Isn’t this the video where they used things like a calendar with regular dates and claimed it was a list of Hamas members?
The entire area they showed looked like the power area of the hospital’s basement, with various things on the walls and such that indicate hospital and nothing else.
Their only “evidence” in the videos was the pile of guns they showed, which…isn’t really evidence of anything, especially since we have no way to tell if those were planted or not.
Reminds me of Russia’s failed attempt to demonstrate that Nazis were in Ukraine by releasing photos of a ‘bust’ that was obviously staged and includes gems like multiple copies of The Sims video game which were supposed to be sim cards.
Another video distributed by Russian state news agency RIA showed an inscription in an unidentified book supposedly recovered in the arrest — signed in Russian with the words “signature illegible.”
This whole article is just bonkers.
It’s so surreal it kind of makes me wonder if it’s really a false flag, because they can’t be that incompetent… Right?
It’s not about being good. It’s about generating headlines.
Something about generating doubt, uncertainty and cynicism.
Or they’re just that incompetent. I could see that too
I mean, there are definitely Nazis fighting for Ukraine. As there were Nazis fighting for Wagner, it’s not exactly a secret and they have the symbols right on their uniforms.
What?
Ukraine’s problem with far-right nationalist militias was openly talked about in western media before the Russian invasion
https://archive.li/iNMNq (haaretz)
Putin’s claim that he’s invading to “de-nazify” Ukraine is obviously nonsense since Wagner was literally named for Hitler’s favorite composer but to pretend they don’t have a neo-nazi problem is just ignoring reality.
What the other replies said. The Azov battalion is a notorious example.
As for Wagner, you can read about this lovely co-founder on Wikipedia.
Both sides are happy to have Nazis fighting for them, but the war itself doesn’t have anything to do with ideology, it’s a proxy war between Russia and NATO and purely about geopolitics.
copied from the Wikipedia page on the Azov-Battalion
“The unit has drawn controversy over its early and allegedly continuing association with far-right groups and neo-Nazi ideology,[13] its use of controversial symbols linked to Nazism, and early allegations that members of the unit participated in human rights violations.[14][15][16] Some experts have been critical of the regiment’s role within the larger Azov Movement, a political umbrella group made up of veterans and organizations linked to Azov, and its possible far-right political ambitions, despite claims of the regiment’s depoliticization.[17][8] Others argue that the regiment has evolved, tempering its neo-Nazi and far-right underpinnings as it became part of the National Guard.[18][19][9] The Azov Regiment has been a recurring theme of Russian propaganda.[20] The unit has been designated a terrorist group by Russia since August 2022.[21]”
Lol, yeah. I just had to explain how that kind of manipulation works.
Propaganda is a powerful force when it’s used to reinforce an existing bias. Facts are irrelevant because you saw what you wanted to see.
Governments play the propaganda war hard. I am not picking sides over it: It is what it is.
Edit: Confirmation bias. That is the phrase I was referring to.
Yes lol. Apparently a terrorist militia command center is less well armed than a random house in Arizona. If you watch this video and are convinced by it, I have a bridge to sell you.
Especially with this coming on the heels of that almost pristine copy of Mein Kampf they were pushing as belonging to a Hamas member in a children’s room the IDF partially blew up.
There’s also that video of a “nurse” in perfectly clean scurbs with an Israeli accent that none of the real staff had ever seen before crying that Hamas had taken over the hospital.
Wow this whole thread is Hamas supporters! /s
It’s hilariously bad, but you know brown people bad, Israel good apparently.
No, they didn’t.
They claimed it looks like a shift calendar where each terrorist signed in for his shift in guarding the hostages.
They showed much more than that, including equipment, clothes and a motorcycle that are suspected to have been used in the 7/10 atrocities.
They do say that they are still investigating and going over the evidence, but show and make it clear that they did find weapons and a command post inside the hospital.
Regarding the planted comment - well, if that’s what you believe then it doesn’t really matter what they show, doesn’t it? You’ve already made up your mind and it doesn’t matter what the evidence show…
Sorry, but showing pictures of guns, clothes and a motorcycle is not evidence. I don’t care what the news is about or where it’s from. True or not, this kind of thing needs independent reporting and third-party verification. Period.
When you see stories like this from any source, question everything. Showing pictures that confirm an existing bias is a powerful tool of manipulation, so please remember that.
Early in the Ukraine war, Russia was pushing the Nazi misinformation extremely hard. By the time fake news stories were debunked, it was too late. Russians were fully convinced that Ukraine was about to invade and old news getting debunked didn’t matter.
