By “skilled immigrants” I mean people with advance degrees (PhD, MD, …) holding all types of highly technical and managerial positions.
Asking this because skilled immigrants, at least in theory:
- knows, and has first-hand experience of how much bullshit one has to go through to immigrate,
- has enough bargaining power to move to another immigration-friendly country,
- let’s just say that the upcoming US policies don’t seem to be friendly to any immigrants at all…
But then US tech and research are supported largely by the same skilled immigrants. So I’m curious how that is supposed to play out…
Sorry this is a bit of a strange question.
P.S.: I’m… not asking for a friend. I’ve been constantly worried for the past two weeks; I try not to rush to conclusions, so the fact that I’m still worried concerns me. Double quotation marks because in the US it’s literally the same government agency that manages all immigrants no matter how they got in the country (highly skilled worker, family of citizen, asylum, literally just crossed the border, …)
Yeah actually, most H1Bs are making more than they could in their home countries and more than most Americans too. Big Tech salaries are upwards of $300k. There is a lot of incentive to stay.
Another point to consider is a very large percentage of H1Bs are Indian and a lot of them support Modi. They also support Trump by extension and believe that Trump only wants to crack down on “illegal” migrants, not them, despite the fact that Trump tried to curb the H1B program during his last term and Biden reversed it.
As far as I’m aware, Trump plans to remove all immigrants, whether documented or not, and even green card holders. I don’t think he will have much luck with it, but maybe I’m wrong.
Start applying for jobs outside the US. Finding a job is usually the longest part of moving.
You may want to try applying for citizenship at the same time, assuming you even want to stay for 2025-2028.
I’m speaking as a US citizen whose life would be improved by your presence in the US.
America is built from immigrants. Everyones family except native Americans are immigrants. Skilled professionals will always be wanted in their area of expertise.
Pay attention and be aware of any upcoming changes, but don’t work yourself up over Trump. It’s natural to be worried.
Hell, the native Americans are immigrants too, they’re just the descendants of the first ones to get here.
I’m not saying this to detract from the point of the land being stolen by invaders from Europe, I’m saying it to point out that every nation in North, South, and Central America was populated by groups moving here looking for a good place to live. It’s the single most fundamental fact of the continents that we are all, all linked by something; we’re all one big, extended family.
I wouldn’t go that far. Might as well say anyone outside of Africa is an immigrant at that point.
Go back even further, we’re all immigrants from the ocean
We all migrated from the stars.
Well, yeah, that’s the point. I didn’t bring Europe and Asia into it since the original thing was about the U.S., but it applies there too. It applies everywhere.
We aren’t some magically unique group because of where we live. There’s no inherent barrier between people just because someone got somewhere first.
I’m not saying that there’s no point in borders, or that nations don’t/can’t have rules about such things.
I’m just saying that when it comes to the U.S. and the rhetoric around immigration and immigrants, there’s a lot less differences between everyone over on these continents than differences.
Natives are pre-colonization, by definition
Well, yes and no.
Wherever the first humans existed are fully native, if the people there descend from the first humans in a relatively straight line. Which, we all come from them, but anyone that moved away and their descendants came back, it would be hard guy else descendants in particular to claim to be natives there.
Anyone and everyone else had ancestors that colonized somewhere. Like, the mayans were descendants of colonists, just not European colonists. Same for Cherokee, Cree, Inca, Hopi, whoever. Their ancestors got here first for sure, and they colonized these continents. So, they’re native, but not pre-colonization because nobody was here until they came here from somewhere else.
So, yeah, in one context, if you only refer to the people that came after whoever got there first as colonists and pretend that that’s the only meaning of colonization, then that definition fits. But it isn’t the only definition, and it’s not the one under discussion here.
To give a different view on it, what would we call the first humans to go to Mars and stay there? Colonists, right? We’d have a colony on mars.
You can use the word native to mean the people born on mars, and that’s what you were saying, that the people born in a place are native to that place, and any further waves are called something that. But with other definitions of native, it’s impossible for there to ever be human natives on mars at all, because nobody evolved on mars that we know of.
And that’s what I’m getting at. Here in the U.S. in specific, and across the Americas in general, everyone came from somewhere else originally, regardless of how long ago that was.
Which is why I personally prefer the way Canada refers to the people that were here first, as First Nations. They conquered and colonized this side of the planet first. The rest of us need to respect that, but we also need to recognize and respect that being an immigrant isn’t a bad thing at all because everyone here is either an immigrant or the descendants of immigrants. We’re connected in that way, and should treat each other more as neighbors and family than insiders and outsiders.
Sure, you can use those terms symanticlly to go all the way back in time, but with respect to world history, the “era of colonization” was between the 15th century and 1960. And native/indigenous people were the people that existed in their respective regions before the 15th century. By definition.
Dude, you’re off on a tangent about semantics (That’s the spelling, btw), which is not at all the point.
Which is fine, or if you didn’t keep saying “by definition” as though there’s only one fucking definition and usage. So, while I respect the inaccurate pedantry effort, I’m not interested. If you want to argue about semantics, it might be useful to actually understand what they are, and why your insistence on one single usage isn’t accurate semantically.
