The FIA's senior figure on F1 cars has expressed a worry Audi could quit if V10 engines are re-introduced to grand prix racing.

The FIA’s senior figure on F1 cars has expressed a worry Audi could quit if V10 engines are re-introduced to grand prix racing.

  • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
    31·
    5 days ago

    Of the big lies the competitors to electric propulsion successfully spread is that hybrid is what’s making the engines heavy. It’s not. In F1 the ICE is over 100kg without the energy store (=fuel) whereas is hybrid unit is 20kg including energy (=battery).

    In F1 the hybrid electric system is ment to augment the ICE, could not be soley deployed for a whole lap, or have the power to reach top speeds on a long strait. Comparing the two is intellectually dishonest.

    The formula E cars have less range, lower top speed, and weigh almost 300kg more. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s where battery technology currently is.

    • woelkchen@lemmy.world
      3·
      5 days ago

      In F1 the hybrid electric system is ment to augment the ICE

      Yes, you just explained what a hybrid system is. We already understood this.

      The formula E cars have less range, lower top speed, and weigh almost 300kg more.

      That’s not true.

      Formula E Gen3 Evo: Minimum weight (incl. driver and battery): 856kg (Source)

      Formula 1 2025: Minimum weight WITHOUT driver and fuel: 800kg (Source)

      It’s not a conspiracy

      The lie is that the hybrid system in its current form is what makes F1 cars heavy. That’s factually not the case. It’s 20kg out of 800kg.

      The most weight in FE comes from spec parts which are not at the forefront of current technology. Cost is also a major factor.

      Also, whether your 100% wrong claims about how much FE and F1 cars weigh are “conspiracy” is depending on if you are merely misinformed or lying on purpose. I make no judgement which of the two is the case.

      • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
        1·
        5 days ago

        Formula 1 2025: Minimum weight WITHOUT driver and fuel: 800kg (Source)

        1st 800kg is with the driver source

        2nd I’m not using the minimum weigh of an F1 car with the heavy pig hybrid system, that weight is 605kg. Source

        The lie is that the hybrid system in its current form is what makes F1 cars heavy. That’s factually not the case. It’s 20kg out of 800kg.

        Was this where you got that claim. ES weight is 20-25kg, 7 kg min for the mgu-k and ERS min of 30.6, that doesn’t include extra weight in transmission for hybrid system, wiring, ES safety system, or extra weight for battery and mgu-k mounting.

        • woelkchen@lemmy.world
          1·
          4 days ago

          1st 800kg is with the driver

          OK, cool. Still not 300kg more than a FE car like you claimed. Seems your source is a donkey.

          Was this where you got that claim.

          My source is Mario Illien. If Mario misspoke, send a letter of complaint to:

          Ilmor Engineering Ltd.

Quarry Road
Brixworth
Northamptonshire
NN6 9UB
UK

          Anyhow: FE has no problem producing exciting races with actual overtakes in Monaco. So its means of propulsion is not the problem. If anything, in the same interview he criticized the F1 PU formula as too complicated and heavy and the type of hybrid system to be out of touch with road cars. His approach for a change this is fully electric propulsion with a very simple and much much lighter ICE as generator and relatively few battery cells. This is somewhat similar to the approach of Audi RS Q e-tron.

          If you disagree with that approach, feel free to send another letter of complaint to the aforementioned address.

          • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
            1·
            4 days ago

            OK, cool. Still not 300kg more than a FE car like you claimed. Seems your source is a donkey.

            I see you’re bad at math 856 - 605 = 251 which is nearly 300kg.

            My source is Mario Illien. If Mario misspoke, send a letter of complaint to:

            Got caught in a lie, claim someone else told you that but don’t give a source.

            Anyhow: FE has no problem producing exciting races with actual overtakes in Monaco.

            If overtakes are your metric for a good car than NASCAR cars are for you, they have hundreds of overtakes at Daytona.

            His approach for a change this is fully electric propulsion with a very simple and much much lighter ICE as generator and relatively few battery cells. This is somewhat similar to the approach of Audi RS Q e-tron.

            I personally prefer fast light cars but if the nissian leaf racing league is your jam more power to you.

            • woelkchen@lemmy.world
              1·
              4 days ago

              I see you’re bad at math 856 - 605 = 251 which is nearly 300kg.

              F1 cars weigh 800kg without fuel. Fully fueled, they’re heavier than FE cars.

              If overtakes are your metric for a good car

              Yes

              I personally prefer fast light cars

              Then follow one. F1 clearly isn’t for you then. Good bye.

              • jimbolauski@lemm.ee
                1·
                3 days ago

                F1 cars weigh 800kg without fuel. Fully fueled, they’re heavier than FE cars.

                Current f1 cars with heavy hybrid systems are. F1 cars without those weight 605 kg.

                You will like NASCAR they use heavy cars and pass each other back and forth all the time.

                Then follow one. F1 clearly isn’t for you then. Good bye.

                F1 is getting lighter, once they get rid of the fat pig hybrid system they be much lighter.