Every time I read about this game I wonder who the hell is giving them all this money.
When I was in sales, I was always told “you can’t sell it unless you offer it”. There exists people who blow $48,000 on stupid stuff daily. What’s the harm in offering a product to that very small demographic? Maybe you get lucky and make a $48,000 sale doing literally nothing.
They’re not selling a product, they’re selling promises. The “product” is only worth something because it is supposed to materialize into in-game assets in the most ambitious, technologically advanced video game ever made.
Future will tell if those are empty promises. I personally believe that they are, and if the publisher knows for a fact that they are building vaporware, then it’s called a scam (though it’s essentially unprovable until the publisher “finishes” their game or goes out of business).
I know that salespeople aren’t usually big on ethics, but I believe that what RSI is doing is both unethical and (probably) illegal. They’ve gotten half a billion from their lies though so what the fuck do I know.
I used to work with a guy who spent several thousand dollars on ships, most of which were scheduled for release 3+ years away from when he gave up the money. I think he still hasn’t received some of them yet, but for some reason he keeps preordering even more ships. I would not be surprised if he spent $10k on this game already.
Sounds kind of like gambling to me. Put a lot of money in and maybe get something cool out of it. Thinking of it that way at least makes some sort of sense.
They have a very dedicated flock of whales (the industry term for microtransaction addicts). They know they have them hooked, and they are obviously intent on bleeding those whales dry for everything they own.
I don’t care how much I liked a game, if any publisher acted in this way I would never consider touching any of their games. This is absolutely criminal behaviour.
Idiots that will die on a hill defending the game, calling everyone who doubts it a “hater”.
Useful idiots to the Star Citizen devs, that’s for sure.
I don’t think there’s many of those people, are you imagining up someone to hate or have genuinely experienced someone like that?
Mandaloregaming did a video on Star Citozen a few years ago that had a lot of discussion on the (bacterial) culture of the community of star citizen at the time. I don’t know if it is relevant to the current community, though.
About 5 million investors/crowdfunders
deleted by creator
People who can afford to and want to support the game.
No, it’s people who can afford it and want to show off to others. Buying a soundtrack is supporting the game, spending more than most cars cost is flexing.
Nobody will know ingame if you are flying a ship bought with real money or earned ingame. Why is buying a soundtrack supporting the game but buying this pack is suddenly flexing? Is buying a $300 pack also flexing?
The fact is that this is a stupid amount of money for me or most of us to spend on a game but for many it’s not, so CIG offers this pack for people who want to support the game.
The person who buys this pack could, and probably would, show or tell others about all the ships they own. You don’t spend tens of thousands because you just want to support a game, you spend that much because you want to show off. They wouldn’t likely say, “I bought the $48k pack,” but they’d fly the most expensive ships around just because. That’s who this is for.
Isn’t it time to get some regulations on m(i/a)cro transactions? This seems very illegal to me and it is exploiting people’s addictions.
What really is probably illegal at this point is officially calling it all “pledges”, i.e. “donations”, and calling ships and stuff a “reward for the generous donation”.
Dudes, this is literally what a purchase is. If I don’t donate, I don’t get a ship (or even a base game).
This seems to be a ground to sue the hell out of them.
You can purchase the base games (Star Citizen and Squadron 42) for around $40.
Or you can wait until they’re released.
The larger packages are 100% unnecessary to play the games once they’re released, or the alpha versions now, and practically every ship they’re selling is also obtainable in-game, without paying for anything else than the base game (there might be a few limited edition exclusives, but those shouldn’t provide any significant gameplay advantages).
Hell, you can even play for free every once in a while (granted, whenever that happens it’s to stress test the servers and engine to the breaking point, so it’ll probably be a suboptimal experience, but still, it is an option.)
Any money you give CIG after that base game price is 100% out of your own volition, and won’t get you anything you can’t get in-game (and last time I checked CIG were pretty clear about that).
