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- cross-posted to:
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No, one company isn’t ‘forcing’ diversity into all your favorite video games
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people unironically calling things woke arent exactly the brightest inviduals
rather see some more neutral reporting and investigation on what this company actually does, seems like pointless outrage right now
They’re just a consultancy service - hardly worth investigating. Seems that they purport to offer expertise on how a developer can improve diversity and inclusion in their products.
Like any consultancy, whether they can actually do this and whether their clients will actually implement it effectively are another matter entirely.
The Steam group creator seems to think either they’re garbage or that their clients’ approach to diversity and inclusion is garbage. (Or maybe they’re just some alt-right incel Nazi <insert favoured pejorative here…>)
I think the amount of outrage a Steam Curator group has generated solely by pointing out that $game used $consultancy_service indicates that there is something deeper about the subject. No smoke without fire and all that.
People said the same shit during Pizzagate. And look what happened there. There isn’t smoke here, it’s made up outrage, which is more akin to folks kicking up dust. In this case I think they’ve huffed too much of their own fart dust.
People have poor mental health, no control of their lives, no control over the industry through their consumerism like they pretend (the average person buying Spiderman 2 doesn’t give a shit about this controversy), and so they are looking to shit on a consultancy company to make themselves feel like they have any power. The reality is most people just care whether a game is good or not, not whether it has DEI elements included or whatever else.
“Sure, this guy might be a bigot, but look how upset people are by his bigotry! There must be something to what he’s saying, it can’t just be that people really don’t like bigots!”
That may be the dumbest take I’ve heard on this. With that kind of “logic”, it would mean maybe the Earth really is flat, because so many people are outraged that someone could believe something that stupid. More “We’re just asking questions here” bullshit used as a smokescreen for rampant bigotry and misogyny.
If it’s really so misguided why does it need this much attention?
<hands you shovel since you just seem to like digging yourself further in the hole>
So let me get this straight in terms of your POV: things that are incorrect shouldn’t be corrected? Especially in the context of a bunch of neckbearded incels who doxxed, swatted, and generally hounded people during that whole GamerGate stupidity?!
Yeah, I really can’t understand why someone looking at the history might want to investigate and correct if needed wildly inaccurate claims. /s
Well apparently the people down voting you prove that you have a point! Why else would they be outraged? Where there’s smoke there’s fire (or some stupid bullshit).
Imagine hate speech attacking games for having variety in their characters upsetting people.🤷🏼♀️
Motherfuckers need real struggle in their lives if this is the shit they’re wasting their time on. Art will be diverse, always has been. Get the fuck over yourself and move on to something that caters to whatever bullshit narrative you need to wake up everyday and be an ignorant piece of shit. I mean, the Bible is a work of fiction that’s been whitewashed with a cracker ass jesus, how about we start there?
Apologies for the rant, I usually have this type of nonsense filtered outta my feed.
These are people who rely on “I may be a piece of shit, but at least I’m not (minority group)” to get through their day and not have to try to be a better person. If minority groups get treated as well as “normal” people there will be no one for them to look down on!
Man, I hadn’t even thought about that. Valid point.
I hope they get to truly enjoy their experience of being a white male minority soon! Maybe that’ll help with the empathy some day.
I hope they get to truly enjoy their experience of being a white male minority soon!
The main reason that scares them is that they are worried that if they become a minority they will be treated the same way that they have been treating minorities.
I have no doubts about that. It’s a sentiment I hear echoed all the time in the smaller PNW town I live in. How can someone possibly have freedoms and equality unless it’s taken from someone else.
Anyone else sometimes get sideways glances from people when they tell others that video games are a big hobby you enjoy? Yeah, dumbass shit like this whole saga is why.
It doesn’t matter. These angry idiots have a narrative, and no amount of polite talking is going to convince them they were assholes.
No, but it does explain to everyone else who is wondering “why are people upset about SBI?”
“Oh just a bunch of bigots chasing their next outrage. Best to have nothing to do with them.”
Ignoring the controversy for a second, I do think your writing is going to be shit if you outsource it, it just screams “I don’t give a fuck, let some intern I can’t even supervise do it”. So while this company isn’t egregious per se, the fact it exists and there’s a demand for it spells a bigger issue with the industry.
If you don’t have the talent internally, you hire someone else to do it. Is it shit to hire someone to make the music? To make the engine? Why is the writing different?
And even if you do have the talent internally you can still seek specialised feedback on your work - most authors work with editors for example.
The only reason this case is notable is because of the reactionary response to the “woke” games industry (and games journalism in particular). This is just another round of nonsense in this culture war, so people on either side are staking out ridiculous positions.
If I don’t have the talent, I’d hire the talent and work with them directly. Not hire some firm and tell them “yes we need to maximize the player engagement portfolio metric synergized meta narrative systems” and whatever other corporate words I could fit in.
Which is specifically what my post was criticizing, unless you’re going to try to tell me that doesn’t happen.
