Worth noting that the ancient Greeks believed that democracy is impossible without an ethnically homogeneous population. Otherwise, they believed that there would be too many different competing intentions, that politicians would not have any clear direction and it would be very difficult to get anything important resolved. People love making emotional arguments regarding inclusivity, which is hard to reject without sounding boorish, but there are actual practical concerns with the situation.
Yes, but they also thought that women were inferior to men and slavery was an awesome idea, so maybe they aren’t the best people to look back on for opinions.
That’s why you consider the reasons presented by those who invented democracy, rather than simply accepting an idea based entirely on who presented it.
You don’t have to answer me, but ask yourself if our current societies have too many competing ideals, that it’s hard to get anything important done.
The U.S. is the first constitutional republic. They are extremely different. This is like saying NASA engineers should consider why the Wright Brothers never left the atmosphere.
America’s problems have nothing to do with what the Ancient Greeks believed.
I mean, I don’t want to be too rude but look at the European democracies who are typically praised in contrast to the U.S. Their populations have been significantly more ethnically homogenous, and only recently have they begun to deal with significant immigrant populations of differently colored peoples. How have they done? Immediate rise of far-right groups and tons of anti-immigrant propoganda.
I’m not claiming the Greeks were right, I think they had a small-minded view of what diversity could bring them, but it is an interesting observation.
On the other hand look at the US, which has been extremely successful as an ethnically diverse republic and in fact wouldn’t be nearly as successful without that diversity. America has problems, but none of them are because there are a lot of different people there.
I mean, the massive number of racists who are currently trying to elect a fascist would disagree, and I think many minority groups would disagree that there haven’t been problems in the very recent past.
Certainly, the fault lies in the racists, but we can’t pretend that is not a problem directly caused by having an ethnically diverse country. It’s one that we’ll need to find a solution for, because otherwise we’ll always have a group who is willing to burn democracy to the ground because they hate people who have a different skin color.
I think many minority groups would disagree that there haven’t been problems in the very recent past.
I mean there are problems for minorities, but not for America as a whole I mean.
because otherwise we’ll always have a group who is willing to burn democracy to the ground because they hate people who have a different skin color.
I think it’s debatable they only do it because they hate people with a different skin color. They also hate women and poor people, among other things, so while the rhetoric would be different I don’t think being a 100% white country would do much to curb the American far right.
Worth noting that the ancient Greeks believed that democracy is impossible without an ethnically homogeneous population. Otherwise, they believed that there would be too many different competing intentions, that politicians would not have any clear direction and it would be very difficult to get anything important resolved. People love making emotional arguments regarding inclusivity, which is hard to reject without sounding boorish, but there are actual practical concerns with the situation.
Yes, but they also thought that women were inferior to men and slavery was an awesome idea, so maybe they aren’t the best people to look back on for opinions.
and yet the entire enlightenment political infrastucture we have built is based on their ideas.
Nonsense. The Enlightenment was inspired by many ancient Greek and other philosophers, not just advocates of Athenian democracy.
ok.
That’s why you consider the reasons presented by those who invented democracy, rather than simply accepting an idea based entirely on who presented it.
You don’t have to answer me, but ask yourself if our current societies have too many competing ideals, that it’s hard to get anything important done.
They invented direct Athenian democracy.
The U.S. is the first constitutional republic. They are extremely different. This is like saying NASA engineers should consider why the Wright Brothers never left the atmosphere.
America’s problems have nothing to do with what the Ancient Greeks believed.
I mean, I don’t want to be too rude but look at the European democracies who are typically praised in contrast to the U.S. Their populations have been significantly more ethnically homogenous, and only recently have they begun to deal with significant immigrant populations of differently colored peoples. How have they done? Immediate rise of far-right groups and tons of anti-immigrant propoganda.
I’m not claiming the Greeks were right, I think they had a small-minded view of what diversity could bring them, but it is an interesting observation.
On the other hand look at the US, which has been extremely successful as an ethnically diverse republic and in fact wouldn’t be nearly as successful without that diversity. America has problems, but none of them are because there are a lot of different people there.
I mean, the massive number of racists who are currently trying to elect a fascist would disagree, and I think many minority groups would disagree that there haven’t been problems in the very recent past.
Certainly, the fault lies in the racists, but we can’t pretend that is not a problem directly caused by having an ethnically diverse country. It’s one that we’ll need to find a solution for, because otherwise we’ll always have a group who is willing to burn democracy to the ground because they hate people who have a different skin color.
I mean there are problems for minorities, but not for America as a whole I mean.
I think it’s debatable they only do it because they hate people with a different skin color. They also hate women and poor people, among other things, so while the rhetoric would be different I don’t think being a 100% white country would do much to curb the American far right.