Adding my opinion as someone who is eating meat: I only buy organic meat (and eggs, milk, …) from my region. It’s obviously much more expensive than mass produced meat, but I simply buy less and add more vegetables to counteract that.
Now comes the important part: By doing this, I support farmers who enable their animals to have a good life (and I know these animals have a good life because I know the farms and the farmers). If noone bought organic products these animals wouldn’t have been able to live a happier life but would instead be stuck in a mass production or not get the chance of experiencing life at all.
The thing with animal autonomy is that while it is the best outcome it’s simply not realistic - people don’t care for animals for free, and many animals cannot care for themselves anymore after millennia of breeding them to amplify “desirable” traits. Chicken for example, when not locking them into a save area for a single night they’re usually gone - they’re too slow and too bad at flying nowadays to escape from a fox (the result of fully focusing on how many eggs they lay and how much they weigh for millenia of breeding).
The closest we currently have to autonomy are organic farms where they at least can roam around while “fulfilling their function” - whether that’s getting butchered one day for meat, or giving milk, or both, or giving eggs or wool etc. depends on the animal of course. For example when they get butchered at the end one could argue that they traded some of their lifetime for a happy life - is that even different from us humans? Our lifes don’t get ended earlier, but we constantly trade lifetime for money and money for things that enable a happy life. We also sadly don’t get a happy life for nothing, and while it’d be the best outcome if we one day wouldn’t need to do anything we don’t like anymore, it’s simply not realistic (yet).
Would you genuinely be ok with living the life those animals do? Would you genuinely be ok with aliens that make humans look like chickens in terms of intelligince treating us the way we treat chickens or other farmed animals?
I would 100% choose this over a life as a factory worker (without breaks) and over no life at all, yes. It’s not perfect but certainly better than the two alternatives offered.
Thank you for your mindfulness and letting the animals you eat have the nicest possible life 🤗 I’m a vegan, but when I really get the cravings for protein (plants simply don’t have any) I go on the internet and find cats looking to be rehomed, then after pampering them for a few weeks, I butcher and eat them. It’s a lot more ethical than supermarket meat, the cats always seem so happy and content knowing they give their lives for my continued survival! Of course I make sure to ethically and painlessly kill them by beating their skull in with a baseball bat, in case you were concerned. They have only one very bad day in their entire life, ha ha!
Hey, how do you like the taste of cat compared to say rabbit or chicken.i kill alot cats in the bush for conservation efforts but they never really looked too tasty to me.maybe because they are wild instead of domestic.what ya reakon?
Trolling? Just because I dared to share my culinary culture, passed down through many generations of animal lovers, on your stupid vegan website? This sort of toxicity is why no one respects you vegans. I’m going to eat twice as many ethically sourced cat burgers now, maybe you can use this as an opportunity to think about how to get people on your side instead of just being an asshole on your (vegan) high horse 🤣😂🖕
I’m sorry, I’ll try harder next time. Will you find it in your heart to forgive me, like the ethically raised cows forgive ethical farmers for putting them out on an empty pasture for a couple of years, branding them, regularly inseminating them to keep them producing milk, and then killing them at the ripe old age of about a fifth of their natural life span? A fate, we will all admit, that is much better than simply not existing in the first place. Honestly, I’d take their place myself if I could, if it meant an ethical meat eater didn’t need to pass up their daily steak.
I’m saying you’re bad at this because you keep taking the bait. Don’t lock in so hard on the one approach, it blinds you to what the other commenter is doing.
Sadly you missed a very important point in your argumentation: Cats are being kept as pets. They usually have a good life for simply being cute and easy to handle.
Keeping them to eat them is a downgrade (nothing changes except that they live shorter - assuming you butcher them in a normal way, not with a baseball bat which might cause a slower and painful death). When doing nothing, that downgrade doesn’t exist, so on average the life of cats will become better.
Pigs for example either are being kept in mass-production factories (really the most fitting word for those, animals there only exist for their materials) or they are being kept in a more ethical way where they can go outside whenever they want, get better food, can run around, are much healthier, … .
This is an upgrade (they live longer, healthier and happier). When doing nothing, that upgrade doesn’t exist (as commonly), so on average the life of pigs will become worse.