So you’d hire a full time employee while paying for a recruitment process, on-boarding, and then full pay and benefits to help write a game that may take three years to complete and may never actually be completed or released and may never receive a sequel. Oh and your next project might not be suitable for their skills. Genius! Can’t wait to see what games your gaming company releases!
Hell, why stop there - Every Hollywood movie studio should also just hire a bunch of in-house writers and have them write everything. You think movies are bland and unoriginal now - just you wait! And why do book publishers work with so many different authors? They should just hire 12 or so and have them write everything? 🙄
I don’t know why you’re being pissy, that’s how most indie companies work…
“Most indie companies” neither hire consultants nor add a bunch of full time employees - they don’t have the money for it. At first I was thinking you just didn’t understand how games are made, but now I’m thinking you don’t understand how general business works.
I had to double check that you aren’t a troll account, and you are. Bye!
It seems like they’re working closely with people at the actual studios, not just having work farmed out to them.
In this thread:
“How dare they ask the company what it does. The headline must be written first because it’s what I read first.”
“If we assume the problem doesn’t exist, then why is there a solution?”
“Artists seeking consultation sounds like censorship. Especially if they recommend it to other artists!”
“The only reason you’d try to avoid offending people is so you can have sex at them.”
Yeah can’t imagine why these companies have people check their work now.
I’ve wondered what the term was for someone who acts like an incel, but might have had sex at one point or another. I guess it’s “anti-woke”, or whatever they’re calling themselves now.
The word is fascist.
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I wish that was why.
Fuck me sideways, do I wish that was why.
The actual reason - if you are a person who cares about reasons - is that their opinions amount to ingroup-supremacist reactionary violence. These people reliably mumble that they’re ‘not against’ the barest recognition of ethnic, sexual, or cultural minorities, they’re just against it ‘when it’s forced.’ And then you press them the tiniest bit and find out they’ll call literally any inclusion ‘forced.’
Incel rhetoric didn’t cause mass shootings by accident. It’s the same emotionally-manipulative, grievance-driven, scapegoat-centric, cult-of-machismo bullshit that Eco described in Ur-Fascism, thirty-odd years ago. These people getting mad at video games are cut from that same mold. “Gamergate” in particular has demonstrable immediate ties to right-wing assholes making shit up to rattle a bunch of undersocialized young men into harassing women and minorities off the internet and into hiding.
Sometimes taking what seems like the right stand on an issue can deepen the harm - be careful about getting too extreme.
For example when the whole “gamergate” thing was going on and people were like “Why can’t I just enjoy Tomb Raider?” - one side was standing up for diversity and inclusion by denouncing them as basement-dwelling incels who should self-terminate. So that naturally drove some to those right-wing assholes.
Sometimes it takes a bit of work to change someone’s context so they can get closer to your perspective.
You can’t reason someone out of an opinion they didn’t reason themselves into.
Exceptionally well written explanation. Thanks! :)
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Most are just against bad writing in favor of “diversity”.
But they seem to be so critical of “bad writing” that includes diversity, and seem to never talk about bad writing that doesn’t include diversity. If nothing else, it’s suspicious.
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Did having a female protagonist ruin Star Wars?
I think Star Wars was destined to be ruined by the time Disney bought it. Hell, people had been saying the franchise was dead since at least episode I…
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It’s “conservative.”
No no, its just “woke”. The only way woke people can get laid is by extortion.
Can you explain what you mean by woke?
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I mean woke is usually when everything has Female, LGBT or Black characters in it that don’t fit the story at all and or are written to be a walking cliche and or are just obviously there for “diversity”.
So, that means almost nothing is woke then? Because I see very few requirements for when something “fits the story”. There’s a lot of shitty writing though, always has been and always will be, but according to you, when a white guy has crap writing, it’s just crap writing, but when a black woman has crappy writing, it’s woke?
Esg has opened the flood gates for poor writing, we are used to the hero tale where someone comes from a normal to difficult background, theyre thrown into a situation they cant handle and so they must become strong, they in the end do become strong and that is the character ark.
Investment check boxing has made a scene where character arks are avoided, a black woman can’t be viewed as week as the company’s esg score will go down so now there is media depicting only strong character which is highly unrelatable.
I am all for inclusivity but it need to be done right and not for an investment rating, its akin to rainbow flag banners on socials whilst funding a racists campaign.
I think you need to remove the rose-coloured glasses, and look at how much utter crap there used to be 20 years ago. Or 10 years. Or 50 years.
You’re pretty much cherrypicking all the shitty-writing-with-non-white/male-characters, and completely ignoring all the shitty-writing-with-white-male-characters. 90% of everything is crap, but if you cherrypick all the diverse characters that suck, then yeah, you’re going to find a lot of shitty diverse characters.
I didn’t pick anything, there has and will always be shitty writing. But that doesn’t mean I’m okay with it, especially when race, gender, sexuality are used as a vehicle to profit whilst adding little to no substance.