It’s basically giving them money in exchange for nothing of any real value (again, with the arguable exception of any exclusive or limited edition ships). Sounds an awful lot like a donation to me.
I never said it’s not voluntary. The decision to buy the game is voluntary as well.
But it being voluntary doesn’t mean it’s not purchase. When you buy, idk, jewelry, or something to the same extent of not-survival-necessity, it’s still a purchase.
And here it is as well. It is not a pledge, it is not a donation. When you’re explicitly asked to “pledge” to get a ship, it’s a purchase.
You’re not asked to “pledge” to the jewelry shop and get a “kind owner’s gift” of your earring? You just buy it.
You’re asked to “pledge” to PBS to get a tote bag
Of their own volition? Do you think the complaint is that people think these purchases are done by players held at gunpoint?
No, but some are arguing that they might be due to peer pressure (which I find unlikely in this particular case, but if someone can be peer pressured into wasting $48,000 on digital assets, they probably can easily afford it), or gambling addiction (which also seems unlikely to apply in this case), since those are common causes of people (especially children) wasting money on microtransactions.
peer pressure and ones wealth is probably inversely related if anything.
deleted by creator
What’s illegal about it? Are they committing some kind of fraud? Is there some threat of harm if people don’t buy it (i.e. extortion)? Where exactly is the potential crime?
Yeah, it would be pretty stupid to buy this in general, especially if you can’t actually afford it, but being stupid isn’t illegal.
Fomo is a form of coercion, and im pretty sure that’s a crime in this case. The industry uses underhanded and shady practices to get people to spend money on things that have no intrinsic value.
I can see from your comment that its possible you haven’t looked into this very much because you sound like me a few yesrs ago when i didnt see the harm as im not particularly susceptible to the ways they pedal microtransactions/in game purchases.
lol it very obviously is not a crime. It’s not even a civil action.
I don’t support the whale business model for video games, but the idea that it’s somehow a crime is a laughable lack of understanding of the law.
Not coercion in regards to shady business practices. But in 2015 in the uk coercian was made a criminal offence. Since im from the uk you can understand where im coming from when i say its a crime.
It does not even loosely resemble the broad, non-legal definition of coercion in any way. There are zero similarities. Let alone the statutory definition, which is not near as broad.
It also is not and does not resemble FOMO, which is also not illegal anywhere and is practiced by every business on the planet.
No, fomo isn’t illegal. Coercion is. And although the legal definition of coercion doesnt include the mental distress one feels when feeling like they might miss out it doesnt mean that it cant be argued from a philosophical angle that fomo is a form of coercion.
Your view that it bares zero resemblance is very static.
Only a sith deals in absolutes 😜
No valid definition of coercion has any resemblance in any context to what is happening here.
Some things are absolute, and the fact that you don’t even sort of have any idea what you’re talking about is one of them. You’re not making a “philosophical argument”. You’re spouting completely incoherent gibberish.
No, fomo is not a form of coercion whatsoever. Here’s the legal definition in the federal legal code:
coercion
(2) The term “coercion” means— (A) threats of serious harm to or physical restraint against any person; (B) any scheme, plan, or pattern intended to cause a person to believe that failure to perform an act would result in serious harm to or physical restraint against any person; or © the abuse or threatened abuse of law or the legal process.
So it requires the threat or implied threat of serious harm or abuse of the law against a person.
And no, not looking cool or being at the top of a game isn’t “serious harm,” you’d be laughed out of the courtroom and perhaps fined for wasting everyone’s time if you tried to make that legal argument.
Im not making a legal argument… im making a philosophical one.
The original context of this chain is a legal one:
Isn’t it time to get some regulations on m(i/a)cro transactions? This seems very illegal to me and it is exploiting people’s addictions.
Yes, you didn’t say that, but you responded in that context. I asked “what is illegal about it?” and you directly replied with the note about coercion. To me, that clearly implies you think this is a form of legal coercion, and now you’re backpedaling because I showed that’s explicitly not true. You’re moving the goalposts.
