I’m vegetarian. Western food is so focused on meat that people often have no idea how to make a meal that doesn’t contain it. My mother once asked me how to make a vegetarian version of Chicken Parmesan. So keep the tomato sauce, cheese, and spices, but swap out the chicken with pasta. Congrats you’ve made vegetarian Chicken Parmesan. I like to call it Spaghetti.
I think that speaks to OP’s point: instead of thinking in terms of trying to replicate the meat dish without meat, think in terms of making a vegetable dish that satisfies the same mood.
It’s just funny that someone was looking for a meatless chicken parm because the original recipe was eggplant parm, just someone thought it would be better with meat.
And there’s a lot of alternatives for many different prices. I remember how people used to berate me for being vegetarian while growing up, telling me I’d die and whatnot.
Those 90% “vegetarian versions” are insulting to vegans because they are not balanced meals. Ya’ll still need protein. A plain salad with no high-protein veg is not a meal. The same salad with croutons made with butter is just insulting ignorance.
I recognize your name and we haven’t seen eye-to-eye in the past, but I’m gonna side with the vegans on this one here. Restaurants need to get their heads out of their asses about what a vegan meal is.
Flip-side. If you have a high-protein vegan meal and you just plop a steak on top of it, that’s also not a well-balanced meal. The term often used is “heavy” (if not just “unbalanced”).
No I just meant it as a matter of perspective. Take kale with sausage for example. From a meat eaters perspective the vegan version would be kale without the sausage. But from a vegans perspective it’s kale with added sausage. So instead of saying these are all (meat) dishes and the modification is to leave out the meat, you could also say it’s all vegetarian dishes were you added meat.
No I just meant it as a matter of perspective. Take kale with sausage for example. From a meat eaters perspective the vegan version would be kale without the sausage. But from a vegans perspective it’s kale with added sausage
But kale without sausage has never been a staple food for meals. The early Europeans used kale as a supplement to meat and fish. The Portuguese have mixed it with Chourico or Linguica for ~600 years. From an honest vegan’s perspective, a head of kale is not a meal, and never really has been.
Further, you don’t just drop kale on top of a sausage on a plate or vice versa. If you saw that, then yes it’s just “kale with added sausage”. When we’re talking meals, there’s cooking profiles, spicing, etc. Kale does really well when cooked with meat fats. That’s a specific process.
Saying Portuguse Kale Soup is “Add courico to kale” is like saying an automobile is “add wheels and an engine to a car”.
So instead of saying these are all (meat) dishes and the modification is to leave out the meat, you could also say it’s all vegetarian dishes were you added meat.
Unless it’s literally that (hey look, I have a piece of celery and dropped a chicken on it), then it isn’t that. The reasons are both nutritional, and historical.
I mean, you can still say what you want. I can call myself a vegan while I eat steak. But that’s sorta diluting words to fit an agenda.
and people get so pissy about like ‘where is muh serving of protein??’ like just because you saw an infograph as a child doesn’t mean you have to have a hunk of a living creature every meal
You know what has protein? Every whole plant food. You don’t need a dedicated part of a meal that is high in protein when the whole meal contains protein.
Different plants have different macros. Ofc there are plants with high protein but don’t go around spouting carrots and fruit are a balanced diet. You need beans, legumes, nuts, etc.
There’s nothing childish about paying attention to macros. If you’ve ever spent time doing any programmed exercising that includes making linear progress, you know the difference protein can make. And it’s hard to achieve even when you’re not extremely limited in ingredients.
I’m not knocking vegan or vegetarian diets. Just saying it’s not at all easy, and that protein matters a lot.
Also most vegetarian Indian food is absolutely loaded with butter/ghee. It’s not “healthy.”
I think the poverty and lack of access to healthcare in some areas might be a bigger drag on life expectancy than cooking with butter, especially when a fair number of Italian dishes also include butter.
I’m vegetarian. Western food is so focused on meat that people often have no idea how to make a meal that doesn’t contain it. My mother once asked me how to make a vegetarian version of Chicken Parmesan. So keep the tomato sauce, cheese, and spices, but swap out the chicken with pasta. Congrats you’ve made vegetarian Chicken Parmesan. I like to call it Spaghetti.
