• hark@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      That’s funny that you think you’re on the right side of history for supporting a genocidal ethnostate.

      • Sambarkjand@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        What’s the ethnic makeup of Israel? What’s the ethnic makeup of Palestine? Which one is closer to the definition of an ethno state? Do words not mean anything to you?

        • hark@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          You’re granted citizenship automatically if you’re Jewish and you get a free trip to go there. Being Jewish grants one special privileges. The country is based entirely on ethnicity and was established with that as a core principle. If it’s not technically considered an ethnostate, it’s about the closest that a country can be one without being one in that case.

        • hark@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Might makes right, huh? I already know Palestine will be completely ethnically cleansed and then israel will move onto taking parts of Syria and other countries in their goal of lebensraum. That doesn’t mean it’s morally right.

            • hark@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              The negotiations were argued in bad faith. Israel would put forth ridiculous demands and then lay the blame on Palestine for rejecting them. Why do you think Palestinians are being pushed out of Gaza and have been continually and constantly pushed out for decades? There was never a sincere effort for a two-state solution.

              Nobody wants to take on many refugees all at once, it’s very difficult to manage. Why do you think Britain “volunteered” Palestinian land to relocate Jews out of Europe? It wasn’t out of the goodness of their heart.

              • dubyakay@lemmy.ca
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                10 months ago

                No response to this of course. Don’t even expect one. They are currently with their fingers in their ears yelling “LALALLALALALA”

                • Sambarkjand@lemm.ee
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                  10 months ago

                  There’s literally a response just below yours, but of course taking the time to make sure you’re actually right is never a strong point for you people.

                  I personally find it very funny that the pro-Palestinian go-to is that none of the offers Israel made for a 2 state solution were ‘realistic’ or ‘serious’ or ‘good faith’. No one doubts that there were offers. Tell me, in what other scenario in all of human history do the losers of a war (that they started) get to dictate the terms of their surrender?

                • MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml
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                  10 months ago

                  Palestinians DON’T WANT TO GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY. THEY WANT TO STAY IN THEIR HOME THE PLACE THEIR FAMILIES HAVE LIVED FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS

                • hark@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  If driving out hamas is the only way this is going to be solved, why weren’t things solved before the existence of hamas? Egypt and saudi arabia have negotiated and a lot of money has exchanged hands to keep them docile. Egypt is high on the list of recipients of US foreign aid, i.e. money to shut up and behave according to US interests. The US clearly favored israel in the camp david meetings and even spied on egypt for the benefit of israel during that time (https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2020/02/12/cia-secretly-bought-global-encryption-provider-built-backdoors-spied-on-100-foreign-governments):

                  “In the meantime, more than 100 governments around the world, possibly as many as 120, purchased and employed the backdoored equipment. China and the Soviet Union, as it was then, weren’t amongst the buyers. However, Egypt was, and this apparently enabled the U.S. to monitor communications between Anwar Sadat and Cairo during the Egypt-Israel peace accord meeting at Camp David in 1978.”

                  Why are you focusing on other countries taking on refugees? These people shouldn’t be driven out of their homes to create refugees in the first place.

                • Grandwolf319
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                  10 months ago

                  It’s similar to Ukraine, they don’t want peace unless it means getting all their land back. You can literally apply the same logic and say Ukraine can stop the war if they just agree to peace today.

                  • duffman@lemmy.world
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                    10 months ago

                    If Ukraine has been firing rockets into Russia, the Russian invasion would have been justified.

                  • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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                    10 months ago

                    Ukraine has a viable path to military victory, Palestine does not. Israel was attacked and is counter attacking in defense, Russia invaded Ukraine under obvious bullshit pretext as a land grab. Your bias is obvious if you can’t see the difference.

        • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I guess we’ll see in 50 years which nation still exists.

          So if the Nazis won WWII, you’d support them? You’ve already made it clear you’re willing to support far-right genocidal ethnostates.

            • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Palestine isn’t genociding itself, and they were led by secular moderates until Israel backed Hamas to create the pretext for the genocide they’re now committing. They’ve been relegated to an open-air concentration camp as Israel kills orders of magnitude more Palestinians than Hamas kills Israelis. This is just far-right lunatics creating an ethnostate via genocide - like the Nazis.

              The Nazis weren’t about improving society - they wanted to kill multiple groups and suppress the rest. It’s a deeply stupid ideology in addition to being monstrous.

              Does your apparent “I think this monstrous bullshit is in my personal self-interest, so it’s justified” principle extend to Hamas attacking Israel? What if I’m homeless hungry and horny - do I get to kill you, take your house, rape your wife and eat your kid? If not, why not?

        • EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Israel hasn’t existed for a long ass time until the last century, shouldn’t that be evidence that Jewish people don’t belong there by your logic?

                • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  An apartheid state committing a genocide to create an ethnostate is acceptable self-interest? This isn’t self-defence - particularly when Israel backed Hamas over the secular moderates to create the pretext for this. Netanyahu is getting Israelis killed by both Hamas and the IDF.

                  I agree - Israel and the Nazis are stupid and monstrous, which is why I condemn both. What’s the material difference between the far-right, genocidal fascist ethnostates Israel and Nazi Germany as far as you’re concerned?

            • EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Israel is gonna wipe out everyone who was currently there, if you don’t like that you’re on the wrong side of history. Understood, all hail lord Netanyahu!

    • MindSkipperBro12@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Who the fuck cares about a claim from thousands of years ago? Can you even count how many Greats you would have to add to even reach your goat herder of a grandpa back when Jesus was still around?

      This is just trying to revive a dead dream and we all get to suffer for it.

      • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        That’s what drives me crazy about dated religions and ultra nationalism. We could have flying cars if people stopped with this shit

      • bartolomeo@suppo.fi
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        10 months ago

        I don’t really get the logic: is an older claim or a more recent claim to land “more valid”?

        • MindSkipperBro12@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          A recent claim is better. I care about the partitioning of the lands with the Sykes Picot Agreement, I don’t care about some inbred king of sandland did back in 147AD.

          • trafficnab@lemmy.ca
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            10 months ago

            Wouldn’t this mean that the millions of Israelis born in Israel over the last 80 years probably have the strongest claim to the land (at least the internationally recognized 1967 borders anyway)? 1916 is not particularly recent

    • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Yeah i think a couple of Neanderthals descendants have claims that go back tens of thousands of years. do they get the same sentiment from your bleeding hearth?

      Also my cousin has Etruscan blood, should he kick Italians out of Italy as he has a claim that goes back TWO thousands years and he’s got nowhere to go since his wife kicked him out?

      • Herbal Gamer
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        10 months ago

        bleeding hearth

        Maybe check your fireplace if it’s bleeding.

        • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          So those claims you talked about are just bullshit and it’s just about i want the land and am stronger so I just grab it. Fair enough you could have made it clear sooner so we wouldn’t all waste time pretending. While we are at it putin is also good for you isn’t it?

    • bufalo1973@lemmy.ml
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      10 months ago

      Now imagine a civil war begins in the US. Both sides get too weak. And then the Cherokee, Apache, … receive all the military help they need from, let’s say, China. And they start killing “every non Nation person” because “that was our land”. Would you say that’s right and that all and every white/black/Asian person deserve it?