That completely fair. You can definitely interpret that implication from what i said. I need to be more careful with my choice of words in future.
However, i assure you my intent was not to make a legal argument.
I was saying that coercion is illegal, which is true. And that i believe that fomo is a form of coercion, which would be my opinion. But it doesn’t read that way.
Sorry.
No worries, it just gets confusing when terms are used loosely and differently in a conversation.
For the record, I disagree that both that FOMO is a form of coercion (even the regular dictionary definition implies force is involved) and believe it shouldn’t be illegal to entice adults with it, but there should be limits on marketing to children. That said, any form of advertising can be considered a form of fomo, so I’m not exactly sure where the line should be. That said, we do have limits on fraud, which covers things like making unrealistic claims (e.g. this cosmetic will make you win). It’s disgusting, but shouldn’t be illegal.
Google tells me “fomo” is probably an acronym for “fear of missing out” (it’d probably help make your points clearer if you didn’t obfuscate them behind acronyms the people you’re talking might not be familiar with, by the way).
Supposing that’s the case… what is there to miss out on in Star Citizen…? Any package above the base ones (which get you the games for about $40) give you absolutely nothing that you can’t get in-game (with the arguable exception of a few limited edition ships, which in any case shouldn’t offer any in-game advantages and can probably be considered cosmetic)… you’re not missing out by not buying them…
Google tells me “fomo” is probably an acronym for “fear of missing out” (it’d probably help make your points clearer if you didn’t obfuscate them behind acronyms the people you’re talking might not be familiar with, by the way).
I guess it’s a good thing you used such a common word as obfuscate when making a point about clarity then…
Supposing that’s the case… what is there to miss out on in Star Citizen…? Any package above the base ones (which get you the games for about $40) give you absolutely nothing that you can’t get in-game (with the arguable exception of a few limited edition ships, which in any case shouldn’t offer any in-game advantages and can probably be considered cosmetic)… you’re not missing out by not buying them…
Fomo or fear of misaing out iant exclusive to items or skins etc that can only be gained via purchase.
I could go deep into this, but i want to try to be concise here to save on massive paragraphs
Fomo applies to any situation where someone could miss out on the player experience that other people get. So, being behind other people or everyone else in a game increases the likelihood that you will make a purchase to catch up.
A good example is the battle pass in overwatch 2, which gives you instant access to the newest character. If you dont owm the battle pass, you have to grind for weeks to get a character that everyone else seems to have, and you have to play against that character whilst you sit there feeling left out.
So if you want the character now, you have to buy the battle pass. This creates alot of pressure to make the purchase in people who are susceptible to fomo or peer pressure.
Did you know that in schools, kids thst play fortnite get bullied for being a “default” because they only have the basic default skin which adds pressure on.
It’s not only kids who experience this. Adults do aswell and the evidence is quite clear when a game company can price a pack at 48k because of a precedent set by whales and krakens (players thst spend obscene amounts of money on in game purchases) that legitimises that price point.
I’ve never noticed “obfuscate” being an uncommon word, but English is my third language, so what do I know. At least you can find it in a dictionary, I suppose, which won’t be the case with some obscure acronym. 🤷♂️
As for this fear of missing out you’re obsessively trying to shoehorn onto Star Citizen… we’re not talking about a race here, there’s no getting behind, there’s no winning other than having fun and achieving whatever objectives you set for yourself (talking about the Star Citizen MMO specifically here, not Squadron 42, but the ships they’re selling now won’t be playable on the single player game, so it’s mostly irrelevant to this discussion, other than as yet another way to weaken the missing out argument, since it very evidently doesn’t apply to that game).