The issue is obvious where we can’t risk having a weak diverse character as it could harm esp rating and in turn profits, so we have a diverse characters that are strong and aren’t relatable.
Look at game like Hellblade Senuas Sacrifice, it wasn’t made to appease the esg system, yet its opened people up to mental health, gender, power struggles. Hands down its amazing story telling.
Not a game but the documentary about Jeffrey Dahmer that was recently aired on netflix was also eye open, then there the old but gold Rosemary’s Baby again great story telling.
As if white guys are the default and it’s everyone else who’s different.
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“I’m angry at black people so it’s their fault!”
Aaand blocked.
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I think they are saying most attempts at diversity come from middle aged white guys and just end up being poorly done and so detract from the game/story.
Similar to how 00’s electronic companies just painted it pink to appeal to women or why South Park added Token.
So arguing for more diversity within the companies themselves
Lmao, what?
Being aware of societal issues affecting minority populations is a magnificent way to get laid.
Even South Park parodied it!
It doesn’t seem weird that caring about others can be a very attractive trait in a person.
Thinking this is about access to vaginas is a crystal clear example of the cult of machismo.
Hold on, have to confess to my wife that I’ve been extorting her, wish me luck
lol. This is your brain on the manosphere.
“Could the “woke” fellas be getting laid simply by treating women like human beings rather than objects? No, it’s obviously extortion.”
I spoke with several employees of Sweet Baby Inc. to learn what the company actually does and how the misunderstanding of its role in the industry highlights a far broader problem.
You don’t know what Sweet Baby Inc. does, but you assume the people complaining about SBI must be incorrect? Do journalists in any other sector of the market fall all over themselves rushing to defend companies like they do in game development?
The alternative is believing everything without confirming anything, do you think that’s better?
Isn’t it weird how your mom keeps having sex with your opponents in call of duty?
I would never play CoD but I’m definitely on that list :)
The first thing in the sentence is literally them learning about what the company does, directly from the source. Who exactly do you think is more qualified to comment on it? Random internet users with no relation to the industry?
Do you think the headline was written first, because it’s what you read first?
🔥
upper echelon did a good piece on this
Edit: noticing a few down votes, if clicking on the video and seeing “woke” as the video image is off putting then please notice its in quotations.
As for the content, well informed about the industry and how esg rating system has lead to check boxing. The video is not saying to avoid inclusivity in vedeo games it is however saying that company’s are riding on inclusivity to make money and they’re doing so in a lazy way that doesnt seem to help the cause.
If the art was already written with diverse characters like they were before companys like this existed then why do you have to hire a firm to make it diverse. A piece of art should not have another company come in and make “suggestions” on things to change to fit inside of a narrative.
If you read the article you’d find out that writing diverse characters isn’t a focus of this company. Once again “gamers” completely misunderstand how games are made.
A piece of art should not have another company come in and make “suggestions” on things to change to fit inside of a narrative.
Right, nobody should ever get feedback or suggestions when making art. That’s why all good games and movies only have 1 writer who also directs.
triumph of the will was good actually 🙄
are you actually serious?
It’s still a safer bet to avoid whatever they consult on, they’ve an eye for trash writing and they thrive on “fixing” that. And companies that hire them are just out there to make a quick buck rather than creating a good story, experience or game.
its a good scam create problem that you are the solution to and you never have to face the consequences of what you do because you never make your own games you always work on other peoples games as consulted so that it can never be traced back to you unless you make it public and publish it on your own sweet baby site as promotion to do it again.
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Source?
Easier to just link you to a youtube video that does that for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1G-BDswd6M
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=-1G-BDswd6M
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
So you don’t actually have a source then? What a surprise considering your post history and the communities you’re a mod for.
More like it’s not worth tracking down the archives for deleted tweets.
Well, I guess if the claim is not worth backing up, it’s probably not worth listening to. Thanks!
Whens the last time you saw anyone actually read a provided source?
So you admit you provided a bullshit YouTube link because you’re not engaging with any sort of good faith intent to inform?
You must be fun at parties
A mod in Conservative, I’m very not surprised.
Downvoted for asking for a source for claims of “literal” threats?? 🤣 Some people are kindof a trip.
This particular take that’s going around seems to be almost as stupid as Sweet Baby Inc’s attempted takedown of the Steam group.
They’re just pointing out reality - gaming media is “woke”, if your product doesn’t check the diversity and inclusion boxes it will be criticized, “hire us to help”. They’re basically a PR firm.
This isn’t them threatening to cause the damage, they’re not The Mob - “Say, that’s a nice game you got there. Be a shame if something happened to it.”
, if your product doesn’t check the diversity and inclusion boxes it will be criticized, “hire us to help”.
That’s textbook extortion. “Nice product you got there, be a shame if twitter didn’t like it. Maybe pay us some money, make sure nothing untoward happens to your product”
I mean, how is it not.
Me observing that it’s cold out and offering to sell you some gear so you can avoid frostbite isn’t extortion.
Me threatening to break your legs if you don’t buy something is.
Hope that helps.
