Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez came out in support of President Joe Biden amid growing calls in the Democratic Party for Biden to drop out of the 2024 race.
And preferably, name someone who has announced their candidacy.
A list of people you’d like in the job isn’t as relevant. I would’ve accepted almost any of the names people had floated, had any of them publicly shown interest.
But here we are with people often demanding Jon Stewart and Michelle Obama throw their hats in the ring, and that’s two people who keep saying they aren’t interested.
No one who wants to run in 2028 is going to run against the incumbent President unless that President is incredibly weak.
Biden in 2020 was solid, but even he had a close win over Trump. Biden 2022 was starting to show signs of wear (understandably so), but planning for 2024 made sense. Not my favorite choice, but I don’t think it was necessarily wrong. 2024 SOTU Biden scared Republicans so much they made up all sorts of drug rumors.
Jump to 1st Debate 2024 Biden. That was his first real misstep. Biden can recover from this.
Biden was far from my first choice in 2020, but he’s done a great job. He needs to get out there and prove it. Showcase what he’s done and pitch a plan for a future America.
Right now I don’t know if Biden can do that. I saw parts of it during the debate, but I want more. Biden should be able to convince his own party he has what it takes to win. Biden isn’t incredibly weak at the moment, but he’s getting weaker.
At the end of the day I’m voting for Biden (or his replacement) because I believe in Democrat policy. I’m not just voting “against Trump”, I believe Democratic policy is better for Americans and the American people. Republican policy, especially under Trump, isn’t even worth considering, it’s fascism and I don’t mean that hyperbolically.
If Biden can’t beat Democrats, Biden can’t beat Trump and that’s a big fuckin concern to me.
Also, since you’re looking for a name, Newsom has made it clear he is going to run in 2028. Will he run if Biden steps down? That’s debatable. It’s going to be a tough race and a loss in 2024 probably means no chance of running in 2028. There is a chance no one can beat Trump (and that’s even scarier).
(Also to anyone on the fence, Fuck Trump. Get your ass to the voting booth on election day and vote Biden.)
They keep asking for names then stop responding when you give them one. Hilariously unserious people who just want to scream that we have zero other options as loud as possible.
Well yeah, it’s standard bad faith practice to keep getting stuck on ‘name someone’. That question is an obvious mind-trap that stifles the real point no one from the pro Biden camp wants to concede: Biden is an objectively bad candidate that may lose.
This bad faith argument is not their creation, nor does it really matter.
The DNC will not listen to its constituents (let alone a Lemmy thread)and hold a primary to let Democrats choose a different candidate. No one paying any attention believes that.
The argument serves two purposes i think, to skirt around the fact the DNC doesn’t represent us and won’t hold a primary no matter what , and to keep any real discussion of ranked choice or third party voting from even starting.
Because the DNCs plan to run against fascists forever only works if we stay in a FFTP system like this
Yeah im tempted try an “ignore previous instructions” on some of em they’re so insistent, but my father-in-law sounds just like 'em so i know they are actually real people. His first time voting in his whole entire life was in '20 and now that he has “become political” (his words) he feels comfortable lecturing anyone on politics. He will never see how asinine that is or question the narrative the TV tells him. I figure trump brought a lot of people like that out of the woodwork.
You’re not wrong (generally speaking…I’m not interested, I’m entirely untrustworthy, and no one who knows me wants me in that position), but they’re not going to run so it’s moot.
It’s a valid criticism. I rage deleted my 1.5 year old lemmy account for this reason just a few weeks back. Lol
Then I got randomly banned on reddit so I’m back here.
It’s a lot better to just turn off downvotes in the settings. I wish it was like that by default because I think it’s the biggest factor preventing lemmy from growing right now. It doesn’t really matter what you say, people downvote here, it’s basically just leftist 4chan
I rage deleted my 1.5 year old lemmy account for this reason just a few weeks back.
Then I got randomly banned on reddit
it’s the biggest factor preventing lemmy from growing right now.
leftist 4chan
honestly dunno where to even begin. like, you know when you’re just in absolute fucking awe of something & you feel like you should be communicating your feelings, but you just can’t? yeah, that’s where i’m at.
You can read my thread about the completely random ban lol. I prefer reddit greatly over lemmy, it’s just way more chill.
I was banned because I was on reddit for 12 years via adblocker/script blocker without ever spending a dime or installing the app. Accounts like this get flagged by reddit admins and they’ll just wait until you break the TOS in any way and claim that’s the reason for the ban. Reddit admin are certified morons and it’s just sad. I mean you won’t believe me but I was actually one of the good guys lol
I firmly believe lemmy in its current form is leftist 4chan. As soon as I get a new public IP I’ll just go back to reddit, it’s basically zero fun to post on lemmy
We’d love to, but Biden killed primaries and caucuses. And there’s not a Democrat in existence that will go up against the DNC’s hand-picked candidate after their behavior over the last decade.
Nothing conspiratorial about it. Anyone with half a brain could tell from their tradition of not holding a primary at all when there’s an incumbent, as well as their stacking the deck in favor of their chosen candidates in the two previous ones.
You’re acting as if the DNC is a political party that only does what the voters ask for, rather than a for profit private corporation, which is what it’s legally registered as and behaving like.
To be clear, I’m planning to vote against trump unless somehow biden gets replaced with someone worse than trump (~0% chance that happens, but still)
that said, I don’t know a single person who’s happy with biden or excited that he’s the candidate, and frankly I doubt the sanity of anyone excited about him as much as I doubt bidens sanity (whereas with people voting for trump the insanity is crystal clear). I don’t know for sure who would be better, kamala might be the best bet, but being able to get through a debate without gibberish word salad sentences should be an obvious requirement
It should be, but the time and place for it was in the primaries, not when you’re up against another word salad candidate with a die hard rock solid base.
lmao what primary? the one where there were zero serious alternatives because everyone even suggesting candidates were yelled at for hElPiNg tRuMp simply by contesting biden?
I’m surprised. So does she poll more favorably against Trump than Biden? Because if so then they should just pull the trigger on that one, this Biden shit is just one big oof.
Mixed bag. She has in some polls, but worse in others. A little hard to compare Biden to anyone else, as he’s the actual nominee and has both made his case and had real attacks against him.
No one’s going to get a sure thing, but I just don’t see how Biden gets through this. He’s rolling the dice every time he’s in public, his follow ups have been largely scripted and just highlighted his worst personality traits, and he’s had a lot of credible voices say he’s done. And all that on top of already losing before the debate. He needed the debate to turn that around. A status quo result would have been bad, let alone this shit show.
I would’ve imagined he was much more disliked amongst fence sitters. Not just her policies but superficial reasons such as her being a black woman sure doesn’t help. Being a woman alone might be too much for some of them.
