A vote for Jill Stein, Cornel West, Oliver Chase, or not voting, is a vote for Trump. Palestinian lives don’t matter to Trump, nor do they really matter to Harris; however in general, Harris will be better for Americans than Trump, so vote for Harris.
A vote for Jill Stein, Cornel West, Oliver Chase, or not voting, is a vote for Trump.
Just as a vote for Nader was a vote for Bush.
Imagine if Nader didn’t run. Imagine there was no Green Party candidate for US President.
Gore would have probably won, and America would have been the better for it. Probably no Iraq war, maybe not even a 911. As a result Iran probably wouldn’t be as strong, and Putin probably would have less to legitimately oppose about the US, and would himself be seen as less legitimate—indeed Ukraine might still be whole today.
A new Green deal would probably be in full swing.
Granted, Harris doesn’t really care about Palestinians, and some elements of the Democratic party care even less; but Trump cares even less than Harris, and what he will do to the US will be worse.
So while Israel massacres civilians and steals more land, at least under Harris American women would still more easily get abortions, we will have fewer TGs committing suicide (maybe), and health care will be a little more universal.
Also with the 100% tariff on Chinese EVs, the Big 3 will be able to better produce good inexpensive cars (as they’ve been at least somewhat intending these past several decades), and fascism will have less of a hold on the US.
Therefore: vote for Harris.
If you are a progressive: vote for Harris.
If you are an environmentalist: vote for Harris.
If you are a libertarian: vote for Harris.
If you support voting reforms such as proportional representation, rank balloting, the abolition of the Electoral College, and/or more political diversity: vote for Harris.
If you are nauseated at the idea of voting for Harris: take a barf bag with you while you vote for Harris.
If you are a Palestinian-American who has a relative who was injured, maimed, or even murdered, in Gaza, you should still vote for Harris, because again, Trump doesn’t care about them either, but at least you, as an American citizen, will get a better deal Harris than under Trump.
(I’m not entirely sure if I agree with all the above, but I find it hard to refute.)
Voting 3rd party or abstaining for progressivism is the biggest self own in history.
With Gore, there definitely wouldn’t have been a war in Iraq. For Afghanistan, who knows. Even if it started out the same, without the drain of Iraq who knows what would have happened long term in Afghanistan.
With Gore, there might not even have been a 9/11 attack. The Clinton administration knew about Al Qaeda and was already actively working against them. The bush administration on the other hand chose to ignore numerous warnings from the CIA that an unprecedented attack was coming and that urgent action was needed.
A quote from the then CIA director of counter terrorism: “To me it remains incomprehensible still. I mean, how is it that you could warn senior people so many times and nothing actually happened? It’s kind of like The Twilight Zone.”
But later when it came to the torture bit, the Bush administration was very hands on.
https://www.politico.eu/article/attacks-will-be-spectacular-cia-war-on-terror-bush-bin-laden/
And even with 9/11 things could have been different. There was a chorous of people at the time calling for a new Manhattan Project-style focus on renewable energy. Why didn’t anyone hear it? W Bush’s chants of ‘Drill baby drill’ were much louder - obviously because he and his party were in charge.
Trump’s term was not inconsequential either. For one - he installed three ultra-conservative Supreme Court justices - whatever your left leaning stripes are sure you realize that was devastating to the causes you hold dear. They’ll rule for their orthodox conservative Christian capitalist darlings for the rest of their lives and we can’t afford another one like them.
A lot can change very fast in this world and I fear a lot of Americans don’t realize how serious and cruel life can suddenly get. The corruption that will be encouraged in another Trump administration WILL touch your life and it could be anything from higher expenses via his tarrifs and unclean drinking water via weakening the EPA, to your mom or sister or wife being denied life saving care and watching our environment go from bad to worse.
Bush had billions of personal reasons to allow a 9/11 type event. His family profited immensely from the wars that followed, and he used the event as a catalyst for the Patriot Act and other sweeping changes which he had ready to go. He and his ilk were waiting and hoping for a major event to usher in their new world order.
Voting 3rd party or abstaining for progressivism is the biggest self own in history.
Well said.
I am fucking sick and tired of all these terminally-naive ideologues trying to destroy all of us with their purity-test-turned-suicide-pact.
Politics is compromise.
Except with fascists. You never, ever compromise with them.