As customers we have the power to show the mass production industry that we don’t agree with their actions - you also do that by not buying any meat / milk / eggs / … . But while this decreases the amount of miserable lifes it does not offer an alternative - animals either get born under those conditions or not at all. Meanwhile when supporting farmers who care about their animals, you offer an alternative - farm animals finally get to live a happy life.
Hold on, let me get my B12 deficient brain around this with a basic hypothetical example…
100 cows are killed each year at an evil factory farm for 10 people. One person suddenly develops a conscience and decides to change their lifestyle by not eating their cow products, switching to a purely iceberg lettuce based diet, reducing demand by 10% outright and causing 10 fewer cows to be bred for the evil factory farm.
But actually this is WORSE than someone developing only a bit of a conscience and deciding that instead of giving the evil factory farm money for 10 dead cows a year, they’ll give their farmer best friend who they know personally and trust and who gives the cows pedicures and lets them drift away quietly in their sleep money for 10 dead cows a year? And this is better and more moral because in this world it is a universal constant that a set amount of cows must be killed each year, and by abstaining from meat entirely you are giving the evil factory farm a greater proportion of the cosmically allocated dead cow quota?
Because if so, this is great news for my ethical cat steak business.
Instead of 10 in prison it’s either 1 (or even 10 if you don’t reduce the amount of meat you eat) with a good life or 0 with a good life.
But we’re talking around each other, the question we’re actually discussing, and where our fundamental disagreement lies, is: Is a happy life with an earlier death better than no life at all? If you don’t say so that’s valid, I’m not stopping you from being vegan.
Not existing, or spending your entire short life “happily” being literal livestock existing only to have products extracted from you on the 0.00001% of farms that both don’t abuse their animals (more than is “necessary” for livestock farming) and stimulate them beyond dropping them in a field where they can catch a glimpse of a car every so often.
Congratulations, you made it into /all.
Adding my opinion as someone who is eating meat: I only buy organic meat (and eggs, milk, …) from my region. It’s obviously much more expensive than mass produced meat, but I simply buy less and add more vegetables to counteract that.
Now comes the important part: By doing this, I support farmers who enable their animals to have a good life (and I know these animals have a good life because I know the farms and the farmers). If noone bought organic products these animals wouldn’t have been able to live a happier life but would instead be stuck in a mass production or not get the chance of experiencing life at all.
Looking forward to your thoughts on this :)
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The thing with animal autonomy is that while it is the best outcome it’s simply not realistic - people don’t care for animals for free, and many animals cannot care for themselves anymore after millennia of breeding them to amplify “desirable” traits. Chicken for example, when not locking them into a save area for a single night they’re usually gone - they’re too slow and too bad at flying nowadays to escape from a fox (the result of fully focusing on how many eggs they lay and how much they weigh for millenia of breeding).
The closest we currently have to autonomy are organic farms where they at least can roam around while “fulfilling their function” - whether that’s getting butchered one day for meat, or giving milk, or both, or giving eggs or wool etc. depends on the animal of course. For example when they get butchered at the end one could argue that they traded some of their lifetime for a happy life - is that even different from us humans? Our lifes don’t get ended earlier, but we constantly trade lifetime for money and money for things that enable a happy life. We also sadly don’t get a happy life for nothing, and while it’d be the best outcome if we one day wouldn’t need to do anything we don’t like anymore, it’s simply not realistic (yet).
Would you genuinely be ok with living the life those animals do? Would you genuinely be ok with aliens that make humans look like chickens in terms of intelligince treating us the way we treat chickens or other farmed animals?
I would 100% choose this over a life as a factory worker (without breaks) and over no life at all, yes. It’s not perfect but certainly better than the two alternatives offered.
Thank you for your mindfulness and letting the animals you eat have the nicest possible life 🤗 I’m a vegan, but when I really get the cravings for protein (plants simply don’t have any) I go on the internet and find cats looking to be rehomed, then after pampering them for a few weeks, I butcher and eat them. It’s a lot more ethical than supermarket meat, the cats always seem so happy and content knowing they give their lives for my continued survival! Of course I make sure to ethically and painlessly kill them by beating their skull in with a baseball bat, in case you were concerned. They have only one very bad day in their entire life, ha ha!
