@[email protected] is definitively correct, as the UN and other anthropological experts agree.
Palestinians have been and still are suffering a genocide at the hands of the Israeli military policy of the IDF and Netanyahu.
The term genocide was assigned to the israeli-Palestinian “conflict” years ago by the UN as a progression of the Israeli apartheid system, and has been recently reaffirmed for those who were unsure (https://press.un.org/en/2024/gapal1473.doc.htm) since it’s more obvious since last year than ever that the Palestinian people and their culture are being deliberately erased from their homeland on ethnic, cultural and national bases.
Neutral point here but what is the policy if a hypothetical tribe being genocided away was itself genocidal? How do you balance those interests in a humane, stablizing way?
the previous relevant comments refer not to a debate of policy, to be clear, simply a matter of fact.
in the context of this thread, the answer to your first question is: you have two genocidal tribes.
as for the second, I don’t have nearly enough information about your two theoretical tribes to offer an answer. how large are the two tribes? how are their genocides being perpetrated? why? where are the two tribes located, specifically and in relation to each other? are the two tribes related somehow? Why would you try to balance the interests of genocidal tribes instead of thwarting genocide? Why is it your responsibility to balance their interests? do you have the capability to balance their interests?
“There’s nothing that would change your view anyway.”
evidence does.
Israel is and has been extrajudicially killing Palestinian citizens for half a century, and especially now are specifically eradicating their ethnicity, culture, and nationality.
Israel is trying to erase the Palestinian state according to the definition of genocide.
“politics aren’t all about truth”
this explains your confusion.
you’re openly admitting that you’re using lies to spread a false narrative.
I don’t see your end game, but it is a sensible admission.
When I stated that politics are not all about truth, I was referring to why you’ve been told lies by politicians. Maybe you should read it again to understand it. And now that you’ve been intellectually dishonest I’ll say have a good day. You’re very much a victim of propaganda.
This is a genocide on an incarcerated population, within an Apartheid State, founded on Ethnic Cleansing, which is central to Zionism. Israel has no right to do any of those things. The only real solution is a regime change to a One-State Solution with equal rights for all Israelis and Palestinians.
Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction
that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
If you’re just learning that politicians don’t always tell the truth, you should avoid doling out political advice for a while.
Jesus nobody said I was just learning this. Where did I say that? Nowhere.
At this point I’m certain you’re not reading a goddamn thing that I write, just waiting to write more. You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation and therefore a total waste of my time. Have a good day, troll.
I’m reading all of your vague irrelevant implications, they’re just completely immaterial to what we’re talking about.
they don’t matter, so I don’t care.
“You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation”
your claim is that Israel is not committing a genocide according to the definition of genocide.
you have no evidence to support your claim.
according to the definition of genocide, Israel is committing genocide against Palestine right now systematically persecuting their ethnicity, culture and nationality.
you have no rebuttal to the genocide and you have no evidence for your false claim.
You are wrong.
@[email protected] is definitively correct, as the UN and other anthropological experts agree.
Palestinians have been and still are suffering a genocide at the hands of the Israeli military policy of the IDF and Netanyahu.
The term genocide was assigned to the israeli-Palestinian “conflict” years ago by the UN as a progression of the Israeli apartheid system, and has been recently reaffirmed for those who were unsure (https://press.un.org/en/2024/gapal1473.doc.htm) since it’s more obvious since last year than ever that the Palestinian people and their culture are being deliberately erased from their homeland on ethnic, cultural and national bases.
Neutral point here but what is the policy if a hypothetical tribe being genocided away was itself genocidal? How do you balance those interests in a humane, stablizing way?
entirely depends on the situation.
the previous relevant comments refer not to a debate of policy, to be clear, simply a matter of fact.
in the context of this thread, the answer to your first question is: you have two genocidal tribes.
as for the second, I don’t have nearly enough information about your two theoretical tribes to offer an answer. how large are the two tribes? how are their genocides being perpetrated? why? where are the two tribes located, specifically and in relation to each other? are the two tribes related somehow? Why would you try to balance the interests of genocidal tribes instead of thwarting genocide? Why is it your responsibility to balance their interests? do you have the capability to balance their interests?
Believe what you want to. There’s nothing that would change your view anyway.
Also pssst here’s a secret: politics aren’t all about truth SSHHHHHH don’t tell anyone!!!
“Believe what you want to.”
facts and definitons aren’t based on belief.
“There’s nothing that would change your view anyway.”
evidence does.
Israel is and has been extrajudicially killing Palestinian citizens for half a century, and especially now are specifically eradicating their ethnicity, culture, and nationality.
Israel is trying to erase the Palestinian state according to the definition of genocide.
“politics aren’t all about truth”
this explains your confusion.
you’re openly admitting that you’re using lies to spread a false narrative.
I don’t see your end game, but it is a sensible admission.
You’ve been duped and you don’t know it.
When I stated that politics are not all about truth, I was referring to why you’ve been told lies by politicians. Maybe you should read it again to understand it. And now that you’ve been intellectually dishonest I’ll say have a good day. You’re very much a victim of propaganda.
This is a genocide on an incarcerated population, within an Apartheid State, founded on Ethnic Cleansing, which is central to Zionism. Israel has no right to do any of those things. The only real solution is a regime change to a One-State Solution with equal rights for all Israelis and Palestinians.
Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism
Settlements and Occupation
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
Apartheid Evidence
Amnesty Report
Human Rights Watch Report
B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
Historian Works on the History
Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
“You’ve been duped and you don’t know it.”
more vague fabrications?
not as convincing as you hope.
“I was referring to why you’ve been told lies by politicians.”
my evidence is from credible news sources with long-term reliability, not politicians, which you put too much stock in.
If you’re just learning that politicians don’t always tell the truth, you should avoid doling out political advice for a while.
“You’re very much a victim of propaganda.”
oh, more vague insults without any evidence?
look at that.
instead of making things up, try to address the points I’ve made.
you know, the very clear definition of genocide being perpetrated by Israel, going back half a century?
The actual relevant material in this thread.
you can continue making stuff up and sounding clueless, but exposing your ignorance isn’t doing you any favors so far.
Jesus nobody said I was just learning this. Where did I say that? Nowhere.
At this point I’m certain you’re not reading a goddamn thing that I write, just waiting to write more. You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation and therefore a total waste of my time. Have a good day, troll.
They’re literally quoting you and responding to the literal quote.
You just don’t like what they’re saying.
FYI you argue in terrible faith
“you’re not reading a goddamn thing that I write”
I’m reading all of your vague irrelevant implications, they’re just completely immaterial to what we’re talking about.
they don’t matter, so I don’t care.
“You’re dishonest in your approach to the conversation”
your claim is that Israel is not committing a genocide according to the definition of genocide.
you have no evidence to support your claim.
according to the definition of genocide, Israel is committing genocide against Palestine right now systematically persecuting their ethnicity, culture and nationality.
you have no rebuttal to the genocide and you have no evidence for your false claim.
“Have a good day”
done and done.