This story is an example: https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-agents-the-sims-video-game-sting-operation-2022-4
Lets just say there are quite a few layers to the story I linked, so take it with a grain of salt. _It is just an example.
Of course, 100%.
Copying what I replied to another comment - I’d rather wait for an official report from the UN or an investigative story from an unbiased news outlet like Reuters (to decide whether this is authentic or propaganda).
You posted this to a World News community, but would have rather waited for it to be verified? Why post it in the first place if you’re unsure of the credibility?
Then why did they lie about a calendar? What was the purpose of that exactly?
I’m unfamiliar with that, can you share more info? What was the lie and how it was disproven?
At 5:35 in the video in OP’s link. People who can read Arabic called them out for what was literally a calendar with days listed. The IDF officer in the video claims it’s a list of signed names from each Hamas member for their shift of guarding the room. But there’s no names on it, it’s just a calendar.
it’s just a calendar
I’m very skeptical of this claim right here.
I didn’t notice anything specific in the calendar itself, but when I used Google translate, the top of the calendar read:
“For the Battle of Toukan Al-Akher 10/23/7”
I’m assuming the date is October 7, 2023 and it’s the result of Google mistranslating from Arabic, but that doesn’t sound like a typical calendar.
I feel like people are trying to pretend the hostages were held nowhere.
EDIT: I zoomed in and translated again. I think Toukan was Toufan and this meant “Battle of Al-Aqsa Flood”, obviously in reference to the Al Aqsa mosque and using the terminology that Palestinians use to describe October 7th.
The top line says “Battle of Al-Aqsa flood 10/7/23” but if you translate the rest of what’s on that page its just the day of the week and date in each square. The IDF propagandist explicitly claims in the video that it is a guard shift list with people’s names on it which is a blatant lie.
Yes, I agree. I noticed the days and saw no names. He seems to be wrong about what it says, but people in this thread seem to be wrong about it just being some random calendar.
I don’t like to replace wrong information with wrong information.
You’re right, good catch.
It’s a very strange mistake to make on their part, I assume the IDF has many Arabic speakers.
It’ll be very interesting to see how everything else in the video will unfold.
It’s a very strange mistake to make on their part
No its not, its purposeful disinformation from a group trying to justify war crimes.
Occam’s razor applies here, and so we look for the simplest, most likely explanation (going by past example). And that explanation is Israeli misinformation. They’ve done it before.
Are you serious? The simplest explanation is misinformation and not an honest mistake or slip of the tongue? The person presenting the information doesn’t speak fluent English and most likely doesn’t speak fluent Arabic either.
If they couldn’t read it but claimed to know what it says then it’s a lie, not just a mistake.
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Disproved in the context of the claims.
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I don’t think you’ve even watched the video you linked
The infowar continues, and Bidens choices have brought in neo-progressives to help the Israelis.
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Ummm…
You mean the hostage room full of hostages Israel wants back?
Ya. My money is on full planted disinformation aimed at justifying slaughter of innocents.
Hamas using hospitals as human shields is horrific. Israel ignoring the human shields is horrific.
IDF are just clarifying they are awful, as much as Hamas are.
Unfortunately no winners here, as is with most wars.
Arms dealers and manufacturers are winning big.
Framing this as a war is disingenuous. It’s one of the most powerful militaries in the world trying to put down an insurgency via collective and indiscriminate punishment.
Israel is already robbing more Palestinian lands, justifying it with this war. Looks like they might be winners here.
Too bad they killed or sent away any journalist or independent organization able to verify their bullshit. So I guess we’re supposed to take their word even of they lied more times than I can count?
Hamas is evil. IDF is evil. Show me a fucking cease fire.
The evil side doesn’t want a cease fire. And no other countrie’s armies are willing to die to try to make one.
It’s a basement of a hospital that hundreds of civilians used as bomb shelter. Weak effort of propaganda from IDF because they know US will support the claim anyway.
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… According to Hamas which has demonstrated with evidence that they lie in almost every instance to get ahead of the narrative. So far there has been no evidence that any Israeli organizational narrative has been false.
So UNICEF has already stated that the Gaza ministry of health numbers are accurate and can be taken as is. I can link the article.
So far there has been no evidence that any Israeli organizational narrative has been false.
The video they’re using for evidence literally claims that a random calendar is a Hamas guard shift list.
Yes, war in an urban environment is bad. This is why it took a literal terrorist attack to prompt Israel to do it. There’s nothing that could be done to simultaneously win the war and prevent civilian casualties of this magnitude. I am a literal military strategist and there is no way possible considering the tunnel systems.