The point is that is a fine viewpoint to have, but to loudly just bemoan problem rather than proposing the preferred alternative is hardly useful. It has all the downsides of undermining the still presumptive candidate without any concrete hint of building up an alternative.
This is the problem with Leftists. Y’all censor or cancel anyone with opposing viewpoints, and then you get trapped by your own bubble and confused by how it doesn’t jive with reality, so you make up conspiracy theories to explain the difference.
Honestly a huge part of it was the “if you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black!” yeah I know the yuppies got all offended but the reaction I saw among poor Black people was more like hell yeah, tell it like it is.
Biden has a Black VP. He was the VP to a Black man - someone who looks like a caricature of an old racist white man willingly put himself subservient to a Black man and actually seemed happy about it.
They don’t really know his policies, though they know about Obamacare, the infrastructure bill, and the IRA. They don’t care about Israel or Palestine. They don’t care about student loans. They know he speaks out against racism. They are a little uncomfortable with how he speaks favorably about “the gays” but they’ll let that slide.
They know whenever a Republican bastard does some Republican bastard shit, Biden is there fighting against it.
They know that when Kamala blasted him for opposing school bussing decades ago, he said he was wrong for it and apologized.
They see a man who fundamentally wants what’s best for them.
I wonder how much of it is just undermining Biden. I lump this in with the “just any third party” people. It doesn’t make sense unless your goal is to just undermine Biden to bemoan his situation and the party without rallying behind something more specific. The “just any third party” implies the person is equally stoked about the chances of a Green Party or a Libertarian candidate, which makes no sense given the vastly different platforms.
I remember when RBG said the same thing. “Who would you rather see on the court other than me?” The answer is literally anyone else who isn’t a christofascist rapist, but they ended up with that one christofascist rapist.
JB Pritzker, Gretchen Whitmer, perhaps Gavin Newsom. Even Kamala Harris would have a better chance than Biden. Next to no one is voting Democratic because of Biden, people are voting against Trump. You could swap in literally anyone who isn’t 90% corpse and get at least as good a result, and almost certainly better. This idea that people would be turned off the Democrats because Joe Biden wasn’t the candidate is a joke and I don’t understand why anyone would be under the impression.
Yes, Literally anybody! What a silly premise for question… This is Hillary Clinton all over again. Democrats are being force fed the worst possible candidate we can get.
With that said, Kamala Harris is the best answer I think, for logistical reasons. But let her choose a good running mate that may bring some excitement and I think the democratic voters may come out to vote.
I would be willing to believe JB could do it. don’t know enough about Whitmer, think that Newsom has a chance but could just as easily be a Mitt Romney, and personally think you’re a little out to lunch if you actually think Kamala would win when Hilary didn’t.
Post debate polls have had Harris up on Biden in swing states. Could she win? Maybe, maybe not. But it looks like she’d at least lose less badly than Biden. His debate performance was a death blow.
Kamala has been polling better then Biden. the problem isn’t her popularity, it’s Biden looking like he’s died but doctors have refused to call it so they keep dragging him around. he even tried to salvage his debate performance with an interview with Stephanopoulos and still looked dead.
idk if anyone believes he can take another 4 years without the doctors finally calling it and Kamala replacing him anyway. like, people who think Kamala can’t be a better president than TFG would probably vote TFG anyway.
also it’s not like Biden won last time because everybody loves him. no one does. I’ve never seen an actual fan. he won mostly through negative partisanship against TFG.
I actually think he’s a pretty good president, who got a lot done quietly, including getting through some bipartisan stuff (when he didn’t have a majority across both houses) that I don’t think many other people would have managed because he’s gently spoken and not a tub thumping shouter. I think he has a good heart even if his politics are noticeably further to the right than mine.
AOC would be great. She gets it. She understands ordinary people, which is rare in US politics. Biden is pretty good. Not great at all, just pretty good.
I like that he’s not in the news every day (saying something stupid or nasty showing that he doesn’t understand how stuff works or can’t take criticism like Toddler-brained Trump), but the downside of quietly getting on with the job is that people aren’t as aware of what he’s done.
I already told you my two requisistes, three if you count having a pulse, you should ask the DNC what people their donors would allow to run. I’m sure they have a list of marketable 45-65 white heirs who would love to keep everything exactly as is they’d support.
you should ask the DNC what people their donors would allow to run
Which in my opinion is perfectly fucking fine. Biden is the guy the DNC donors allowed. We’re not going to get something different from his delegates or the establishment he shaped. I’m not in this fight because I sense an opportunity for policy gains, I just want the next egotistical ancient political figure to not drag us all down with them in their decline. I’m happy with just getting a pulse.
It may also be a little late to introduce a new candidate, unless they have great name recognition. Betcha Bernie 2.0 would mobilize a goodly number of people, while centrists would hold their noses, and just vote for Not Trump.
Bernie isn’t running, and Biden isn’t quitting, so we take what we can get. At this point, I would literally vote for a loofah if it ran against Trump.
Someone on lemmy said this Sunday that France leftist successfully formed a global left party in 4 weeks, surely Democrats could find a candidate in 4 months.
Turns out she will actually be old enough to become president even before election day. And she certainly has the name recognition.
Again, Biden is not likely to step down - and at this point, I would vote for an empty tube of toothpaste over Trump.
The French situation is very different and the election was a little more complicated than that.
They (left and center parties)didn’t form a global left party, but only allegedly collaborated on not running against each other in some areas.
This is not an option in the USA presidential election where there only are two candidates to begin with. Introducing a third candidate would only split the votes.
It would be nice to see AOC run eventually, but it wouldn’t be a good idea right now. Hopefully both Trump and Biden will be to old next time, so both parties need to find younger candidates.
Oh I was not talking about left + Macron center (ensemble) but only the left.
The left parties did form a global one, le Nouveau Front Populaire, and I was just referring to that. The left was in shambles between LFI, PS, Les verts etc, a bit of all for themselves. LFI taking the most seats from what was historically le PS (former president Hollande party).
But after announcing the dissolution they managed to be friends again in a very short time. That what was said by that lemmy user.
Macron center was not included and will not be. Stepping down when 3rd to avoid that or that party is nothing new for us, more like a “gentleman agreement” except that this time it was more important than last times.
I think it was a great idea to force a stale despite the forthcoming troubles of setting a government. In some ways it is similar to the American election by turning it into a vote for or against right wing extremism regardless of who is representing the left side, but I can’t see the American democrats having any similar options available.