The “compromise” that you vote for the DNC’s chosen one, or else!? That’s not compromise, broheim.
Trump must not win.
I don’t disagree with you there, but I do disagree with pretty much everything else you said.
There is only one way for him not to win, and it’s not by voting third party.
Voting third party is worrying about your flat tire while the car is in fire going 100 mph. Yes the flat tire is a very real concern but if the car blows up the flat tire won’t matter.
There’s other ways for him not to win.
Democrats might help out Chase Oliver.
Harris might also get, say, 5% of Americans who typically vote for the apathy party to vote Democrat.
Ok
inhale
Living thru this election is being strapped in a burning swerving greyhound bus and both drivers are fighting over the intercom about illegal trans-immigrant surgery instead of watching the road the intercom is broken but no one’s listening anyway we’re all screaming at the drivers cuz we’re crushing bodies left and right and anyway our hairs on fucking fire and then we realize (holy shit neither of these assholes will stop the bus) and we start struggling but the belts are too tight or maybe they’re the only thing keeping us from flying out the side and then while we’re fighting and burning we look out the window and we see a guy on the sidewalk and he’s holding a sign
BE
REASONABLE
This issue is far more Nuance then this post would have you believe…
Before I go on let me say I’m voting blue and want Democrats to win.
But if the only support you are willing to show our Palestinian and Arab brothers and sisters are these half hearted, backhanded, and condescending social media posts about how you know what’s best. Well, you are in for a rude awakening. People that actually care about genicide will just stay home on election day.
These comments and posts do nothing but prove we don’t care about each other, unless it personally effects us in some way. If you really care get off you ass and actual help the Palestinian and Arab communities! the least you can do is call your federal and state senators daily to demand they publicly condemn Israel and the IDF and divest from all institutions that give money to them. But no these posts and comments will get Palestinians and Arabs on our side? This is what conservatives do. We are better than this.
The most you should be doing is calling your senators, marching with anti zionest, getting partitions, and getting involved with the Palestinian and Arab communities to help. Show them the blue base cares and won’t abandon them the moment Harris or Trump is in office. I have Palestinian friends and they would spit in your face if you said this kind of bullshit to their face because of how absurd it is. Some comments call them selfish for people caring about the genicide of their friends and family and saying Trump would be worse. Ya no shit, but it wasn’t Trump that enabled the killing of 40k people in the last 12 months. That’s not accounting for the Yemen deaths we the democrats have enabled. You should be more mad at your own parties actions as it’s your vote that current has blood on it.
All I’m saying is these posts and comments aren’t helping anyone. Get involved. Don’t just post behind a screen and expect people to see the light. If we don’t care why should they?
I’m Canadian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Canada
We have a Liberal leader who is about as useless on this issue as Biden and Harris, a Conservative leader who’s a Trump-wannabe, an NDP leader who wants Canada to recognize Palestine, a BQ leader who might have similar sentiments, and 2 Greens who might be less pro-Palestinian than the NDP.
I also know a Palestinian. He’s a good man. I don’t think I ever talked about politics with him as I think he has a long enough row to hoe as it is.
The sad thing is, at this point it should be a no-brainer, but here we are. Two weeks from what might be the single most important election of our lifetimes, and we’re STILL having to explain it to people.
Common sense can’t be taught, but one would think it should be learned by example. It clearly Isn’t.
In American Presidential politics it’s the short term that matters: don’t vote for Harris because she’s good (she’s not), but vote against Trump because he’s a monster.
the single most important election of our lifetimes
Americans are sick and tired of hearing this every four years. We want a functional government that isn’t on the cusp of destruction at all times.
America is too mixed (culturally, politically, religiously) for that. If you want a government that is stable you’ll need to move to a different country or invent some framework of cooperation in which an act (such as being gay or having an abortion or not wanting to pay as much in taxes to bomb colored kids in other countries for seemingly no reason) won’t be construed as blasphemy by those who see it as such. It’s an impossible ask that ignores the divide in who we are.
I’m certain that doing nothing or voting third party will move mountains towards the change you’d like to see.
Obligatory /s.
I’ve voted in every election for longer than many Lemmings have been alive. That doesn’t change the statement I made. It’s possible to be frustrated and still participate.
This is true. Won’t deny that. Absolutely be frustrated. It’s a frustrating time to be alive right now.