One aspect of semantics is the study of usages of words, or the multiple meanings and interpretation of words.
And, by definition in the common internet available dictionaries, rather than the field specific jargon you keep repeating like it’s useful for the discussion here, you aren’t using an actual definition in common usage.
So, my homie, again, I appreciate some pedantry, but you’re not just being tangential, you’re inaccurate, which means there’s no point to further interaction about this. I’m done
I agree. Trump talks a lot, but the final result is usually unpredictable. If you are here legally and you have a desire to stay, I would wait and see what happens, while also setting aside some savings in case you need to move.
Absolutely. I’m with you 100%
Just don’t go crazy worrying about it 24/7
I work in big tech, and in the US there is a lot of money being thrown at knowledge workers. IMO it’s not a bad thing, but I do wish that other workers also got their fair share.
Regardless, the dirty secret of these companies is that a big part of your compensation is usually restricted stock units, and when you relocate through work to a different country you usually get to keep the same amount of stock. You’ll get a good base pay, but your stock once vested will usually put you leaps and bounds above the average pay.
So, work for one of these companies that pays stock, and move to the UK, France, Germany, somewhere with a MUCH cheaper cost of living and better social net. At a high enough level, you could arguably quit your job and prop up your future salary from interest.
UK lower cost!?! Living from dividend? This is full of bs
that comment reads like the person got his information from CNBC skit paid by mega corp…
just to move to EU after you earned enough RSUs to retire all within 5 years🤡
Yes, there are other options however it’s a balance of how hard it is vs what country is most convenient vs how many visas get granted.
I went from South America to Australia. The time zone and air travel distance sucks big time and matter when getting in touch with family. South American presence here is minimal so restaurants and culture are hard to find. But I’m not afraid my son will get killed while getting mugged. And that tips the balance even a bit more than my ability to have stable finances.
Only for as long as it takes for them to reach Canada.
lower wages with higher housing costs 🤡
The sad part is that the brunt of this will likely be borne by nationals from countries that the US President has officially deemed “shithole countries”. Or, in other words, not white. You only have to look at his “Muslim ban” from last time, and know that he will expand it, to see how bad things are gonna get.
You may think you have some protection if you are a permanent resident. And you may have some protection if you are in a state that will not assist the Federal government in rounding people up. But you will continue to deal with the hassle every time you enter or leave the country. Which state you live in doesn’t matter at the border (and the airports are technically borders).
In my uninformed opinion, if you decide to stay, you shouldn’t make any plans to leave the country, because you will never really know if your authorization to stay in the country will be arbitrarily denied while you are away. It is probably better to just plan that the next time you leave the country, it will be for the foreseeable future. We will, unfortunately, not be very hospitable to you for the next 4 years (and maybe longer). Unless you are white. Which is all sorts of wrong. But the way it is these days.
This is the most important bit: If you weren’t born in the US and aren’t white skinned, avoid any border crossings from 2025-2028 if you expect to get back in.
So it might be worth planning a location outside the US where you can meet up with those you care about if things DO go sideways.
There is very little point for ANYONE to stay if they don’t have to (unless they want to fight for freedom like our ancestors had to). If you have a way of escaping, definitely take it.
Oh I have a way of escaping alright. As a poor disabled LGBTQIA+ person I have exactly one way of escaping, and I plan to take it.
988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline… We’ll need everyone
Thank you
Don’t do that. If you are at the end, then fight smart.
I appreciate you
Don’t give up before he starts. Pre-submitting will lose it all.
Do get light and transfer cash out.
Lmao just gtfo and let the idiots lie in the orange bed they built.
As a skilled migrant that emigrated out of the US, no. There are plenty of companies in the EU that would love your talent and are more than willing give you better job protection and higher quality of life.
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I don’t expect anything catastrophic to happen so suddenly that I won’t have time to flee.
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Everyone I know is here, including people who depend on me.
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I don’t want to learn another language.
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I feel a lot less connected to the USA than I did before, but I don’t feel more connected to any other country than I do to the USA. The one my family and I came from is a huge mess and I certainly don’t want to return to it.
I’m taking the idea of leaving the country much more seriously than I had before, but it still seems unlikely.
I don’t expect anything catastrophic to happen so suddenly that I won’t have time to flee.
Trump said he’s going to use the military to round up immigrants on day one of his office. Better make sure you carry your papers on you so you don’t accidentally get swept up.
I don’t see why I would be in any more danger than a native-born American citizen.
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Immigrants often have families in their new country. You can’t think about those people as individuals because they would likely stay for their family, which would be hard to move.
Friends and family. They might even like their local community. Tons of reasons.
NPR was literally talking about this earlier in the morning, specifically within academia. I forget the speaker, but they cited that after Brexit, neighboring countries saw a rise in quality researchers who opted not to stay or study in the UK.
Honestly, even 2016 gives us some insight though and if I recall correctly, it never really caused significant brain drain. A little hard to measure people who never were here to begin with, but even my wife mentioned her reason for staying after the election and it’s because there’s still money to be made here.
Your third point is quite a leap.
