cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20091173

I’ve been waiting until after Christmas day to make this post, but some of our communities recently have had a lot of noise and upset over someone that uses neopronouns that most people are unfamiliar with.

So I want to make this clear. A persons pronouns are to be respected. This is true when the user is using neopronouns that you’re unfamiliar with. It’s true even if you think someone is trolling. Pronouns are not rewards for good behaviour. They aren’t only to be respected when you like the person you’re interacting with, or if their pronouns “make sense” to you. Trolls, spammers, twitter users, it doesn’t matter who they are, your options are to respect their pronouns, or to not engage with them.

I really want to re-iterate the importance of this. Gender diverse folk are undermined, invalidated and questioned at every step of our lives. As a community, we need to be working to undo that, not creating more of it, and that means there is no space for treating pronouns (including neopronouns) as a reward for good behaviour.

This isn’t a free reign for trolls and spammers. The rules still apply. Trolling, spamming, etc will continue to be dealt with, but it’s not an excuse to act as if respecting someones pronouns is optional.

  • Julian@lemm.eeEnglish
    335·
    2 days ago

    A lot of people say the same things about trans folks in terms of gay rights. Some people might be fucking around, but drawing a line in the sand like that is going to inevitably invalidate people with legitimate identities. And if you really don’t want to use them, it’s super easy to just ignore. Idk if I’ve ever even had to refer to someone with third person pronouns on Lemmy.

    • shani66@ani.social
      2·
      1 day ago

      Even if we take the person pug is talking about at face value (which, frankly, we shouldn’t for them in particular), it’s not a gender identity. It’s just an identity. We don’t have a pronoun for every granular identity under the sun, so it’s weird we accept that some people feel the need to have totally unique ones, which goes against the point of pronouns to begin with.

      That said, being referred to in the third person would actually be fine imo, but I’ve been primed for that by being a weeb.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
      262·
      2 days ago

      Some people might be fucking around, but drawing a line in the sand like that is going to inevitably invalidate people with legitimate identities.

      All concepts are just lines in the sand, even down into STEM. Lines have to be drawn somewhere. The question is whether the new line drawn or erased disrupts other lines, who it benefits, and what it’s worth. I happen to have a very low opinion of the idea that gender is entirely arbitrary and without any line in the sand, and that “I identify as an attack helicopter” is not a conservative defamation of the trans and NB community, but a legitimate point of view.

      And if you really don’t want to use them, it’s super easy to just ignore.

      The commenter was removed and banned for disagreeing with the concept that dragonfucker is a gender. On the meta comm for the instance. Under a post by the main admin.

      Idk if I’ve ever even had to refer to someone with third person pronouns on Lemmy.

      Dragonfucker has been banned from a number of communities for insisting on just that.

      • Jumuta
        7·
        2 days ago

        the human brain is good enough of a prediction machine to not need a clean linear line in the sand imo, I’d like to believe that our judgement ability is closer to a support vector machine than a simple one dimensional ‘greater than’ statement

        e.g. you’d know if someone was actually identifying as an attack helicopter as opposed to trolling by saying so, right? maybe it’s just a phase for them but people have phases (imo) because they need to probe and gather first hand experience to learn

        • klemptor@startrek.website
          231·
          2 days ago

          you’d know if someone was actually identifying as an attack helicopter as opposed to trolling by saying so, right?

          IRL maybe, but the issue here is that (at least from what I’ve observed) dragonfucker can be pretty confrontational, as if seeking a fight. It’s obnoxious behavior and generally I roll my eyes and move along. I do think identifying as a “dragonfucker” for gender is hard to take as anything other than a long-running troll job, particularly because 1) dragons aren’t real and even if they were, 2) “dragonfucker” is surely a hobby or job description, not a gender. Most reasonable people would find this ludicrous at first glance, and have their opinion confirmed by this user’s strident tone and eagerness to take offense. It seems really unlikely that this person sincerely identifies as a dragonfucker (and honestly I can’t even believe we’re having this debate).

          I really try to be balanced and understanding, but this user in particular seems to seek negative attention. Which is fine I guess, but I feel bad for anyone who falls into that trap.

      • Julian@lemm.eeEnglish
        5·
        2 days ago

        I thought the post was about neopronouns in general. Didn’t know the drag example was the main concern and thought it was just an exaggerated example.