Then maybe focus on that goal for the other 3 years of the cycle. And focus on local first and building a foundation.
You know, like all the people here repeatedly tell you.
And now that actually fascism is at our doorstep people are too exhausted to care? We have to always care. Keeping a democracy in tact and free of corruption isn’t a set it and forget it system.
This is not the first time we’ve faced fascism, nor will it be the last. I didn’t say people are too tired to care, but they are sick of the hyperbole.
I get that, but if the risk is real is it really hyperbole? I’m honestly not trying to be extreme but the guy said you won’t have to vote again and that he wants to be a dictator. He said he wants to lock up news channels that say bad things about him. I mean, it doesn’t feel like hyperbole to me.
That’s true, but the guy also lies about literally everything. If he’s talking, he’s lying. So I question if he actually has the will to implement the changes he rants about, or if it’s just his regular word salad string of consciousness, and if he does have the will, I seriously doubt he has the ability.
So the defense to him saying and doing terrible things is that he lies, I dunno.
My honest take is they would boot him pretty quick and have JD step up once elected. There’s enough there to deem him unfit after he pulls in the votes they want. Plus JD could run again.
In no way, shape, or form, have I ever, nor will I ever defend trump.
Yawn…
Yeah so I got downvoted for pointing out Michigan only got gerrymandering removed because it was a non partisan demand introduced via petition, and even then it took until 2020 to be passed as law because both parties fought back until the dems gave in when they realized it would help them win for the next election. And yes I still voted blue and I also voted for that measure.
Not only does this failure of a post completely ignore how people react to policy, it actually claims that the big 3 OEMs will manufacture cars worth a damn, let alone be inexpensive, which everyone in
DetroitSE Michigan, regardless of their political affiliation, will tell you is a load of horseshit.So I will be sitting here watching you fools do a repeat of 2016 since evidently no one learned from their mistakes.
Been saying Michigan will be red since last year just over the basic demand of maybe not funding a genocide.
I’m sure after no one believed Clinton’s liberal shilling, people will definitely believe in Harris’s local policies with her excellent history of state prosecutor.
If Harris loses, the first thing the DNC and all you corporate shills will do is blame 3rd party voting and not actually the fact that they refused to meet constituents’ demands. No one out here is voting 3rd party because they think they’re going to win.
The whole purpose of a Democracy is that you should be able to utilize your voting power to demand significant change. Harris already blew off the uncommitted movement, which means that:
- She thinks she can win without several millions of voters
- She has no issue losing to Trump if it means keeping Israel happy
At least a seasoned politician would try to maximize appeal if he/she knew their opponent was dangerous if he wins.
Flailing and talking about how Trump would be worse at the same time as willingly ignoring a significant portion of voters is not the marking of a quality campaign nor candidate. It only makes Trump sound less severe, and Harris sound more useless.
I can’t even imagine actually walking up to a Palestinian American with this argument in hand. Best case you get shoved away. Worst case scenario you get socked in the jaw.
I just got a call from “the spoiler effect” and it says you trying to give 3rd parties credit for all the hard work it and FPTP voting have been doing to ensure people’s voices aren’t heard.
Please watch the most important political video in the history of youtube:
It even has cute jungle animals!
I just watched it.
(It’s 6:30 long.)
It’s a good video. 🙂
great video, not relevant to the situation.
deleted by creator
If the Dems lose it will be their own fault, not the fault of the public. They can change their policies of they want to win.
It’s amazing how it’s always up to millions of Americans to ignore their principles and vote Kamala to defeat Trump and never on just one person - Kamala Harris - to uphold the principles she claims to stand for (you know, not being a fucking Fascist) and stop supporting the sending of weapons and ammo to an ethno-Fascist State actively and shamelessly commit Genocide.
It’s almost as if whatever person gets the candidacy in the Democrat Party (which as we know since Bernie Sanders vs Hilary Clinton is really all about what the people in the DNC want) immediately become some kind of Monarch anointed by God Almighty himself and hence whose wishes are Immutable Law and beyond criticism.
The whole thing is a ridiculous display of mindless tribalism and brainless muppet mindset.
It’s amazing to me to hear that you believe, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that millions of Americans have any principles whatsoever.
There’s 350 millions of Americans and even if only 1% had any real principles, that’s still 3.5 million people.
