Don’t care. I know its the solution. When it was voluntary, I tipped. Now that its some kind of requirement I refuse. The whole thing about tipping was to reward good service. When you got bad service you didn’t tip. Now its a farce. Now greedy businesses are using it to avoid paying a living wage. Tipping isn’t helping those people in any way. Its just guaranteeing they wont ever be paid enough.
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised to learn there’s a tablet being passed around so the office workers can tip the company that their company hired to clean this shit… I’m just mad I’m not seeing that money.
Don’t support businesses that directly engage in practices you claim to be against. Especially don’t support them and simultaneously make things worse for the staff while you do.
Neither are you. Tipping culture needs to die, and it either starts with the waitresses unionizing or something similar, or when no one tips forcing the prior to happen.
I guess the best choice then is to just stop going to these places? Like the other guy said, it must be a better idea to simply not give any business to these types of businesses until they die.
This message written from a computer; which was built using minerals mined from conflict areas blah blah-…
Don’t worry, I’m not actually blaming anyone on the topic of conflict minerals or anything; but I do think there are some issues/businesses where it’s not realistic to just not participate, and better to target better legislation to account for deceptive/evil businesses.
Agreed with your point that we just need to stop supporting businesses that use the the tip system. We also need to reward restaurants with our business for moving away from that great depression structure and pay livable wages. If a business can’t afford to pay it’s employees then that business shouldn’t exist. Tip culture these days is just a way for restaurants to advertise less for menu prices. Just raise your prices by 20% and pay that to the server.
Now there is a portion of servers that are against this, because they work in high scale fine dining places where they make more than 80% of other servers in diners and sports bars elsewhere, and that kinda sucks that they’d promote this antiquated system since it works for a select few.
Fucking over the tip staff is going to happen either way. It’s just one is a swift off with the head where the other one is a slow bleed.
It’s been interesting reading this comment chain because both sides share the same ideology as seems of wanting tipped culture to go away, it’s just they have vastly different opinions of how to do so.
Myself? I hate the tip structure as well. I tip for positions that require it so dine in and hair shops basically, but I believe that if everyone stop tipping at once the impact would be far less severe for the worker overall then if people just stopped going there. This is because when people stop going to an establishment there’s no clear Direction of why they’re no longer going to the establishment, so management may not correlate that with the pay structure of the employee so instead they’re going to reduce the hours on the employee while keeping the employee on payroll. On paper this sounds like a good idea, Until you realize that the employee is going to want to go elsewhere but they’re not going to want to risk their income Source by going elsewhere, so you now have a part-time employee who wants to find a job but is running into the same issue that people who work at Walmart have where every job out there who’s hiring for part-time wanrs open availability(open to close) and instantly by having that original job you’re finding yourself lower on the application list then the person who doesn’t have a job.
by just everyone refusing to tip, it’s very clear that their objecting the Mantra of tipped culture, and it will tell the worker that if they are not happy with the minimum wage that the establishment is willing to pay, that they need to start looking elsewhere, while also not lowering that employees hours due to the fact that customers are still coming to the establishment. The only difference is the employee is now making the minimum wage and the establishment is now paying the full wage no longer being subsidized by the customer.
I believe that everyone just no longer tipping in general is better because the worker while making less an hour (assuming tips make higher than min wage) is still working full shifts while being able to look for a job on the side. Where with everyone no longer going not only is the worker making less because they’re not getting the tip money, but they’re also working less while being given a lower priority on the application list.
This only works when everyone refuses to tip. Some guy going to a restaurant, not tipping, and leaving me with the minimum of $2.13 just makes my day worse. The business does not care. That’s why I left service in the first place.
I’ve had a $0 tip four times in one night before through no fault of my own (the patrons had even complimented me), but making enough to cover that minimum wage difference of only $5 an hour over the course of the week left absolutely no change for the company.
A person can’t claim to have the moral high ground by refusing to tip because eventually it’ll be better that way.
I get what you’re saying and I still begrudgingly tip every time unless the service is terrible which is rare. But if people boycott these businesses instead of going and not tipping wouldn’t that be just as bad if not worse for service workers than not tipping at all?
For example, if 80 percent of the people who regularly patronize restaurants stopped going, wouldn’t a lot of these businesses close resulting in these people losing their jobs entirely? It’s not a likely scenario but it’s an interesting thought experiment.