I’d swap the chicken for eggplant personally.
I think that speaks to OP’s point: instead of thinking in terms of trying to replicate the meat dish without meat, think in terms of making a vegetable dish that satisfies the same mood.
It’s just funny that someone was looking for a meatless chicken parm because the original recipe was eggplant parm, just someone thought it would be better with meat.
What was first, the eggplant or the chickenplant?.. 😛
90% of “vegetarian versions” of dishes are just the dish without meat. 9% of the remainder are the dish with black beans and/or mushrooms
I mean personally I’d sub it in for something with some protein, though you definitely don’t need nearly the amount you get from a piece of meat.
And there’s a lot of alternatives for many different prices. I remember how people used to berate me for being vegetarian while growing up, telling me I’d die and whatnot.
Still here, after nearly thirty years.
You need it.
Maybe you do.
That’s because most meat dishes are just vegetarian and vegan dishes with meat added to them.
Those 90% “vegetarian versions” are insulting to vegans because they are not balanced meals. Ya’ll still need protein. A plain salad with no high-protein veg is not a meal. The same salad with croutons made with butter is just insulting ignorance.
I recognize your name and we haven’t seen eye-to-eye in the past, but I’m gonna side with the vegans on this one here. Restaurants need to get their heads out of their asses about what a vegan meal is.
Flip-side. If you have a high-protein vegan meal and you just plop a steak on top of it, that’s also not a well-balanced meal. The term often used is “heavy” (if not just “unbalanced”).
It was an attempt of a joke. You know because the person wrote
So I wrote that meat dishes are just vegan and vegetarian dishes with meat…
Sorry. I was told by someone else I’m very literal today. I think I miss out on the joke. Are you referring to things like Lobster Mac and Cheese?
No I just meant it as a matter of perspective. Take kale with sausage for example. From a meat eaters perspective the vegan version would be kale without the sausage. But from a vegans perspective it’s kale with added sausage. So instead of saying these are all (meat) dishes and the modification is to leave out the meat, you could also say it’s all vegetarian dishes were you added meat.
But kale without sausage has never been a staple food for meals. The early Europeans used kale as a supplement to meat and fish. The Portuguese have mixed it with Chourico or Linguica for ~600 years. From an honest vegan’s perspective, a head of kale is not a meal, and never really has been.
Further, you don’t just drop kale on top of a sausage on a plate or vice versa. If you saw that, then yes it’s just “kale with added sausage”. When we’re talking meals, there’s cooking profiles, spicing, etc. Kale does really well when cooked with meat fats. That’s a specific process.
Saying Portuguse Kale Soup is “Add courico to kale” is like saying an automobile is “add wheels and an engine to a car”.
Unless it’s literally that (hey look, I have a piece of celery and dropped a chicken on it), then it isn’t that. The reasons are both nutritional, and historical.
I mean, you can still say what you want. I can call myself a vegan while I eat steak. But that’s sorta diluting words to fit an agenda.
and people get so pissy about like ‘where is muh serving of protein??’ like just because you saw an infograph as a child doesn’t mean you have to have a hunk of a living creature every meal
You should still be eating protein…
You know what has protein? Every whole plant food. You don’t need a dedicated part of a meal that is high in protein when the whole meal contains protein.
That’s delusional.
Different plants have different macros. Ofc there are plants with high protein but don’t go around spouting carrots and fruit are a balanced diet. You need beans, legumes, nuts, etc.
Can I still have 11 bread?
There’s nothing childish about paying attention to macros. If you’ve ever spent time doing any programmed exercising that includes making linear progress, you know the difference protein can make. And it’s hard to achieve even when you’re not extremely limited in ingredients.
I’m not knocking vegan or vegetarian diets. Just saying it’s not at all easy, and that protein matters a lot.
Also most vegetarian Indian food is absolutely loaded with butter/ghee. It’s not “healthy.”
Italy and Japan life expectancy: 84 years.
India: 70 years.
Drastic differences.
I think the poverty and lack of access to healthcare in some areas might be a bigger drag on life expectancy than cooking with butter, especially when a fair number of Italian dishes also include butter.
Turkey (lots and lots of meat): 78 years.
Life expectancy is not a good scale.
Especially when said infographic was not only wrong, but also propaganda.