This isn’t some microtransaction ridden malware like Fortnite or Overwatch (and I’d say any comparison to that crap is ill informed or disingenuous), this is a fucking space sim… There’s no microtransactions, there’s no pay to win, there are no season passes, there’s no such thing as a better ship… it’s a rock paper scissors situation, some ships will be better for some things, some better for others, and no matter how many you own you won’t be piloting more than one at once (and the larger ones you probably won’t be able to pilot or defend alone, so they’ll be worthless to you if you don’t have a group of friends to help man them).
If all you care about is fighting other players (personally I have no interest in that, but to each their own), sure, maybe having a better combat ship (which you’ll easily be able to obtain in-game anyway) will make a difference… but not as much as your piloting skill (same if you want to be a racer), and much less than being part of some player organisation.
But there’s so much more to do… you might want to explore (in which case the main “missing out” factor will probably be how early you get into the game… which, since all beta progress will be reset before release, you can’t buy into no matter how much you pay), you might want to be a trader or smuggler, or miner, or whatever.
Is CIG preying on people with too much money and too little sense…? Possibly (though if I’m not mistaken they asked for this particular everything package, and they seem to be enjoying their ship collecting, so if that’s what they want to waste their money in, let them, I say)… but that won’t give them any significant advantage over players who just bought the basic game, and they’re well aware of that.
If there’s any pressure here it’s from the whales to CIG, asking for more new shiny ships for their collections, not the other way around.
Obfuscate is not a commonly used word. English is my 1st language. So im pretty confident about that. And the point isn’t that the word isn’t common. It’s that you were trying to say i used an uncommon word and described it using an obscure word. Which is really ironic.
Fomo isn’t obscure just because you haven’t heard of it. It also isn’t nonsense just because you aren’t affected by it. I’m not affected either, i dont buy things with real money in games. But i can see that it’s real.
The shortest way to counter you here is to simply say: it’s clear from your reply that you accept fomo exists. Its also clear that you agree that CIG are employing predatory tactics to squeeze money out of gullible people. But mainly its clear that you missed the part where i mentioned that skins in fortnite are a massive money maker in the fomo market. They dont affect your gameplay (basically your entire countrr argument) but they are a huge money maker for epic games because its all about peer pressure.
You can pretend that people other than youself arent affected by fomo in star citizen but it won’t make you right. Cosmetic items are one of the biggest factors in fomo and making it work. Most games dont offer advantages that you can pay for.
I am happy to accept that i dont know much at all about SC as i dont play it. But what im “shoehorning” is not fake just becauee you dont see it and it doesn’t affect you.
Im not even trying to prove a point here. Fomo and game companies use of it is a fact. And it applies here.
Obfuscate is not a commonly used word
Really? I’m a native speaker and I use it a lot. Maybe not in casual conversations with friends, but I use it a ton in a workplace setting and when discussing current events in a more than passing manner. Looks like it’s gotten steadily more popular in texts since the 50s.
And yeah, fomo isn’t obscure, but it is an acronym that’s relatively recently become popular (Google trends says the last 10-ish years).
Regardless, arguing about whether words are uncommon is silly, English usage varies by region, and people who speak English as a second language can have a really odd set of vocabulary.
What the everloving fuck?
What?
Isn’t it what regulations are for?
Plus a lot of micro transactions and all kinds of bullshit like this are targeting the adolescents so at least they should be bound by law that whoever purchases those virtual goods is above 18 at least.
Microtransactions in games mainly played by minors should be illegal, yes (and in some countries they are), as they’re basically a form of gambling… but people giving CIG money are mostly those who played Wing Commander back in the nineties and want a modern version of that, so there’s little risk of kids being involved, at least until the games are properly released (and, even then, they’re PC exclusive, and most kids are probably on consoles or mobile devices), at which point as I understand it these ship sales are supposed to stop… and there’s nothing micro about them… if I recall correctly the smallest package (which would get you a base ship and the two games) goes for about $40…
I don’t think $48k still counts as a “micro” transaction…
Exactly, there’s no microtransactions in Star Citizen.
Whatever we call the way it’s funded, and regardless of what we think of it, it’s not microtransactions.
