holy shit it’s Cthulhu lovecraft in liberal form

Deeply feel this. Marx hated me specifically and wrote just to fuck me over.

Your dreams would probably be possible in a more fair society as long as it isn’t anything unhinged like building a skyscraper out of human corpses

I always dislike the “hedonic treadmill” framing because it implies there’s something wrong with our brain seeking pleasurable things, and I don’t think an ideal society would be structured to meet our bare minimum needs and have no art, entertainment, or luxury

I think the main distinction is that we need a sustainably improved lifestyle to be happier, rather than just big individual hits of pleasure

And I do think I’ve seen examples of people pursuing dreams and being happier for it- Indie game devs are a prime example. It’s just rare because it takes a certain level of privilege to get started with it

I am sort of confused what you consider to be “proper” dreaming. I agree that the way we’re taught now is wrong, but what would be correct? The way you phrase all this makes me thing the “proper” way to dream would be to give up all dreams beyond base subsistence, albeit gradually, which seems contrary of the actual function of a dream or main goal in the first place: something that’s enjoyable and feels important and fulfilling to do. Sure, it’s a goal, but a goal that makes you give up all other goals just feels like a replacement for capitalism.

I am not attempting to le epically own you, btw. I’m just spitballing. I think I agree with you here

Their love of games is a blacklist, not a whitelist. Duh

God this thread is trash

I hate the term friendzoned.

I also hate the idea that people should be expected to stay friends with someone, even if being rejected made their emotions feels complicated.

Nobody’s experiences are universal. Some people can handle rejection fine. Other people take months to get over things.

And nobody’s emotions are more important than anyone else’s.

The important thing is, that consent goes both ways. You can’t just expect someone to be in a friendship with you because they asked you out, just like how they can’t expect you to be in a romantic relationship with them because they asked you out. Romantic attraction does not always come with a side serving of platonic attraction (even though it often does). The flip side of this- forcing someone to be in a romantic relationship because they wanted to be friends with you- is obviously and absurdly toxic. Why is expecting someone to stay friends with you any different? Everyone deserves friends and lovers (if they want them), but nobody should be obligated to provide.

And none of this “change your emotions” shit. You might have been able to adjust your viewpoint with a friend yourself, but that’s your own experience. Not everyone is going to be able to change their emotions and nobody should be expected to. Being told to just… change your feelings like that is insanely invalidating. Sick of this “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” mentality being applied to interpersonal relationships. Don’t.

None of this is to say that it’s impossible or even usually difficult to be friends with someone you’ve asked out, just that there should be room for all emotions, and people are allowed to break up both friendships and relationships for stupid reasons. Yeah, it’s frustrating, and that’s valid, too, but relationships and friendships where one person doesn’t want to be there, even if it’s for a stupid reason, won’t end well

And don’t get me started on some of the weird comments here that smell like incel screeds. Like I don’t think us calling a white guy misogynistic is going to cause fascism.

Being turned down didn’t suck? I mean your viewpoint is valid but most people here probably can’t relate (and shouldn’t feel forced to)

You have a level of emotional stability there most of us could only dream of

I think the problem with this is that someone choosing to not be friends with another person because the feelings are too confusing isn’t an active prioritization of their emotions over the other person. It’s setting a boundary because they know they’re not in a place where crossing it would feel ok to them.

We shouldn’t prioritize romantic feelings over platonic ones, but we also shouldn’t force people who are uncomfortable with being friends with someone because it’s hard to quash their romantic feelings to continue to be friends with that person.

If neither person wants what the other person wants then parting ways might suck but it would suck a lot less than the alternative

I don’t think people should feel forced to pursue friendships (or relationships) that they don’t feel emotionally comfortable with. It sucks a LOT but people should have the right to cut off friendships and relationships for any reason. They have to be a willing participant for it to work, anyways

But to be honest, I’m torn. You’re completely right, but I don’t think that’s incompatible with what I’m saying, either. It just seems like a shit situation, honestly.

I’m tempted to say we just avoid judging anyone who doesn’t turn misogynist in these situations.

And, thinking about it, we SHOULD normalize being friends with exes or people who rejected you. I think there’s room for doing that and giving people space if they feel uncomfortable with pursuing a friendship anyways.

It fucking sucks that so few cishet men are willing to try an actual nonromantic friendship with a cishet woman and I think normalizing the idea of “if no sex, then disappear” just makes that worse.

I didn’t consider this angle until now, but I don’t think forcing people’s emotions to conform to what you want is an effective or stable way to fight misogyny.

No, like, i don’t think they’re talking about the person being asked as being the one being emotionally ambiguous- they’re talking about the person doing the asking. It’s emotionally ambiguous to ask someone out and then have them say they just want to be friends.

It’s possible to be friends from then on but it’s difficult and definitely ambiguous.

I think making a joke about it is a lot less weird than the tendency to say a specific genre is “bad” without any trace of irony. When it’s joked about, it draws attention to how absurd the idea of objectively judging music is- while also giving you the ability to express your distaste for a specific genre at the same time.

Like being “racist” towards white people, it subverts the norm in a way that seems to conform to it at first.

And, to be clear, I have never heard this genre of music and don’t plan to after this thread.

I was tempted to say something like this but I thought it’d take away from my point

Sometimes, music that’s made to be “intentionally bad” ends up having people who like it anyways. Like the one dude on TikTok who tried to make an “objectively bad song” but accidentally made kickass breakcore

I’d bet that people who intentionally make bad music end up making music that sucks according to the people that like the genre they’re making, not music that’s universally bad

I unironically do not believe bad music exists. There are genres we subjectively find annoying or distasteful but there is absolutely no such thing as objectively bad music/low quality music.

I mean, music that is soulless and obviously low-effort in its production exists, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to it being bad.

What happened to all the people on Reddit who seemed to have loved peace? Why is every single Redditor a war hungry monster? Did I hallucinate those people?