Ah yes, “it wasn’t them. And if it was, it was unavoidable. And if it was avoidable, they deserved it”
“Hamas bombed their own hospital” - Israel Bombed it, according to independently-verified Channel 4 sources. Followed by openly bombing of multiple other hospitals. “Leaked Audio” of hamas taking blame was doctored and spliced from multiple sources.
“Hamas beheaded 40babies” - Backtracked to one baby, who wasn’t decapitated at all, but in an area where Israeli helicopter gunners admit to blindly firing into civilian neighbourhoods for hours.
“Hamas killed 1400 civilians” - Backtracked to 1200 recently, including a vast majority being military personnel. Many of the civilians were likely killed by Israeli crossfire or intentionally via “Hannibal doctrine”.
“Hamas uses tunnels under Al-Shifa” - Literally only a shitty blender video as “proof”. Other attempts such as the above use what Israelis claim is a “guard shift pattern” on a wall, which is actually just translated into a calendar with no names on it all.
Not going to bother with people like you who wake up giddy with excitement to write off the lives of millions of people because they think there’s some kind of elaborate military apperatus being deployed in hospitals when the reality is that almost every IDF accusation is a confession of the kind of behaviour their own brutes have been orchestrating for decades.
At this point, you’re willingly choosing Israel’s narrative out of malice, not stupidity.
whoa those are a lot of claims X3
ehehe~ i’m really curious bout this lil’ one tho, just this one:
“Hamas killed 1400 civilians” - Backtracked to 1200 recently, including a vast majority being military personnel. Many of the civilians were likely killed by Israeli crossfire or intentionally via “Hannibal doctrine”
i watched all available videos during october 7th and didn’t see no helicopter or idf shooting civvies :o
I’m glad you’ve confirmed your biases based on a few minutes of Israeli-published footage of battles that were hours in length.
PS: get that UwU speak the fuck out of here, prick, you’re trying to justify the deaths of thousands of kids while larping as a fucking vtuber. Eat shit.
ehehe, silly~ hamas uploaded the footage online themselves, haha!
so binary~ pointing out an inconsistency isn’t automatically making out with israel. but it don’t change the fact no helicopter was shooting civilians or the idf was shooting their own civlians X3
Wow this morning it was a hostage holding room now it’s a command center, remarkable
Until a reliable, independent news agency verifies it, any claim from either side should be viewed as misleading. It’s also worth noting that it’s not just Hamas denying this, it’s also the facility itself. Here’s part of a report from one of the BBC correspondents in Gaza:
"Israel has accused Hamas of having a command and control centre underneath Shifa - which the group denies.
I have been to the hospital hundreds of time - I was born there, my son was born there, in the last two months of my mum’s life, she was inside the kidney dialysis centre and I used to visit her every day.
It is very hard to verify what is underneath. With my eyes, I haven’t seen any military capability inside the hospital buildings."
Lastly, consider the fact that this hospital is in one of the places the IDF instructed Palestinians to flee to . Are we now saying that the IDF were purposefully trying to place Palestinians in danger by telling them to go to a location where they knew Hamas operated from?EDIT: I was referring to the wrong hospital - see my comment below for details.
did idf really say that? :o
The BBC quote Dr Ebrahem Matar, a heart specialist in the intensive care unit at the Aqsa Martyrs’ hospital - the only medical centre in the middle area of the Gaza Strip.
"Dr Matar said there was only one operating room and limited number of staff.
"'It is catastrophic and it is difficult. We see patients deteriorate due to the continuous pain and the continuous resistant infections.
“The hospital is in one of the areas the Israeli army has told Palestinians to flee to.'”
EDIT: It looks like this is a different hospital Dr Matar was talking about. I’ll update my other comment too.
but did idf really say that? X3
Tell Palestinians to flee to certain areas? Yeah. NPR reported it, BBC reported it, CBS reported it, Al-Jazeera reported it, CNN reported it.
were that hospital oe of those areas tho? :oc
Yeah, just look at the areas the IDF told people to flee to and you’ll see Marat’s hospital is there.
Don’t waste your time … I just called him out and he created another account posing as an anime fan kid.
He will spot any news criticizing Israel then ask for sources / links / evidence and leave when links provided. Rinse and repeat.
can you link that? X3
With the usual caveat “The IDF says:”. Same care is needed to anything “The Hamas says:”. Both sides have their agenda, and it is not necessary involving facts and truths.
totally agree on that but even our german state news station is reporting that there were foreign journalists with the soldiers on the spot to witness the storage of weapons and other military equipment, so it seems this has at least other sources besides the IDF
and to give perspective on our state news, they usually label any news shared by only one source or side as not independently verified and are financed by law by the german citizens and not some big company with an agenda. So they are by all means not perfect but usually a pretty safe source.