Lootboxes are gambling.
Buying specific known digital items is a gross business model, but has no resemblance to gambling.
No, but it should still be banned for minors since they’re particularly sensitive to peer pressure. They can make decisions for themselves when they’re adults.
I agree, that part might be illegal because adolescents cannot legally consent (in most cases). So there’s a chance there, but my guess is that an adolescent isn’t going to be making a $48k MTX purchase (they aren’t old enough to legally have debt, and probably not old enough to earn that much).
In general though, I can’t think of any law this violates.
deleted by creator
What’s fraudulent about it? Here’s the definition of fraud:
A deception practiced in order to induce another to give up possession of property or surrender a right.
The legal definition is either an intentional or (usually reckless) negligent misrepresentation of fact. From what I’ve seen, every manipulative MTX game never misrepresented any facts (you will get X if you pay Y), they just create an environment where you want the thing more than you normally would (e.g. the thing won’t be available tomorrow). That’s not fraud, it’s just FOMO, the crux of advertising.
deleted by creator
There’s a difference between being “a fraud” and being unsuccessful. Development continues, and people seem to like the direction it’s going, so it’s not like they abandoned the project and ran off with the money.
I think it’s part scam, part poorly managed game, but I don’t think it fits the legal definition of “fraud” since they’ve largely delivered on their promises, just incredibly slowly and inefficiently.
deleted by creator
Exploiting peoples addictions is what literally drives capitalism.
Removed by mod
The great thing about capitalism is that I can choose where I spend my money. And use my money to make money. If people wanna be stupid with their money, that’s on them. I don’t give a shit if they go broke because that is on them.
Hahahaha
Removed by mod
Given that EVERY single company in the top 10 largest companies by market cap are luxury goods, your comment is less valid
Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon and Tesla hardly sell essential products
Removed by mod
Cope
Removed by mod
The government is not your parents and they do not exist to protect you from your own bad decisions.
Why am I paying them to allow consumers (which I am a group member) to get fucked over?
If you’re paying almost $50k for video game items the only person fucking you over is you. Grow up and learn a little bit about personal responsibility.
Did you buy the pack but it sucked?
I just couldn’t resist, the devs showed up at my house with guns, it was a whole thing. If only the state would step in and regulate stupidity!
That’s exactly what they exist for
They exist to protect you from other people. You can waste your money on whatever dumbass shit you want.
But what if you don’t actually want it, but you are addicted because other people exploit the psychology of humans?
One could argue that it’s “their fault”, but then everything is ones own fault. Furthermore this wouldn’t change the fact IMHO, that we shouldn’t prevent people from exploiting or harming other people, yk what I mean?
Anyways, as this doesn’t seem to be a loot box or such, I think I agree with you here mostly.
Addicted to what? This isn’t a loot box, there’s no gambling seratonin rush. This package unlocks stuff you could earn by simply playing the game. It’s an expensive cheat code. How many people are addicted to that? Does your crime have a victim?
I don’t think they expect anyone to buy this. I think this is a marketing move. “Our game is so big that if you were to buy all these items individually they’d cost as much as a new Lexus. What a value!”. Pure PR stuntery. And here we are, discussing it, so it worked.
Microtransactions are entering the endgame.
They invented megatransactions.
Macrotransactions
I think the craziest thing for me, if I’m reading this right, is that the pack includes all ships released and concepted. So you’re paying for ships that aren’t even in the game yet? You just have concept art and the promise that they might be in the game?
Pinky swear bro, we’ll make em
Star Citizen has long history of ship pre-purchases long before release
I didn’t even know people still cared about this shit show
Just play Elite Dangerous and be done with this scam already.
Oh yes, Space Truck Simulator 2
deleted by creator
I don’t get why someone would do that to themselves.
Congratulations you have all the content of an exploration and building game right away. You cannot seek any enjoyment anymore from working towards and achieving anything in the game. You paid for not playing the game.
deleted by creator