On the other hand it’s kind of sad having to force an election to be limited to a two choice vote. Block politics or single issue politics are usually not good for democracy. Unfortunately it’s happening everywhere. People are turning more extreme in both directions based on their Facebook feed…
The name recognition is just in case other voters are pickier / more discerning. If it’s someone super cool, they may even pull in people who were not going to vote. Yes, I would literally vote for a rusty bottle cap over Trump, but others may have different requirements.
Offering to run instead of Biden at this point would basically be political suicide, so it’s no wonder nobody has stepped up. If Biden backs out though the math changes significantly. This is t a very convincing argument.
The current vice president, who also is the vice presidential candidate, and who Biden’s campaign itself says is qualified to replace him if he’s incapacitated? You know, the one that’s already effectively a candidate for the presidency because no one believes Biden will last 4 years?
If your takeaway from that article is “the debate didn’t hurt Biden”, the article entitled “Biden suffers less polling damage than expected…”, then I have some doubts about your ability to recognize your own bias.
America will NOT elect a Black woman. Independent voters have already been fed four years of bullshit about her. Remember all the conspiracy theories about how Biden was going to immediately step down after the 2020 election and hand the Presidency over to Kamala, which would be apocalyptically bad because…well, you know…mumble mumble
Democrats can’t name someone until Biden agrees or they have a majority ready to try to force him out. It really is Biden’s decision to step aside. The issue is the polls are saying he should step aside, and it looks like he wants to lose.
Dude, anyone. Who in the democratic party is more corrupt than Trump? To paraphrase Biden himself, there are at least fifty people that could win against Trump.
I hope Biden is one of the fifty right now… But I am not certain.
Kamala Harris. Pete Buttigieg. Fucking anyone else. I’d rather vote for Mitt Romney than Donald Trump; we don’t need Biden.
But your question is obviously made in bad faith. You will argue that anyone we name is unelectable. Meanwhile, the framework of the discussion ignores Biden’s own questionable electability.
I don’t think the opinion “the man who has control of the nuclear arsenal is showing signs of senility and should not serve another 4 years regardless of who replaces him” is not an unreasonable one
When the current only alternative is someone with clearly worse faculties and intentions, it obviously fucking is. Again, name who you think can beat him. Go ahead. Take into account the entire current political climate. We’ll wait.
this is kinda a ridiculous request. The DNC should be the ones actively finding and presenting alternatives. If it was any other election year what if something happened to their primary candidate?
No one publicly shows interest because the party prevents any alternative. Anyone trying to run is accused of trying to break up the party, look at what happened to Bernie.
I advocated for Bernie, during the primaries, when it was time to choose a Democratic candidate. Note that that time is not now. Now is the time where a democratic candidate need to beat Trump. Do you think even swapping Bernie in now that he could beat Trump?
Not trying to question your motives here (seriously, I’m not) but I grimace hearing “we’re only months away from the election, we couldn’t possibly make changes now” because it has a perverse similarity to the argument Mitch McConnell used to ratfuck his way into an extra SC justice. And we all know how that turned out.
Do you think even swapping Bernie in now that he could beat Trump?
This question broke me. If the left-leaning voting population of the USA can’t support a single candidate against freaking Trump except Biden then we deserve whatever disaster occurs. That’s embarrassing. Truly childish levels of spitefulness.
Or just that some people dont have any problem supporting Biden right now. Internet’s full of loud assholes during on hills, thats what makes you successful here.
The Polymarket prediction markets gives odds for who will win the presidential election and who will win the democratic nominee. We can compare the odds of each candidate and use Bayes Theorem to determine their chances of winning the presidency if they secure the DNC nomination.
Obviously this doesn’t work perfectly (the Michelle Obama example especially is bizarre), but there is over $300M behind these numbers so people seem to think they’re at least somewhat accurate.
TLDR: there is a lot of money that thinks Joe Biden is one of the worst options
Of course not, because the media and DNC refused to give him any traction when he did run. That doesn’t preclude anyone finding out, if they had the wherewithal. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kucinich
At any rate, demands for s name were made, one was given. This guy is mostly middle of the road and the DNC still considered him enough of a threat, they absolutely will not give him time of day, because he threatens the corporate -beholden status quo in just s couple of the wrong right ways.
The media attention from him replacing Biden would surely get the word across. The right-wing media would help name recognition by running a smear campaign. And, as everyone keeps saying, we are literally voting for “Not Trump” at this point. “Not Trump” doesn’t have to be Biden.
It wouldn’t be if there were an alternative who was not showing similar or worse signs of senility. When both of the only feasible candidates have the same issue, that issue is mostly moot.
I agree that those would be good candidates. I have little confidence that they would defeat Trump, especially now with relatively little name recognition among people who don’t actively follow the news.
I disagree. My logic is as follows:
Premise 1. Joe Biden cannot beat Trump
Premise 2: Virtually any other democrat can beat Trump
Conclusion: If we want to beat Trump, Biden should step down and be replaced by virtually any other Democrat
Because last time he beat Trump it was because Covid was the top worry and of course people want the party that promotes health care over Trump when their biggest fear is a global pandemic. Now peoples fears are money. You run the same campaign you ran in 2020 and you’ll lose.
Yes. There’s partisans who vote Trump no matter what, but there’s also a pretty large number of “low information voters”. Rather than being necessarily dumb, many of these are people from all kinds of different walks of life who just don’t follow politics that closely and prefer to follow things like dating reality shows or sports instead. These people are not really aware of what happened on Jan 6 other than that there was some sort of riot at the Capitol. They know Trump was charged with a bunch of crimes, but don’t know if they were real crimes or just politics. And when these people see Trump lying confidently and Joe Biden being barely intelligible in response, they like Trump better.
It sucks, yes. But it’s reality. Democrats need someone who can answer Trump forcefully. Or they will lose.
This continues to be a disingenuous meme response. If they named a name you’d complain that they were trying to install their choice rather than have an open selection process.
My best alternative choice would be Bernie but I don’t think he’d actually beat Trump because he’d lose some centrists, doesn’t seem particularly less old, and hasn’t held presidential office before. What’s your choice?
It’s two separate questions, and the second has basically only two answers: it’s either Harris or some sort of open contest voted on by the delegates. Most “replace” voices don’t care which of those options is selected nearly as much as they care that the guy who’s going to lose can’t be the nominee.
And my personal choice is “I don’t care”. Harris is fine, the governors are fine, Buttigieg is unlikely but fine. I’m not going to pretend the party or Biden’s own delegates is going to choose a progressive. None of them is going to cause a seismic shift in the candidate’s policy except for getting a chance to choose a better message on Israel and any will fulfill the need of ditching the losing incumbent who only made the race worse in his one key public appearance. Their one and only qualification is that unlike Biden, they might not lose. And that’s plenty for me.
