On Wednesday, Pope Francis arrived in Lisbon to participate in World Youth Day (WYD) and meet with Portuguese President Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa.
During a speech at the Belem cultural center, he lamented that the European countries do not offer “creative ways” to end the military conflict between Russia and Ukraine.
The Argentine Pope also stressed the need to respect the original mission of the European Union (EU).
In front of the authorities, diplomatic corps and members of civil society, Francis recalled that the 2007 reform of the European Union states that this integration bloc “has the purpose of promoting peace, its values and the well-being of its peoples.”
The Lisbon Treaty goes further “by stating that in its relations with the rest of the world… it will contribute to peace, security, sustainable development of the planet, solidarity and mutual respect among peoples, free trade and justice, the eradication of poverty, and the protection of human rights,” Francis recalled.
Europe’s original mission was “to open paths for dialogue and inclusion, developing a peace diplomacy that extinguishes conflicts and alleviates tensions, capable of capturing the slightest signs of détente and reading between the most crooked lines,” he added.
Pope Francis then asked Europe, “Where are you sailing, if you do not offer peace processes, creative paths to end the war in Ukraine and so many conflicts that bloody the world?”
It’s difficult to build lasting peace when the aggressor does not want it. Sure the Russians are open to peace in their terms, but imo that is just escalate things again in few years to come.
Don’t get me wrong, EU is in big part a peace project. That however shouldn’t happen at just any cost. Free, independent and territorially whole Ukraine is important for the future peace, Ukraine, Europe and even good for Russia.
How would it be good for Russia?
Carving up Ukraine’s territorial integrity is breeding grounds for further border conflicts. Do you think Ukrainians are going to simply sit and quietly forget about it if Russia steals their territory, or will it remain an open wound that provokes them to retaliate in any way they can for decades to come?
Well I think that ship has largely sailed, unfortunately. At this point I would think Russia is incentivized to hold as much territory as they can. I don’t see it being returned really changing the relationship or border situation too substantially.
You don’t think relations between Russia and Ukraine will not mend sooner, in historical terms, if this war ends in a white peace, rather than with Russia keeping Ukrainian territories? Being invaded will remain a traumatic memory for most Ukrainians for the rest of their lives, but forever losing a chunk of their country will contribute to keeping that wound open and will favor nationalist, anti-Russian rhetoric in their politics, which will absolutely remove the possibility of ever initiating a new chapter in their relationship with Russia.
Well, this is one possible outcome, although not necessary. For example Finland was able to patch it’s relations with Russia after 2 brutal wars with tens of thousands of casualties and a huge chunk of lost land. Of course the friendly relations were somewhat forced and a survival mechanism for a small country in Cold War era (Russia had a hold on Finland while Finland navigated in it’s position to gain as much political freedoms it could) but it genuinely got rid of open hostilities between the countries.
Even after the cold war ended and up to today, majority of the population in Finland has not had a revanchist opinion towards Russians, albeit they were not fully trusted either. Finns learned to live as neighbors and in peace while preparing just in case.
So while it is probably likely that loosing land would cause a negative nationalistic turn in Ukraine and grievances towards Russia, it’s not set in stone. Actually I am way more concerned that if Russia can claim a victory, they expand their delirious imperial/quasifascist project and escalate the conflict with the west further.
You may be right, it’s hard to say. But even then, the benefits of stolen land are substantial and indefinite. I think it’s a hard sell to say that Russia benefits from a total defeat here.
If beaten in Ukraine, there is a chance that the trajectory of the Russian Federation changes. Currently they are trying to fulfill a senseless imperial project which is doomed to eventually fail.
With defeat in Ukraine, there’s a chance that the growing destabilization within Russia leads to abandonment of the imperial dream. It might also force a change in the leadership albeit not necessarily for the better. What it would do however, is to show that the Putinist system is not the only option and that the actions it has taken, are in fact harmful for Russia and Russians. In a way, it opens up a way to politicize the apolitical Russian public.
In the semi long/long term this would benefit the population as it would not only challenge the idea of Russia as an Empire, but also allow for a less authoritarian model of governance.
I think it’s a little too hard to predict what will end up better for the Russian people. As you say, there’s no guarantee that a post-Putin Russia is necessarily a better one. But there are many paths that lead to a more democratic and free Russia, and many that may emerge from any outcome of the war.