You’re assuming that it’s my responsibility to directly pay these people’s wages. I do but it’s a dumb argument that I disagree with. “let the businesses close and new ones open with better practices” is tantamount to saying “let these people find better jobs that don’t rely on tips to make a somewhat livable wage.”
You’re assuming that it’s my responsibility to directly pay these people’s wages.
It’s part of the current cost structure if you choose to go out and have your meal made for you and served to you. Don’t like it, don’t eat there. Simple as.
is tantamount to saying “let these people find better jobs that don’t rely on tips to make a somewhat livable wage.”
No, it’s literally saying let bad business die and better businesses replace them. The rest is your bullshit spin so you can feel better about fucking over wait staff.
I tip and tip well when I patronize these businesses. You seem to defend the business owners while placing all the blame on this fictional group of people that are gleefully “fucking over wait staff.” Also your tone is really hostile and confrontational.
Former server, but still: no-tippers stung for about five minutes but I almost always forgot about them by the end of the night. The only times I’d remember if someone didn’t tip was if they’d made a fuss beforehand, but if you were quiet and just didn’t leave a tip, I’d assume you just didn’t have the money and forget about it.
Most servers won’t tell you this, but they’re usually making several times over what they’d realistically be getting for a wage (think $20-$50/hr on a given night). One table isn’t killing them.
You aren’t helping anyone. Ask a few servers what they think about your opinion.
Don’t care. I know its the solution. When it was voluntary, I tipped. Now that its some kind of requirement I refuse. The whole thing about tipping was to reward good service. When you got bad service you didn’t tip. Now its a farce. Now greedy businesses are using it to avoid paying a living wage. Tipping isn’t helping those people in any way. Its just guaranteeing they wont ever be paid enough.
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised to learn there’s a tablet being passed around so the office workers can tip the company that their company hired to clean this shit… I’m just mad I’m not seeing that money.
That’s obvious.
Nah, you’re smart enough to know it isn’t. Not supporting those businesses is the solution if you truly believe they are engaging in bad practices.
Supporting them anyways, but fucking over the staff is just you being shitty.
I would ask you the solution but you don’t care if its ever solved and those hard working people get a fair deal.
He told you the solution, you didn’t need to ask. It was right there in the comment you’re replying to.
I get where you’re coming from, and I understand the frustration. But he is right, you’re only hurting the victims, not the perpetrators.
Don’t support businesses that directly engage in practices you claim to be against. Especially don’t support them and simultaneously make things worse for the staff while you do.
It’s not rocket science.
so those waitstaff don’t get tipped by you either way? How is not tipping them hurting them more than not going there?
That’s like crying about not tipping the waitress who didn’t serve you, because you weren’t in her section of the restaurant.
well, better eat twice, at two different tables, so that both staff get tipped.
Hmm, that’s a real stumper.
that’s not a quote from me, so… nice disingenious strawman, cunt.
It’s an accurate summary of the position you’ve taken here.
Neither are you. Tipping culture needs to die, and it either starts with the waitresses unionizing or something similar, or when no one tips forcing the prior to happen.
Fucking over wait staff isn’t the way to achieve that, and patting yourself on the back for doing it is despicable.
“I hate the way this business operates as it hurts their staff. So I’m going to support the business while also hurting the staff”
What kind of sick logic is that?
I guess the best choice then is to just stop going to these places? Like the other guy said, it must be a better idea to simply not give any business to these types of businesses until they die.
This message written from a computer; which was built using minerals mined from conflict areas blah blah-…
Don’t worry, I’m not actually blaming anyone on the topic of conflict minerals or anything; but I do think there are some issues/businesses where it’s not realistic to just not participate, and better to target better legislation to account for deceptive/evil businesses.
Correct.
So in both cases the staff gets fucked, and you would rather they find a new job then to make their job better… Kay.
Genius-level logic.
Maybe you should come up with a better solution then “You have to tip, otherwise you’re a horrible person and the problem!” Lmao. Get a grip.
I… did…
Are you brain damaged?
Agreed with your point that we just need to stop supporting businesses that use the the tip system. We also need to reward restaurants with our business for moving away from that great depression structure and pay livable wages. If a business can’t afford to pay it’s employees then that business shouldn’t exist. Tip culture these days is just a way for restaurants to advertise less for menu prices. Just raise your prices by 20% and pay that to the server.