So basically your answer is you don’t care because you’re pissing your pants scared right now.
Harris won’t beat him, literally everyone knows that, which is why no one is suggesting her. Your idea of pitting “I dunno whoever the dems elect, they’re probably fine” is quite frankly preposterous on its face. Pick someone and advocate for them, or learn to shut up and not scream chicken little.
No I asked for names because tearing down options without presenting new ones is what Russian propagandists do. Not what people who don’t want Trump to win do.
Franken comes off just as old and won’t win over centrist voters, Harris is possibly less charismatic than Clinton, Buttigieg would be a great president and I would support his candidacy all the way, but realistically I don’t know if America would rally behind him by November, Newsom might but he might also be a Mitt Romney, Whitmer I don’t know enough about.
If you wanna champion Biden to step aside for Franken, go for it, but I quite frankly have an extremely hard time seeing him beat Trump.
I don’t think that’s a disingenuous response. I can name a lot of people I liked who ran in the primaries in '20 as well as a slew of up and coming names. I don’t think they have as strong a chance as Biden.
Like many have already said, I think that focusing on a lackluster debate (in which he actually responded well based on the content of his responses and the policy he promoted) is not the way to go about this.
As much as I like other names for the presidency, I think Biden is our best shot at staving off disaster and he did get a lot done with the Inflation Reduction Act. Another four years of that policy trajectory is definitely something I can get behind. That’s at least a step in the right direction.
And I think Biden is going to lose and any of the shortlist names have a reasonable chance of injecting some life into the party and most importantly haven’t been fatally damaged, not by “a lackluster debate”, but by being unable to make coherent responses. Biden had lackluster debates in the 2020 primary, that didn’t invalidate him from being nominee, because it was just a poor performance, not indications that at least some of the time he’s incoherent.
You are assuming that the debate invalidated Biden for everyone else just because you feel that way. You also are very confident in your prediction of Biden losing, to the point of absurdity. Somehow you can predict the future now? Go on reference the “polls”!
All the (very liberal) late night hosts are making fun of him. Members of Congress are publicly saying he should step down. Donors are publicly abandoning him. Half of Democrats think he should step down. It doesn’t need to be everyone. He doesn’t have headroom to lose practically anyone.
Go on reference the “polls”!
I would never want to give you fake news. Stop the steal.
I’m just saying that not everyone thinks the president is some god king of America, and that democrats lead as a party anyways so what would it matter if Biden turns into a senile puppet until he dies, to be replaced by the next democrat who will follow the exact same policies as Biden was.
It just doesnt seem very dire. “What if he can’t keep a conversation soon!” Oh well, he can step down and kamala can take over.
Any democrat we replace Biden with for the election will have all the same issues with the same voter blocks. It seems like an over reaction both ways.
After the convention replacing the nominee becomes very hard, and we’d really like to not waste time with a nominee who can’t go out after 8 pm. And no, any replacement will not have the same issues. Not being able to campaign coherently is a major issue unique to Joe Biden. That’s huge. Campaigns are won or lost on the ability of the leader to sway people to their side.
I haven’t based any of my voting decisions on speeches in a long time. I just dont think thats a good way to learn about someone and their policies. I usually look to recent actions, and definitely Biden is a mixed bag, but the Democratic party is a mixed bag as a whole right now.
I’m seeing a lot of people pointing at what they see is a problem, but then posit no better solutions. I also dont think its right to expect perfection or bust like some others seem to say.
I do think its interesting that there are so many different opinions on all of this stuff. I’m not sure entirely why the different perspectives exist, I know they are all valid at least. For me, I see steady progress about as quick as I think possible, for others they might see no progress or backsliding, and at different speeds.
For me the right time to have chosen someone else besides Biden was in 2020. And I will also admit that I personally would vote for Bernie Sanders if he were running for president but I’m not sure he would actually perform better than Biden in voting nationally. I’d like to think he would, but I know some older voters who would vote for Biden wouldn’t vote for Bernie, so its hard to guess on.
Removed by mod
And preferably, name someone who has announced their candidacy.
A list of people you’d like in the job isn’t as relevant. I would’ve accepted almost any of the names people had floated, had any of them publicly shown interest.
But here we are with people often demanding Jon Stewart and Michelle Obama throw their hats in the ring, and that’s two people who keep saying they aren’t interested.
Edit: the shit people downvote here.
No one who wants to run in 2028 is going to run against the incumbent President unless that President is incredibly weak.
Biden in 2020 was solid, but even he had a close win over Trump. Biden 2022 was starting to show signs of wear (understandably so), but planning for 2024 made sense. Not my favorite choice, but I don’t think it was necessarily wrong. 2024 SOTU Biden scared Republicans so much they made up all sorts of drug rumors.
Jump to 1st Debate 2024 Biden. That was his first real misstep. Biden can recover from this.
Biden was far from my first choice in 2020, but he’s done a great job. He needs to get out there and prove it. Showcase what he’s done and pitch a plan for a future America.
Right now I don’t know if Biden can do that. I saw parts of it during the debate, but I want more. Biden should be able to convince his own party he has what it takes to win. Biden isn’t incredibly weak at the moment, but he’s getting weaker.
At the end of the day I’m voting for Biden (or his replacement) because I believe in Democrat policy. I’m not just voting “against Trump”, I believe Democratic policy is better for Americans and the American people. Republican policy, especially under Trump, isn’t even worth considering, it’s fascism and I don’t mean that hyperbolically.
If Biden can’t beat Democrats, Biden can’t beat Trump and that’s a big fuckin concern to me.
Also, since you’re looking for a name, Newsom has made it clear he is going to run in 2028. Will he run if Biden steps down? That’s debatable. It’s going to be a tough race and a loss in 2024 probably means no chance of running in 2028. There is a chance no one can beat Trump (and that’s even scarier).
(Also to anyone on the fence, Fuck Trump. Get your ass to the voting booth on election day and vote Biden.)
They keep asking for names then stop responding when you give them one. Hilariously unserious people who just want to scream that we have zero other options as loud as possible.
Well yeah, it’s standard bad faith practice to keep getting stuck on ‘name someone’. That question is an obvious mind-trap that stifles the real point no one from the pro Biden camp wants to concede: Biden is an objectively bad candidate that may lose.
This bad faith argument is not their creation, nor does it really matter.
The DNC will not listen to its constituents (let alone a Lemmy thread)and hold a primary to let Democrats choose a different candidate. No one paying any attention believes that.
The argument serves two purposes i think, to skirt around the fact the DNC doesn’t represent us and won’t hold a primary no matter what , and to keep any real discussion of ranked choice or third party voting from even starting.