Personally I don’t think the problem in the US is any greater lack of principles than anywhere else, but rather the constant brainwashing from the local Media environment and quite a lot of Stockholm Syndrome derived from being in the main de facto powerless in that deeply disfunctional political system (which, frankly, I’m not so sure qualifies as an actual Democracy).
It’s not giving up your principals, it’s living in reality. If candidate A will make the world perfect but would never get elected, you voting for them does nothing. And if you think Trump and Harris are usually as bad, and can’t acknowledge the risl he poses then you have your head in the sand. The man said people wouldn’t have to vote again, he wants to lock up news stations who say he things about him, he said he wants to be a dictator, he wants to just give Russia parts of Ukraine. Come on, seriously.
People need to look at options and see where they can make impact. Voting third party is saying %10 better isn’t good enough, I’ll vote for %100 better and risk things getting much worse. This is rigid morals causing more harm than good.
The term “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” has never been more true.
If my only choice is one person that I don’t like, who nobody voted for in the primaries, then I question the assumption that I had a choice at all. Democracy? Is it?
First past the post needs to die. I challenge you to look up which politicians have tried to fix it, and which side of the current two-sided political climate they were on.
or at least add something like a run-off.
So many easy ways to fix it. Politicians just haven’t been interested, and it’s a shame we have to focus on things like the culture war, wealth divide, and etc vs just fixing our outdated political system. Especially in a republic that considers itself to be the bastion of democracy and freedom :/
Non-votes and votes for third parties are counted as votes for republicans? What kind of electoral magic is this and why can’t democrats get the same effect?
If you abstain from voting for the “lesser of two evils”, you make things more difficult for that candidate and easier for the other.
Lemmy happens to be a more left-leaning bunch so often this means hurting Harris and helping Trump. The same post would be reversed if posted on Truth Social.
Unfortunately, the US election system is a 2-party system. Protest votes do nothing to change that.
Then the effect balances out. They should try being appealing to voters instead of using the threat of “the other guy” in a hopeless race to the bottom.
They don’t seem to want to help Chase Oliver, I suppose.
Good logic. A vote for them is also a vote not for trump. So a vote for them is a vote for Harris.
That doesn’t work simply because in this election one side wishes to uphold democracy, while the other is on the record stating they’ll “have it fixed” and you “won’t have to vote in 4 years”. So you do you… But what you’ve said is just ignorant of the actuality of the choice you currently have. (Lol @ the down votes. The cognitive dissonance is lovely. Hope ya’ll hold remember it when the civil war breaks out as democracy dies because you refused to vote in a binary election against agent orange)
Votes dont count for people you don’t vote for, that’s a stupid claim and every claimant who says this secretly knows this. That’s why much effort is put in explaining why something so stupid is actually the truth, “cuz of how fptp works”
But it’s not. It’s not how voting works, you know, we know, an’ no amount of “buttrumpin” makes it so. Don’t effin @me with long-winded explanations bluewarriors, i have been hearin every excuse the Dems can make for tripping over their own failures for 30 ish voting years. Some, (like screaming at the green party for being spoilers (Nader lol) are literally older than some voters itt.
Don’t carry water for Dems, my blue-team pit-fighters, your energy would be better served spent convincing D party membership to fix their platform to be one more popular.
That’s why much effort is put in explaining why something so stupid is actually the truth, “cuz of how fptp works”
This is true for most ideologies that require crazy explanations and eventual capitulation to counter-intuitive logic. If your claims require entire social movements to make sense, they’re probably bullshit.
Thank you for saying this!
I’m so sick of these disingenuous voting posts.
Some people just don’t live in reality and don’t know how the world works. They can’t seem to understand the world isn’t as perfect as they are.
and it ain’t gonna change.
I suppose—assuming the US lasts under it’s present constitution (as it has been for over 240 years)—the next, say, 20 Presidents (from now until 2104 to 2184) will either be Democrat or Republican.
I suppose too, in a few decades, Palestine will be mostly “Palestinian-frei.”
Well done Democrats.
I suppose someone as perfect and pure as yourself can run for office
Well done, Democrat.
an upvote for you—for nothing.
Wow, so generous. We NEED someone like you as president. I’ve never interacted with a more perfect person in my entire life.
back at ya. 😁🙂