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Hey, how do you like the taste of cat compared to say rabbit or chicken.i kill alot cats in the bush for conservation efforts but they never really looked too tasty to me.maybe because they are wild instead of domestic.what ya reakon?
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Pool’s closed due to… cat blood? Seriously, this is the kind of trolling I’d try when I was 12. Up your game or shoo, this is just embarrassing.
Trolling? Just because I dared to share my culinary culture, passed down through many generations of animal lovers, on your stupid vegan website? This sort of toxicity is why no one respects you vegans. I’m going to eat twice as many ethically sourced cat burgers now, maybe you can use this as an opportunity to think about how to get people on your side instead of just being an asshole on your (vegan) high horse 🤣😂🖕
You really aren’t very good at this.
The votes disagree.
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3 months longer than you actually, as you can see when you click on our profiles and look at our account age.
But I fail to see the relevance of the question?
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I’m sorry, I’ll try harder next time. Will you find it in your heart to forgive me, like the ethically raised cows forgive ethical farmers for putting them out on an empty pasture for a couple of years, branding them, regularly inseminating them to keep them producing milk, and then killing them at the ripe old age of about a fifth of their natural life span? A fate, we will all admit, that is much better than simply not existing in the first place. Honestly, I’d take their place myself if I could, if it meant an ethical meat eater didn’t need to pass up their daily steak.
I’m saying you’re bad at this because you keep taking the bait. Don’t lock in so hard on the one approach, it blinds you to what the other commenter is doing.
(Debian > Arch)
Sadly you missed a very important point in your argumentation: Cats are being kept as pets. They usually have a good life for simply being cute and easy to handle.
Keeping them to eat them is a downgrade (nothing changes except that they live shorter - assuming you butcher them in a normal way, not with a baseball bat which might cause a slower and painful death). When doing nothing, that downgrade doesn’t exist, so on average the life of cats will become better.
Pigs for example either are being kept in mass-production factories (really the most fitting word for those, animals there only exist for their materials) or they are being kept in a more ethical way where they can go outside whenever they want, get better food, can run around, are much healthier, … .
This is an upgrade (they live longer, healthier and happier). When doing nothing, that upgrade doesn’t exist (as commonly), so on average the life of pigs will become worse.
As customers we have the power to show the mass production industry that we don’t agree with their actions - you also do that by not buying any meat / milk / eggs / … . But while this decreases the amount of miserable lifes it does not offer an alternative - animals either get born under those conditions or not at all. Meanwhile when supporting farmers who care about their animals, you offer an alternative - farm animals finally get to live a happy life.
Hold on, let me get my B12 deficient brain around this with a basic hypothetical example…
100 cows are killed each year at an evil factory farm for 10 people. One person suddenly develops a conscience and decides to change their lifestyle by not eating their cow products, switching to a purely iceberg lettuce based diet, reducing demand by 10% outright and causing 10 fewer cows to be bred for the evil factory farm.
But actually this is WORSE than someone developing only a bit of a conscience and deciding that instead of giving the evil factory farm money for 10 dead cows a year, they’ll give their farmer best friend who they know personally and trust and who gives the cows pedicures and lets them drift away quietly in their sleep money for 10 dead cows a year? And this is better and more moral because in this world it is a universal constant that a set amount of cows must be killed each year, and by abstaining from meat entirely you are giving the evil factory farm a greater proportion of the cosmically allocated dead cow quota?
Because if so, this is great news for my ethical cat steak business.
Instead of 10 in prison it’s either 1 (or even 10 if you don’t reduce the amount of meat you eat) with a good life or 0 with a good life.
But we’re talking around each other, the question we’re actually discussing, and where our fundamental disagreement lies, is: Is a happy life with an earlier death better than no life at all? If you don’t say so that’s valid, I’m not stopping you from being vegan.
Not existing, or spending your entire short life “happily” being literal livestock existing only to have products extracted from you on the 0.00001% of farms that both don’t abuse their animals (more than is “necessary” for livestock farming) and stimulate them beyond dropping them in a field where they can catch a glimpse of a car every so often.
Hmm hmm hmm. What a conundrum.
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On vegancirclejerk, the trolling is a core part of the experience. Walked into that myself when I first saw the community.
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