Because the DNCs plan to run against fascists forever only works if we stay in a FFTP system like this
If you can’t name a candidate, you’re naming Trump.
Almost sounding like idk, corporate shills or something?
Has Newsom said he wanted the job?
Again, it’s not about a wishlist. I am NOT AGAINST OTHER CANDIDATES.
Just the endless hand-wringing and dropping names of those who don’t want the fucking job.
I like Newsom. If he were the candidate, I’d vote for him. But he isn’t, at least not yet.
Yeah im tempted try an “ignore previous instructions” on some of em they’re so insistent, but my father-in-law sounds just like 'em so i know they are actually real people. His first time voting in his whole entire life was in '20 and now that he has “become political” (his words) he feels comfortable lecturing anyone on politics. He will never see how asinine that is or question the narrative the TV tells him. I figure trump brought a lot of people like that out of the woodwork.
He still didn’t give a name
The ones who aren’t interested are usually more trustworthy?
You’re not wrong (generally speaking…I’m not interested, I’m entirely untrustworthy, and no one who knows me wants me in that position), but they’re not going to run so it’s moot.
Washington didn’t want to be president but was
Vermin Supreme!
Marianne Williamson. I want President Williamson. She has announced her candidacy. I will gladly support the Democrats if she’s their candidate.
Otherwise, I’ll probably support the Greens.
Whining about being downvoted (BY ONE PERSON IN THIS CASE) is a great way to ensure that I downvote you.
Fair, and I expected that. But it’s frustrating as hell sometimes.
It’s a valid criticism. I rage deleted my 1.5 year old lemmy account for this reason just a few weeks back. Lol
Then I got randomly banned on reddit so I’m back here.
It’s a lot better to just turn off downvotes in the settings. I wish it was like that by default because I think it’s the biggest factor preventing lemmy from growing right now. It doesn’t really matter what you say, people downvote here, it’s basically just leftist 4chan
honestly dunno where to even begin. like, you know when you’re just in absolute fucking awe of something & you feel like you should be communicating your feelings, but you just can’t? yeah, that’s where i’m at.
You can read my thread about the completely random ban lol. I prefer reddit greatly over lemmy, it’s just way more chill.
I was banned because I was on reddit for 12 years via adblocker/script blocker without ever spending a dime or installing the app. Accounts like this get flagged by reddit admins and they’ll just wait until you break the TOS in any way and claim that’s the reason for the ban. Reddit admin are certified morons and it’s just sad. I mean you won’t believe me but I was actually one of the good guys lol
I firmly believe lemmy in its current form is leftist 4chan. As soon as I get a new public IP I’ll just go back to reddit, it’s basically zero fun to post on lemmy
We’d love to, but Biden killed primaries and caucuses. And there’s not a Democrat in existence that will go up against the DNC’s hand-picked candidate after their behavior over the last decade.
When was the last time an incumbent president held primaries?
This year. Biden, Phillips, Williamson, and Palmer. Biden won all primaries except for the American Samoa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
It’s almost like people aren’t paying attention to what’s happening before bitching about it.
Those “primaries” were just for show and you know it.
Because no one serious wants to run against an incumbent.
Fixed that for you.
Is this your first election?
Conspiracy theories are a plague.
Nothing conspiratorial about it. Anyone with half a brain could tell from their tradition of not holding a primary at all when there’s an incumbent, as well as their stacking the deck in favor of their chosen candidates in the two previous ones.
You’re acting as if the DNC is a political party that only does what the voters ask for, rather than a for profit private corporation, which is what it’s legally registered as and behaving like.
So none of them care enough to speak publicly. Got it.
To be clear, I’m planning to vote against trump unless somehow biden gets replaced with someone worse than trump (~0% chance that happens, but still)
that said, I don’t know a single person who’s happy with biden or excited that he’s the candidate, and frankly I doubt the sanity of anyone excited about him as much as I doubt bidens sanity (whereas with people voting for trump the insanity is crystal clear). I don’t know for sure who would be better, kamala might be the best bet, but being able to get through a debate without gibberish word salad sentences should be an obvious requirement
It should be, but the time and place for it was in the primaries, not when you’re up against another word salad candidate with a die hard rock solid base.
lmao what primary? the one where there were zero serious alternatives because everyone even suggesting candidates were yelled at for hElPiNg tRuMp simply by contesting biden?
And? If you can’t win a primary, there’s no way you’ll win a general election. The dudes going against Biden lost hugely.
You didn’t even read their comment before replying. This is a total non sequitur.
Isn’t Kamala thoroughly disliked?
Less than Biden was, even before the debate, but only she gets described that way.
I’m surprised. So does she poll more favorably against Trump than Biden? Because if so then they should just pull the trigger on that one, this Biden shit is just one big oof.
Mixed bag. She has in some polls, but worse in others. A little hard to compare Biden to anyone else, as he’s the actual nominee and has both made his case and had real attacks against him.
No one’s going to get a sure thing, but I just don’t see how Biden gets through this. He’s rolling the dice every time he’s in public, his follow ups have been largely scripted and just highlighted his worst personality traits, and he’s had a lot of credible voices say he’s done. And all that on top of already losing before the debate. He needed the debate to turn that around. A status quo result would have been bad, let alone this shit show.
Checking out some videos of Biden’s worst moments and I just feel bad. It’s starting to feel like goddamn elder abuse to have him as the candidate.
Yeah, but not to the same level as biden for people who are on the fence between biden and trump.
I would’ve imagined he was much more disliked amongst fence sitters. Not just her policies but superficial reasons such as her being a black woman sure doesn’t help. Being a woman alone might be too much for some of them.
The point is that is a fine viewpoint to have, but to loudly just bemoan problem rather than proposing the preferred alternative is hardly useful. It has all the downsides of undermining the still presumptive candidate without any concrete hint of building up an alternative.
This is the problem with Leftists. Y’all censor or cancel anyone with opposing viewpoints, and then you get trapped by your own bubble and confused by how it doesn’t jive with reality, so you make up conspiracy theories to explain the difference.
Do you know anyone excited about biden?
Yeah, I know several. But they’re poor, Black, and Southern, so you’d never associate with them.
Why are they excited about him?
Honestly a huge part of it was the “if you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black!” yeah I know the yuppies got all offended but the reaction I saw among poor Black people was more like hell yeah, tell it like it is.
Biden has a Black VP. He was the VP to a Black man - someone who looks like a caricature of an old racist white man willingly put himself subservient to a Black man and actually seemed happy about it.
They don’t really know his policies, though they know about Obamacare, the infrastructure bill, and the IRA. They don’t care about Israel or Palestine. They don’t care about student loans. They know he speaks out against racism. They are a little uncomfortable with how he speaks favorably about “the gays” but they’ll let that slide.