Now there is a portion of servers that are against this, because they work in high scale fine dining places where they make more than 80% of other servers in diners and sports bars elsewhere, and that kinda sucks that they’d promote this antiquated system since it works for a select few.
Fucking over the tip staff is going to happen either way. It’s just one is a swift off with the head where the other one is a slow bleed.
It’s been interesting reading this comment chain because both sides share the same ideology as seems of wanting tipped culture to go away, it’s just they have vastly different opinions of how to do so.
Myself? I hate the tip structure as well. I tip for positions that require it so dine in and hair shops basically, but I believe that if everyone stop tipping at once the impact would be far less severe for the worker overall then if people just stopped going there. This is because when people stop going to an establishment there’s no clear Direction of why they’re no longer going to the establishment, so management may not correlate that with the pay structure of the employee so instead they’re going to reduce the hours on the employee while keeping the employee on payroll. On paper this sounds like a good idea, Until you realize that the employee is going to want to go elsewhere but they’re not going to want to risk their income Source by going elsewhere, so you now have a part-time employee who wants to find a job but is running into the same issue that people who work at Walmart have where every job out there who’s hiring for part-time wanrs open availability(open to close) and instantly by having that original job you’re finding yourself lower on the application list then the person who doesn’t have a job.
by just everyone refusing to tip, it’s very clear that their objecting the Mantra of tipped culture, and it will tell the worker that if they are not happy with the minimum wage that the establishment is willing to pay, that they need to start looking elsewhere, while also not lowering that employees hours due to the fact that customers are still coming to the establishment. The only difference is the employee is now making the minimum wage and the establishment is now paying the full wage no longer being subsidized by the customer.
I believe that everyone just no longer tipping in general is better because the worker while making less an hour (assuming tips make higher than min wage) is still working full shifts while being able to look for a job on the side. Where with everyone no longer going not only is the worker making less because they’re not getting the tip money, but they’re also working less while being given a lower priority on the application list.
This only works when everyone refuses to tip. Some guy going to a restaurant, not tipping, and leaving me with the minimum of $2.13 just makes my day worse. The business does not care. That’s why I left service in the first place. I’ve had a $0 tip four times in one night before through no fault of my own (the patrons had even complimented me), but making enough to cover that minimum wage difference of only $5 an hour over the course of the week left absolutely no change for the company. A person can’t claim to have the moral high ground by refusing to tip because eventually it’ll be better that way.
They don’t care about the actual workers, just being able to claim the moral high-ground while keeping some extra cash in their pockets.
It’s disgusting.
I get what you’re saying and I still begrudgingly tip every time unless the service is terrible which is rare. But if people boycott these businesses instead of going and not tipping wouldn’t that be just as bad if not worse for service workers than not tipping at all?
For example, if 80 percent of the people who regularly patronize restaurants stopped going, wouldn’t a lot of these businesses close resulting in these people losing their jobs entirely? It’s not a likely scenario but it’s an interesting thought experiment.
That’s a lot of mental gymnastics to do to justify supporting businesses that engage in practices you claim to be against.
Let them close and let new businesses with better practices take their place.
Really think about what you’re saying here: that continuing to support these businesses, but fucking over the staff is the moral high-ground.
You’re assuming that it’s my responsibility to directly pay these people’s wages. I do but it’s a dumb argument that I disagree with. “let the businesses close and new ones open with better practices” is tantamount to saying “let these people find better jobs that don’t rely on tips to make a somewhat livable wage.”
It’s part of the current cost structure if you choose to go out and have your meal made for you and served to you. Don’t like it, don’t eat there. Simple as.
No, it’s literally saying let bad business die and better businesses replace them. The rest is your bullshit spin so you can feel better about fucking over wait staff.
I tip and tip well when I patronize these businesses. You seem to defend the business owners while placing all the blame on this fictional group of people that are gleefully “fucking over wait staff.” Also your tone is really hostile and confrontational.
Please quote me doing that.
And yes, being proud of fucking over wait staff (I have many friends that are servers) makes me terse. What a shocker.
Former server, but still: no-tippers stung for about five minutes but I almost always forgot about them by the end of the night. The only times I’d remember if someone didn’t tip was if they’d made a fuss beforehand, but if you were quiet and just didn’t leave a tip, I’d assume you just didn’t have the money and forget about it.
Most servers won’t tell you this, but they’re usually making several times over what they’d realistically be getting for a wage (think $20-$50/hr on a given night). One table isn’t killing them.