Sure. One thing is pretty certain though: thing won’t be getting better under the current regime.
The invasion has been such a catastrophic failure that I don’t see how “escalate things again in a few years to come” is even remotely plausible, even if they do get some concession at this point.
I think you seriously underestimate Russia. They have a helluva lot of manpower, natural resources and money. They are also able to import western sanctioned materials via China and Central Asian countries.
Russian society is being organized to resemble a war economy. There are new laws that make drafting more difficult to avoid and with more severe punishments. Also they have just raised the age for conscription. They are playing the long game and preparing for future eg. mobilizing the whole society under one delirious cause. Late 20s, early 30s it is totally possible that Russia has a better military capacity than it currently has. Sure, the life of average Russian will suck way more than it does now, but there’s not really an option if you want to keep your job in a tank factory and avoid going to prison. You have no choice but to participate.
Putin has made his mind and the struggle in Ukraine only makes him more determined that He is fighting an existential battle with the west, especially since he believes that democracies and western liberal lifestyle are on a path of inevitable decline.
Sure, if he is stupid enough He might start a conflict with NATO, believing that the alliance will break when under pressure. He might think that He is prepared and the west is weak. And while there’s 95% change that he is mistaken, it doesn’t matter if he himself believes the crap the yesmen around him and He himself are feeding him. That’s the real risk and to me, a defeat in Ukraine makes this scenario less likely to happen.
There’s no creativity required.
An invasion can be ended at any time by the invader simply withdrawing all troops.
Unfortunately it feels like it won’t stop until they run out of men to send to the front
So Pope, do you not class defeating a war mongering fascist dictator as protecting human rights, security, and peace? Appeasing dictators doesn’t work as we found out with Hitler AND Putin.
On an unrelated note, the Catholic Church including the Pope almost certainly knew about Preists smuggling Nazis to South America. Just some food for thought.
https://www.dw.com/en/the-ratlines-what-did-the-vatican-know-about-nazi-escape-routes/a-52555068
Now you’re not talking about peace with this nazis, you’re talking about justice. But the Vatican has its own view of justice, which you may not share. Let’s just say it’s completely unrelated to the war in Ukraine.
Anyone who brings up their sense of justice to public discussion has to accept the possibility of having their sense of justice scrutinized.
It takes understanding to scrutinise.
The vaticans view of justice is found in the pants of young boys.
And in the ledgers of the Vatican bank.
I feel like “explode every piece of Russian military equipment in the country and the soldiers that operate them” is a solution.
Neither does the church when it comes to child abuse. At least Europe is providing financial, medical and military aid as opposed to victim blaming church has been doing.
Be great if this pope cared as much about the children his organisation sexually abused daily, than he does about sucking off Putin.
What solution is there right now ? Putin has no interest and plans to keep have Russians fighting.
Also, Putin publicly stated their conditions for victory about this time last year: quite literally the total obliteration of Ukrainian identity as a separate culture, and the total integration of the whole of Ukraine into Russia.
You cannot negotiate any form of lasting peace with an enemy that is fighting to deny your very existence. It just doesn’t work that way.
The solution is for Russia to fuck out of Ukraine and we can have peace. Easy.
Now ask Russia to do that mr pope
“Telesur” is not the best source according to: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/telesur/
Here another source, PBS
The other source has different quotations and telesur articles may have poor sourcing however this one has direct quotes from Pope Franci’s speech.
You have to remember that the Pope is South American and to the political leaders of South America, especially those on the left, the US is evil and therefore Ukraine has the wrong friends.
In this regard, the bias of Pope Francis against the United States has put him on the wrong side of history.
He could have unified the Orthodox (minus Russia) with the Catholic Church but he has failed a huge failure. He could have increased support for Ukraine and end the war faster. He could have condemned the Russian Orthodox clergy that promote this evil was against the people of Ukraine. He has failed.
Victory to Ukraine!
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You may be interested in the recovered journal of a Soviet infiltrator whose given mission was to establish such pedophile rings among other sabotage missions. These evils were planned and plotted from long ago. Certain places had problems already but this plot certainly made matters much, much worse.
Title: Aa-1025: The Memoirs of a Communist’s infiltration in to the Church.
Link: https://www.amazon.com/Aa-1025-Memoirs-Communists-infiltration-Church/dp/0895554496
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