They know whenever a Republican bastard does some Republican bastard shit, Biden is there fighting against it.
They know that when Kamala blasted him for opposing school bussing decades ago, he said he was wrong for it and apologized.
They see a man who fundamentally wants what’s best for them.
Gotcha, thanks for the perspective
I wonder how much of it is just undermining Biden. I lump this in with the “just any third party” people. It doesn’t make sense unless your goal is to just undermine Biden to bemoan his situation and the party without rallying behind something more specific. The “just any third party” implies the person is equally stoked about the chances of a Green Party or a Libertarian candidate, which makes no sense given the vastly different platforms.
100% of it. Either directly, or via useful idiots.
I remember when RBG said the same thing. “Who would you rather see on the court other than me?” The answer is literally anyone else who isn’t a christofascist rapist, but they ended up with that one christofascist rapist.
And you’re not able to see the difference between a guaranteed nomination and a national election?
Good luck dragging that corpse past the finish line
Again, name who you think can beat Trump were they to swap in right now. I’m waiting.
JB Pritzker, Gretchen Whitmer, perhaps Gavin Newsom. Even Kamala Harris would have a better chance than Biden. Next to no one is voting Democratic because of Biden, people are voting against Trump. You could swap in literally anyone who isn’t 90% corpse and get at least as good a result, and almost certainly better. This idea that people would be turned off the Democrats because Joe Biden wasn’t the candidate is a joke and I don’t understand why anyone would be under the impression.
Yes, Literally anybody! What a silly premise for question… This is Hillary Clinton all over again. Democrats are being force fed the worst possible candidate we can get.
With that said, Kamala Harris is the best answer I think, for logistical reasons. But let her choose a good running mate that may bring some excitement and I think the democratic voters may come out to vote.
This IS Hillary all over again but it’s only because you dumb fucks are choking down obvious propaganda and asking for more. Just like 2016.
I would be willing to believe JB could do it. don’t know enough about Whitmer, think that Newsom has a chance but could just as easily be a Mitt Romney, and personally think you’re a little out to lunch if you actually think Kamala would win when Hilary didn’t.
Post debate polls have had Harris up on Biden in swing states. Could she win? Maybe, maybe not. But it looks like she’d at least lose less badly than Biden. His debate performance was a death blow.
deleted by creator
Kamala has been polling better then Biden. the problem isn’t her popularity, it’s Biden looking like he’s died but doctors have refused to call it so they keep dragging him around. he even tried to salvage his debate performance with an interview with Stephanopoulos and still looked dead.
idk if anyone believes he can take another 4 years without the doctors finally calling it and Kamala replacing him anyway. like, people who think Kamala can’t be a better president than TFG would probably vote TFG anyway.
also it’s not like Biden won last time because everybody loves him. no one does. I’ve never seen an actual fan. he won mostly through negative partisanship against TFG.
I actually think he’s a pretty good president, who got a lot done quietly, including getting through some bipartisan stuff (when he didn’t have a majority across both houses) that I don’t think many other people would have managed because he’s gently spoken and not a tub thumping shouter. I think he has a good heart even if his politics are noticeably further to the right than mine.
AOC would be great. She gets it. She understands ordinary people, which is rare in US politics. Biden is pretty good. Not great at all, just pretty good.
I like that he’s not in the news every day (saying something stupid or nasty showing that he doesn’t understand how stuff works or can’t take criticism like Toddler-brained Trump), but the downside of quietly getting on with the job is that people aren’t as aware of what he’s done.
Then you aren’t informed enough to even be talking about this
And yet you want to put Whitmer on a national stage??
No one knows who that is.
Doesn’t want to run.
Doesn’t want to run.
A Black woman? You’re in fucking fantasy land.
I already told you my two requisistes, three if you count having a pulse, you should ask the DNC what people their donors would allow to run. I’m sure they have a list of marketable 45-65 white heirs who would love to keep everything exactly as is they’d support.
Which in my opinion is perfectly fucking fine. Biden is the guy the DNC donors allowed. We’re not going to get something different from his delegates or the establishment he shaped. I’m not in this fight because I sense an opportunity for policy gains, I just want the next egotistical ancient political figure to not drag us all down with them in their decline. I’m happy with just getting a pulse.
So you you have no options within the practical realities of the current system leading up to November? Good to know.
It may also be a little late to introduce a new candidate, unless they have great name recognition. Betcha Bernie 2.0 would mobilize a goodly number of people, while centrists would hold their noses, and just vote for Not Trump.
Bernie isn’t running, and Biden isn’t quitting, so we take what we can get. At this point, I would literally vote for a loofah if it ran against Trump.
Someone on lemmy said this Sunday that France leftist successfully formed a global left party in 4 weeks, surely Democrats could find a candidate in 4 months.
I want to see AOC as your president.
Turns out she will actually be old enough to become president even before election day. And she certainly has the name recognition. Again, Biden is not likely to step down - and at this point, I would vote for an empty tube of toothpaste over Trump.
The French situation is very different and the election was a little more complicated than that. They (left and center parties)didn’t form a global left party, but only allegedly collaborated on not running against each other in some areas.
This is not an option in the USA presidential election where there only are two candidates to begin with. Introducing a third candidate would only split the votes.
It would be nice to see AOC run eventually, but it wouldn’t be a good idea right now. Hopefully both Trump and Biden will be to old next time, so both parties need to find younger candidates.
Oh I was not talking about left + Macron center (ensemble) but only the left.
The left parties did form a global one, le Nouveau Front Populaire, and I was just referring to that. The left was in shambles between LFI, PS, Les verts etc, a bit of all for themselves. LFI taking the most seats from what was historically le PS (former president Hollande party).
But after announcing the dissolution they managed to be friends again in a very short time. That what was said by that lemmy user.
Macron center was not included and will not be. Stepping down when 3rd to avoid that or that party is nothing new for us, more like a “gentleman agreement” except that this time it was more important than last times.
I think it was a great idea to force a stale despite the forthcoming troubles of setting a government. In some ways it is similar to the American election by turning it into a vote for or against right wing extremism regardless of who is representing the left side, but I can’t see the American democrats having any similar options available.
On the other hand it’s kind of sad having to force an election to be limited to a two choice vote. Block politics or single issue politics are usually not good for democracy. Unfortunately it’s happening everywhere. People are turning more extreme in both directions based on their Facebook feed…
Ah the facebook feeds… I am considering using the fediverse left beard Linux dudes to make an army of leftist devs/sys admins etc.
Use the same tools as the extreme right (like boting) to flood Facebook, Twitter etc with leftist views and positives stories.
