The FIA’s senior figure on F1 cars has expressed a worry Audi could quit if V10 engines are re-introduced to grand prix racing.
Look at which teams talk this up as a big positive and you will get a good idea whose new PU for 26 is behind the competition.
will get a good idea whose new PU for 26 is behind the competition.
Nobody has an idea who is behind who. At most, who is behind their own milestones.
Yeah that not right. It’s possible for the teams to work out ideal efficiency for the max fuel flow limit and battery discharge limits and go from there. These are hard constants for what is possible. Sure, someone might break the laws of physics, but it’s unlikely.
How about deregulating engine type and instead capping engine power at a certain kw level?
So this whole V10 talk to try and scare off the American Cadillac has backfired.
Was that even a thing? I mean it makes no sense. Why would Cadillac care when they have a deal to keep using Ferrari engines until they can get their own engine ready (which last I checked they’re aiming for 2028)? The V10 switch has no impact on Cadillac.
This talk of V10’s started before the Ferrari deal. It started after the goal posts moved after Andretti Cadillac came together, and Cadillac needed to be a full engine supplier, before Andretti were accepted as the eleventh team.
It was there to try and scare off Cadillac, who already would of had to spend a lot of time and money for a V6. For it only to be used for a couple years before the V10 switch.
Fuck off audi. Give me the sweet V10 music.
V10s were cool machines at the time. Then we figured out not everyone needs an 7.5L V8 as an everyday driver. That tech is a dead end. Move on.
Arguably Internal Combustion Engines (ICE) are a dead end too, as we move to electric vehicles. I can’t see F1 going fully electric anytime soon so I see the attraction of moving back to simple, light engines that create a lot of noise that fans enjoy.
I see the attraction of moving back to simple, light engines
Of the big lies the competitors to electric propulsion successfully spread is that hybrid is what’s making the engines heavy. It’s not. In F1 the ICE is over 100kg without the energy store (=fuel) whereas is hybrid unit is 20kg including energy (=battery).
a lot of noise that fans enjoy
If fans actually enjoyed the noise so much, why are so few people caring about LMP2? I think that’s a loud minority. Actual motorsport fans care about the on-track competition more than the propulsion technology.
Of the overall F1 fan base, only a small minority ever attended an F1 race. The engine noise most encounter is the result of the broadcast audio mix.
If fans actually enjoyed the noise so much, why are so few people caring about LMP2?
Endurance racing will always be a more challenging proposition for mainstream appeal than short 2-3 hour sprints. Being able to sit down for a couple of hours and get a winner is just much more attractive to most people. WRC suffers from the same issue even though it offers some superb driving.
I do however completely agree with you that the people who are hung up on engine noise are a very small but very vocal minority, and for the vast majority of fans the quality of the sound pales in comparison to the on track action. I like those old V10 noises as much as any other fan, but all I really care about at this point is getting back to smaller, nimbler cars. I don’t really give a shit what they sound like.
Of the big lies the competitors to electric propulsion successfully spread is that hybrid is what’s making the engines heavy. It’s not. In F1 the ICE is over 100kg without the energy store (=fuel) whereas is hybrid unit is 20kg including energy (=battery).
In F1 the hybrid electric system is ment to augment the ICE, could not be soley deployed for a whole lap, or have the power to reach top speeds on a long strait. Comparing the two is intellectually dishonest.
The formula E cars have less range, lower top speed, and weigh almost 300kg more. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s where battery technology currently is.
In F1 the hybrid electric system is ment to augment the ICE
Yes, you just explained what a hybrid system is. We already understood this.
The formula E cars have less range, lower top speed, and weigh almost 300kg more.
That’s not true.
Formula E Gen3 Evo: Minimum weight (incl. driver and battery): 856kg (Source)
Formula 1 2025: Minimum weight WITHOUT driver and fuel: 800kg (Source)
It’s not a conspiracy
The lie is that the hybrid system in its current form is what makes F1 cars heavy. That’s factually not the case. It’s 20kg out of 800kg.
The most weight in FE comes from spec parts which are not at the forefront of current technology. Cost is also a major factor.
Also, whether your 100% wrong claims about how much FE and F1 cars weigh are “conspiracy” is depending on if you are merely misinformed or lying on purpose. I make no judgement which of the two is the case.
Formula 1 2025: Minimum weight WITHOUT driver and fuel: 800kg (Source)
1st 800kg is with the driver source
2nd I’m not using the minimum weigh of an F1 car with the heavy pig hybrid system, that weight is 605kg. Source
The lie is that the hybrid system in its current form is what makes F1 cars heavy. That’s factually not the case. It’s 20kg out of 800kg.
Was this where you got that claim. ES weight is 20-25kg, 7 kg min for the mgu-k and ERS min of 30.6, that doesn’t include extra weight in transmission for hybrid system, wiring, ES safety system, or extra weight for battery and mgu-k mounting.
1st 800kg is with the driver
OK, cool. Still not 300kg more than a FE car like you claimed. Seems your source is a donkey.
Was this where you got that claim.
My source is Mario Illien. If Mario misspoke, send a letter of complaint to:
Ilmor Engineering Ltd. Quarry Road Brixworth Northamptonshire NN6 9UB UKAnyhow: FE has no problem producing exciting races with actual overtakes in Monaco. So its means of propulsion is not the problem. If anything, in the same interview he criticized the F1 PU formula as too complicated and heavy and the type of hybrid system to be out of touch with road cars. His approach for a change this is fully electric propulsion with a very simple and much much lighter ICE as generator and relatively few battery cells. This is somewhat similar to the approach of Audi RS Q e-tron.
If you disagree with that approach, feel free to send another letter of complaint to the aforementioned address.
OK, cool. Still not 300kg more than a FE car like you claimed. Seems your source is a donkey.
I see you’re bad at math 856 - 605 = 251 which is nearly 300kg.
My source is Mario Illien. If Mario misspoke, send a letter of complaint to:
Got caught in a lie, claim someone else told you that but don’t give a source.
Anyhow: FE has no problem producing exciting races with actual overtakes in Monaco.
If overtakes are your metric for a good car than NASCAR cars are for you, they have hundreds of overtakes at Daytona.
His approach for a change this is fully electric propulsion with a very simple and much much lighter ICE as generator and relatively few battery cells. This is somewhat similar to the approach of Audi RS Q e-tron.
I personally prefer fast light cars but if the nissian leaf racing league is your jam more power to you.
Formula E is great, and their lap times are getting to the point they directly compete with F1 hardware, and F1 has a monopoly on the best drivers to boot.
Couple more years, and I think the constructors will be demanding all electric.
I absolutely hate the gimmicks Formula E introduced. Fan Boost, forced attack mode, pit boost, etc.
They make the series a chore to follow.
Fan Boost
Long gone.
forced attack mode
Gen3 Attack Mode was stupid because it was a penalty, not an advantage. Gen3 Evo rules with all wheel drive under attack mode actually have the intended consequence to produce more attacks.
pit boost, etc.
Pit boost was fine. No more difficult to follow than WEC with its refueling. Pit boost’s major downside IMO is that mechanics must not repair the car while it’s charging, so cars with broken front wings or flat tire have little chance to catch up after the wing change with a lap down. Personally, I’d be in favor of battery swaps with solid state batteries in the side pods and mechanics would use pressure guns to bolt them off and on again, kinda similar to Nio EP9.
Agreed. The gimmicks are garbage.
Formula E times appear close because the tracks are different, take Monaco which is the same: F1 1:10.2, FE 1:29.7, F3 1:24.9
