the least-terrible surviving algorithms from the first AI boom. what the fuck is the point of re-solving travel planning, but now incredibly expensive and you can’t trust the results?
So, if anyone is keeping score, the promise of Artificial Intelligence has descended from “the computers on Star Trek” to “spicy ticket-booking”.
Ah yes, “getting to the airport”, one of the great unsolved challenges in computing.
in order to solve the Traveling Salesman Problem, the first step is to use a machine model to confirm the user isn’t a salesman
the thing that bothers me about that lecunn statement is that it’s another of those not-even-wrong fuckers with an implicit assumption: that the problem is not that it doesn’t have intelligence, just that the intelligence isn’t very advanced yet - “oh yeah it just didn’t think ahead! that’s why foot in mouth! it’s like your drunk friend at a party!”
which, y’know, is not the case. but they all fucking speak with that implicit foundation, as though the intelligence is proven fact instead of total suggestion (I wanted to say “conjecture”, but that isn’t the right word either)
it’s also the pitch I keep seeing from a number of places, including that rabbit or whatever the fuck thing? and, frankly, can we not? these goddamn things can barely parse sentences and keep context, and someone wants to tell me that a model use is for it to plan my travel? with visas and flight times and transfers? nevermind all the extra implications of accounting for real-world issues (e.g. political sensitivity), preferences in sight-seeing, data privacy considerations (visiting friends)…
like it’s just a gigantic fucking katamari ball of nope
I don’t think any of these people have ever traveled. Honestly, I used to work for a company where the corporate travel people mostly lived in a small village in Germany, and their recommendations could be insane sometimes, but at least they knew what being a human was like.
bro, bro. i’m not going to answer your question about the obvious and glaring problems, but here read these three preprints that are very exciting about the possibilities!!! no i can’t just explain in my own words what they say. but if you cannot refute the mathematics (you can tell it’s real maths because it’s got squiggly symbols in it) then you must acquit
if you cannot refute, you must not compute
> suggestion
I’d go for “hopium”.
This is yet another example of people calling the shots here being completely detached from reality of an average person and bereft of imagination.
Surely the plebs would all want to have an underpaid secretary that plans your private jet trips for you so that you don’t have to interact with anyone. It’s the dream! I can’t imagine a life without that, surely they need it too!
It is not just you who think it is stupid as many do, but I think it is more than safe to say that not using an AI agent in the future, while possible, will be like trying to function in our world without a smartphone. Possible of course, but you are at a disadvantage. I personally look forward to my AI agent booking travel and being as thorough and then some as I could ever hope to be. I look forward to an AI agent to live inside my development environment and help me get things done and spend less time trying to fix issues. There are so many things that AI is going to be amazing at, and those who embrace will reap the benefits.
“It’s garbage that generates giant rat dicks now, but I can’t wait to hand my life over to it tomorrow!”
shut the fuck up
a note to our federated guests: nothing about this move was smart
lol, has that person ever even posted here? (just realized that’s actually hard to tell)
imagine the headspace it takes to just randomly do a driveby tut-tut because of perceived impropriety just because you yourself have never faced a lick of pushback to bullshit. amazing, 10/10, no notes
they had exactly one (relatively upvoted) post here in the last 4 months before they decided to use the reports system as… a weird one-way DM? an attempt to get me pulled into an urgent meeting about my attitude (good fucking luck)? like even if they were hoping someone else would read it, the fuck kind of result did they expect from “not very mature tbh”?
also, a “posts to this instance only” view on profiles is a brilliant feature idea as a moderation tool
Can I put you aside for an urgent meeting about your attitude?
It’s great, please continue, you’re doing (acausal robot) god’s work out here.
I was thinking about that (the view) when I made that comment, and lol at it not existing in mod
I’m on a coffee run quickly but once I stop, I’ll make a subthread collating the ideas that have been had so far (just to track/centralise for easy view)
that’s a great idea! I’m hoping I can grab enough dev time this week to get our fork in better shape
Emotions got the better of you?
My friend, I think you have it backwards.
AI use vs genuine human interaction is going to be like getting a machine made t-shirt at Walmart for $5 vs hiring a tailor. AI is going to give you a markedly lower quality job for much cheaper, and that’s going to be its utility.
Machine made t-shirt, with extra fingers.
Besides, isn’t most clothes just made by poor people in poor conditions instead of being made with machines? Just like AI.
So you only use handmade not machine made products?
Don’t try to misrepresent what I said. Buying a cheap machine made shirt is hardly the equivalent of needing a smart phone to function in society.
All products are handmade. Nothing is made only with machines.
As an ADHD and LightPhone enjoyer, It really isn’t that hard. You just have to live life with the forethought that the ancients employed way back in 2004. The gravest problem I’ve faced is that I’ve wasted a shit-ton of potential Jimmy John’s loyalty points on account of not having a QR code reader.
Sure it is possible, but you are at a disadvantage. If you decide to go eat somewhere, you cannot look into while out. If you are at a store and want to look up an ingredient or a price elsewhere you cannot. If you need navigate to somewhere. There are so many useful things having a smartphone that without is simply a disadvantage.
@Immersive_Matthew @self have you bumped your head?
Is this what they call projection?
@Immersive_Matthew
“There are so many things that AI is going to be amazing at, and those who embrace will reap the benefits” I’m old enough to remember being told *exactly this* about NFTs, but good luck, I guess
True, but the same was said about smartphones, MP3 players, email and so much more. Heck even the Internet was claimed a fad. That said all of the things that really took off, had a pattern. Slow initial development before it really saw big growth. AI is on that exponential trend too, while NFTs trend was down from the get go.
AI is going to change the world good and bad in a major way and in ways no one can truly predict. AI being is the future as it will be at the root of almost everything… Sort of feels like earth is about to have a digital Cambrian explosion. That is what the data is pointing at least.
@Immersive_Matthew @pikesley MP3s, email, the internet etc all WORKED from the very first day. They worked exactly as they continue to work now, just a bit more slowly.
This bullshit “AI” doesn’t work. That’s the difference.
Imagine someone invented email which sometimes got delivered and sometimes didn’t, and sometimes had the right content and sometimes didn’t and sometimes went to the wrong person even when it had the right address? That’s your metaphor.
Why do you think AI does not work? I am using it daily to help write code for my top rated VR app. Sure it makes mistakes, but overall it is utterly amazing. I use the paid ChatGPT4 and a Claude.
@Immersive_Matthew
There are examples in the news literally every day of “AI” making horrible mistakes and creating wildly inaccurate fake information.
It’s not “AI” in any real sense.
You’re using it to autocomplete code, a task which is highly suited to this kind of “AI” and it’s been trained on billions of lines of code and it still makes lots of mistakes. It’s in no way intelligent, not even 1 per cent of the way to intelligent.
@Immersive_Matthew You wanna buy some of these Beanie Babies?
lol what the fuck, you like this dumb bullshit? must suck to be you
fully pudding brained take
That’s not the flex you think it is.
It is not even a flex though? Did you misread perhaps?
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Given the propensity for LLMs to make profound mistakes by design due to their inability to discern context - something which the chucklefucks at OpenAI, Facebook, Google, etc. are not going to solve any time soon - it’d be pretty humiliating to only be as thorough as they are. Might I suggest paying more attention to what you’re doing?