Europeans understand that the American voting system is different than the European one challenge (impossible)
Then we don’t need name recognition. Any middle of the road Democrat will do.
The name recognition is just in case other voters are pickier / more discerning. If it’s someone super cool, they may even pull in people who were not going to vote. Yes, I would literally vote for a rusty bottle cap over Trump, but others may have different requirements.
Offering to run instead of Biden at this point would basically be political suicide, so it’s no wonder nobody has stepped up. If Biden backs out though the math changes significantly. This is t a very convincing argument.
The current vice president, who also is the vice presidential candidate, and who Biden’s campaign itself says is qualified to replace him if he’s incapacitated? You know, the one that’s already effectively a candidate for the presidency because no one believes Biden will last 4 years?
deleted by creator
K. How does she poll against Trump?
How does Biden right now? She’s already fully factored in when people think about Biden anyway.
And to answer your question, the Ipsos poll from July 2 puts her within one point of Trump which is actually much better than Biden right now.
She’s polling generally poorly against Trump and Biden wasn’t that hurt by the debate. Here you go: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/09/biden-polling-debate-trump
If your takeaway from that article is “the debate didn’t hurt Biden”, the article entitled “Biden suffers less polling damage than expected…”, then I have some doubts about your ability to recognize your own bias.
If that’s your take away from the article I question your reading comprehension.
America will NOT elect a Black woman. Independent voters have already been fed four years of bullshit about her. Remember all the conspiracy theories about how Biden was going to immediately step down after the 2020 election and hand the Presidency over to Kamala, which would be apocalyptically bad because…well, you know…mumble mumble
I dunno I could probably win, not exactly steep competition lol
Democrats can’t name someone until Biden agrees or they have a majority ready to try to force him out. It really is Biden’s decision to step aside. The issue is the polls are saying he should step aside, and it looks like he wants to lose.
No, the pundits are saying he should pull out.
Wrong… the polls are saying he should. Do you want to beat Trump or are you hoping for a miracle?
Dude, anyone. Who in the democratic party is more corrupt than Trump? To paraphrase Biden himself, there are at least fifty people that could win against Trump.
I hope Biden is one of the fifty right now… But I am not certain.
Kamala Harris. Pete Buttigieg. Fucking anyone else. I’d rather vote for Mitt Romney than Donald Trump; we don’t need Biden.
But your question is obviously made in bad faith. You will argue that anyone we name is unelectable. Meanwhile, the framework of the discussion ignores Biden’s own questionable electability.
I don’t think the opinion “the man who has control of the nuclear arsenal is showing signs of senility and should not serve another 4 years regardless of who replaces him” is not an unreasonable one
When the current only alternative is someone with clearly worse faculties and intentions, it obviously fucking is. Again, name who you think can beat him. Go ahead. Take into account the entire current political climate. We’ll wait.
this is kinda a ridiculous request. The DNC should be the ones actively finding and presenting alternatives. If it was any other election year what if something happened to their primary candidate?
No one publicly shows interest because the party prevents any alternative. Anyone trying to run is accused of trying to break up the party, look at what happened to Bernie.
I advocated for Bernie, during the primaries, when it was time to choose a Democratic candidate. Note that that time is not now. Now is the time where a democratic candidate need to beat Trump. Do you think even swapping Bernie in now that he could beat Trump?
Not trying to question your motives here (seriously, I’m not) but I grimace hearing “we’re only months away from the election, we couldn’t possibly make changes now” because it has a perverse similarity to the argument Mitch McConnell used to ratfuck his way into an extra SC justice. And we all know how that turned out.
If you can’t see the difference, that should be an indicator that perhaps your opinions are not very well informed.
This question broke me. If the left-leaning voting population of the USA can’t support a single candidate against freaking Trump except Biden then we deserve whatever disaster occurs. That’s embarrassing. Truly childish levels of spitefulness.
Or just that some people dont have any problem supporting Biden right now. Internet’s full of loud assholes during on hills, thats what makes you successful here.
The Polymarket prediction markets gives odds for who will win the presidential election and who will win the democratic nominee. We can compare the odds of each candidate and use Bayes Theorem to determine their chances of winning the presidency if they secure the DNC nomination.
Here’s the results as of posting this comment:
Joe Biden: 27% Kamala Harris: 50% Michelle Obama: 100% Gavin Newsom: 66% Other: 50%
Obviously this doesn’t work perfectly (the Michelle Obama example especially is bizarre), but there is over $300M behind these numbers so people seem to think they’re at least somewhat accurate.
TLDR: there is a lot of money that thinks Joe Biden is one of the worst options
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/09/biden-polling-debate-trump
That information doesn’t change anything I’ve said. He can be “trailing trump” and still not be the best candidate the dems could have
I think there are people on the fence (who generally decide the election) who would be swayed by Biden’s apparent dementia
Kucinich
No one knows who that is.
Of course not, because the media and DNC refused to give him any traction when he did run. That doesn’t preclude anyone finding out, if they had the wherewithal. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kucinich
At any rate, demands for s name were made, one was given. This guy is mostly middle of the road and the DNC still considered him enough of a threat, they absolutely will not give him time of day, because he threatens the corporate -beholden status quo in just s couple of the
wrongright ways.Regardless of whatever conspiracy theory, he can’t win so he’s a terrible option.
Miss the point by much?
The point is you fuckers are demanding a new candidate NOW, but can’t name anyone who wouldn’t go down in flames.
The media attention from him replacing Biden would surely get the word across. The right-wing media would help name recognition by running a smear campaign. And, as everyone keeps saying, we are literally voting for “Not Trump” at this point. “Not Trump” doesn’t have to be Biden.
It wouldn’t be if there were an alternative who was not showing similar or worse signs of senility. When both of the only feasible candidates have the same issue, that issue is mostly moot.
You don’t think if Biden stepped down and it was an open primary there wouldn’t be some good options?
Pete Buttigeig, Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, anyone under 60 would make Trump look like a dottering old man in comparison
I agree that those would be good candidates. I have little confidence that they would defeat Trump, especially now with relatively little name recognition among people who don’t actively follow the news.
I disagree. My logic is as follows:
Premise 1. Joe Biden cannot beat Trump
Premise 2: Virtually any other democrat can beat Trump
Conclusion: If we want to beat Trump, Biden should step down and be replaced by virtually any other Democrat
You say he can’t beat Trump, but he already beat healthcare, so who knows what else he can beat
Why can’t Joe beat Trump? Because he seems old and confuses things? You think that’s why people are voting for Trump?
Because last time he beat Trump it was because Covid was the top worry and of course people want the party that promotes health care over Trump when their biggest fear is a global pandemic. Now peoples fears are money. You run the same campaign you ran in 2020 and you’ll lose.