While adding ARD or ZDF journalists adds credibility way over Fox “News”, the rooms shown could easily have been staged for the show.
While adding ARD or ZDF journalists adds credibility way over Fox “News”, the rooms shown could easily have been staged for the show.
Yes it could but this is also highly speculative and from footage we have seen it is not unusually to see hamas forces around those buildings.
What I’m saying is that whatever information comes from that part of the world is usually completely unverified and unverifyable. It’s either “The IDF said” or “Hamas said”. Neither is trustworthy, even if they “show evidence”. Regardless if the IDF shows a room with some weapons and random items they could have picked up from the street, or someone else holding up a dead baby and telling it was shot by the Israelis.
Nobody down there is there to tell the truth. Everybody is there to convey a set message.
Agreed but if the news pops up from different sources, maybe there is more behind it.
They have footage
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It was actually funny looking through it lol. Does my guy just use social media to solely talk about Israel and Palestine XD
May have an alt acc dedicated to the topic. Not everybody wants their opinion on a subject that might cause them to be targeted with irl violence public.
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you’re a bit nutty if you think we’re all the same person :v
Fortieth time’s the charm.
„Watch IDF Spokesperson RAdm. Daniel Hagari walk through one of Hamas’ subterranean terrorist tunnels—only to exit in Gaza’s Rantisi hospital on the other side. “
The footage does not show what the tweet suggests. Hagari does not enter the Hospital through a Hamas tunnel. At least not in the version they have uploaded.
I started to see a lot of Israel propaganda lately.
Every post on my feed from this world news community is just “IDF: Hamas using baby organs to make bombs”.
Probably going to block it
And all posts are posted by like 3 accounts.
there a lotta propganda everywhere!!
Yeah, like 2 hours old accounts spreading propaganda in all Israel related news lol.
can you get back to me in a day?
Lemmy’s Hamas groupies out in full force today. Can’t wait for every hamas member to die underground, screaming about their imaginary space man
Ikr, Lemmy is full of pro hamas
We don’t care what the IDF says.
You probably should.
Whether you agree or not, it’s always a good idea to hear both sides, otherwise there’s a good chance you’ll end up in an echo chamber.
If their story is fabricated it’ll fall apart very quickly.
If their story is fabricated it’ll fall apart very quickly.
It did. Look at the current top comment.
It falls apart while watching the video if you’re not an idiot.
I’d rather wait for an official report from the UN or an investigative story from an unbiased news outlet like Reuters.
It will probably be more reliable than the top comment.
I mean yeah true enough but I meant their evidence is beyond weak already.
No you should not. During wars in particular you need third party verification, you can’t be so naive to believe anything from the parties involved.
The person you’re replying to said nothing about believing it, that’s an inference you’ve made. Cos they have made a good point, listening to one side only does cause an echo chamber effect. And I encourage everyone to read as much as they can from all aspects in matters like this, but draw your own conclusions. War isn’t simple, it’s complex, dirty, and downright deplorable. It’s why so much study into past wars is undertaken, even those in recent memory that were well documented compared to ones that happened long ago. A lot can be learnt, be it statistically, economically, culturally etc.
As an addendum, if you only hear two sides to a story, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle and usually nothing like what people actually had to experience.
Honestly, what I see is much worse. Hamas stated they were going to use human shields and Israel hasn’t given a fuck. War doesn’t get any more sobering than that, to be honest.
I listen to a metric fuck ton of propaganda and it takes a ton of work to sort through it all. (I am using the term “propaganda” in the context of strong bias, not necessarily misinformation.) One thing I can say, is that the second you get emotional about news from sources like this, you are becoming vulnerable to actual misinformation. Information warfare is real and just as dangerous as bullets, in some ways.
Like I implied before, the actual truth to a story about war is probably much worse than people may think.
if you only hear two sides to a story, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle
That’s a fallacy, sometimes one or the other side is straight up wrong or lying and the other isn’t. Probably not this time, but regardless it’s important to keep in mind.
There is an underground city in Gaza. Terrorists hide there. It would be strange under the circumstances for there not to be tunnels leading to/from the hospital. The IDF’s claim is most likely true.
The “other side” of the argument is not a rejection of this, it is to point out that these circumstances were manufactured by apartheid, and that they do not justify Israel’s ethnic cleansing campaign
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The US’s claims related to this conflict are only slightly less worthless than Israel’s. Remember the beheaded babies?
The country that has vested interest in the region and unanimously supports anything Israel does,
checks notes
backs Israel’s claims
No shit Sherlock.
Who’s we? Are there more than one voices in your head?
We know, at least some of us, that you won’t give Israel a fair shake.