I’ll gladly take old and confused over actively malicious
Don’t forget that the actively malicious option is also old and confused as well.
I mean, if you look at track records, Biden already beat Trump in 100% of previous elections.
Biden only beat Trump the first time around because of historic voter turnout. Voters just aren’t as enthusiastic to keep Trump out this year.
Self fulfilling prophesy.
Yes. There’s partisans who vote Trump no matter what, but there’s also a pretty large number of “low information voters”. Rather than being necessarily dumb, many of these are people from all kinds of different walks of life who just don’t follow politics that closely and prefer to follow things like dating reality shows or sports instead. These people are not really aware of what happened on Jan 6 other than that there was some sort of riot at the Capitol. They know Trump was charged with a bunch of crimes, but don’t know if they were real crimes or just politics. And when these people see Trump lying confidently and Joe Biden being barely intelligible in response, they like Trump better.
It sucks, yes. But it’s reality. Democrats need someone who can answer Trump forcefully. Or they will lose.
This continues to be a disingenuous meme response. If they named a name you’d complain that they were trying to install their choice rather than have an open selection process.
Try me. I’m waiting. No one has named a name.
My best alternative choice would be Bernie but I don’t think he’d actually beat Trump because he’d lose some centrists, doesn’t seem particularly less old, and hasn’t held presidential office before. What’s your choice?
It’s two separate questions, and the second has basically only two answers: it’s either Harris or some sort of open contest voted on by the delegates. Most “replace” voices don’t care which of those options is selected nearly as much as they care that the guy who’s going to lose can’t be the nominee.
And my personal choice is “I don’t care”. Harris is fine, the governors are fine, Buttigieg is unlikely but fine. I’m not going to pretend the party or Biden’s own delegates is going to choose a progressive. None of them is going to cause a seismic shift in the candidate’s policy except for getting a chance to choose a better message on Israel and any will fulfill the need of ditching the losing incumbent who only made the race worse in his one key public appearance. Their one and only qualification is that unlike Biden, they might not lose. And that’s plenty for me.
So basically your answer is you don’t care because you’re pissing your pants scared right now.
Harris won’t beat him, literally everyone knows that, which is why no one is suggesting her. Your idea of pitting “I dunno whoever the dems elect, they’re probably fine” is quite frankly preposterous on its face. Pick someone and advocate for them, or learn to shut up and not scream chicken little.
You asked for names intending to dismiss any reply.
No I asked for names because tearing down options without presenting new ones is what Russian propagandists do. Not what people who don’t want Trump to win do.
Here, watch. Franken, Harris, Buttigieg, Newsom. Whitmer.
Now do what you intended to do when you asked the question and dismiss.
All of whom have explicitly said they don’t want to run. And they back Joe Biden.
Gimme a viable candidate here.
Franken comes off just as old and won’t win over centrist voters, Harris is possibly less charismatic than Clinton, Buttigieg would be a great president and I would support his candidacy all the way, but realistically I don’t know if America would rally behind him by November, Newsom might but he might also be a Mitt Romney, Whitmer I don’t know enough about.
If you wanna champion Biden to step aside for Franken, go for it, but I quite frankly have an extremely hard time seeing him beat Trump.
LOL. Sure bud. Definitely turning my “disingenuous” opinion around with all this dumb internet posturing.
Newsom with barrack Obama as VP
VP has to be allowed to become P.
Doesn’t actually say that in the constitution, it’s untested
It’s in the 12th amendment. Prior to that the VP was the runner up, so they had to be eligible to even be in the race.
Guess which court would rule on that issue.
deleted by creator
I don’t think that’s a disingenuous response. I can name a lot of people I liked who ran in the primaries in '20 as well as a slew of up and coming names. I don’t think they have as strong a chance as Biden.
Like many have already said, I think that focusing on a lackluster debate (in which he actually responded well based on the content of his responses and the policy he promoted) is not the way to go about this.
As much as I like other names for the presidency, I think Biden is our best shot at staving off disaster and he did get a lot done with the Inflation Reduction Act. Another four years of that policy trajectory is definitely something I can get behind. That’s at least a step in the right direction.
And I think Biden is going to lose and any of the shortlist names have a reasonable chance of injecting some life into the party and most importantly haven’t been fatally damaged, not by “a lackluster debate”, but by being unable to make coherent responses. Biden had lackluster debates in the 2020 primary, that didn’t invalidate him from being nominee, because it was just a poor performance, not indications that at least some of the time he’s incoherent.
You are assuming that the debate invalidated Biden for everyone else just because you feel that way. You also are very confident in your prediction of Biden losing, to the point of absurdity. Somehow you can predict the future now? Go on reference the “polls”!
All the (very liberal) late night hosts are making fun of him. Members of Congress are publicly saying he should step down. Donors are publicly abandoning him. Half of Democrats think he should step down. It doesn’t need to be everyone. He doesn’t have headroom to lose practically anyone.
I would never want to give you fake news. Stop the steal.
I’m just saying that not everyone thinks the president is some god king of America, and that democrats lead as a party anyways so what would it matter if Biden turns into a senile puppet until he dies, to be replaced by the next democrat who will follow the exact same policies as Biden was.
It just doesnt seem very dire. “What if he can’t keep a conversation soon!” Oh well, he can step down and kamala can take over.
Any democrat we replace Biden with for the election will have all the same issues with the same voter blocks. It seems like an over reaction both ways.
After the convention replacing the nominee becomes very hard, and we’d really like to not waste time with a nominee who can’t go out after 8 pm. And no, any replacement will not have the same issues. Not being able to campaign coherently is a major issue unique to Joe Biden. That’s huge. Campaigns are won or lost on the ability of the leader to sway people to their side.
I haven’t based any of my voting decisions on speeches in a long time. I just dont think thats a good way to learn about someone and their policies. I usually look to recent actions, and definitely Biden is a mixed bag, but the Democratic party is a mixed bag as a whole right now.
I’m seeing a lot of people pointing at what they see is a problem, but then posit no better solutions. I also dont think its right to expect perfection or bust like some others seem to say.
I do think its interesting that there are so many different opinions on all of this stuff. I’m not sure entirely why the different perspectives exist, I know they are all valid at least. For me, I see steady progress about as quick as I think possible, for others they might see no progress or backsliding, and at different speeds.
For me the right time to have chosen someone else besides Biden was in 2020. And I will also admit that I personally would vote for Bernie Sanders if he were running for president but I’m not sure he would actually perform better than Biden in voting nationally. I’d like to think he would, but I know some older voters who would vote for Biden wouldn’t vote for Bernie, so its hard to guess on.