You know what sucks? For all the employees there, including HR, they would definitely sympathize with the person pulling this.
The people at the top however? CEOs and whatnot? They wouldn’t fucking care. I don’t even think they would have an ounce of sympathy.
That’s the reality.
HR is much more closely aligned with the CEO than the employees
Correct. They are there to manage the company’s human resources. They’re not there to help us. It’s in the name of their title. The company perceives people as nothing but another resource to exploit.
You are implying people choose to work in HR because they are heartless corporate bootlickers who like crushing people’s lives, and not because, idk, it’s a job they get paid to do
That’s not what I’m implying. Lots of us have to do stuff for our paychecks that we wouldn’t do otherwise. HR people seem to be pretty cool to me. HR departments and policies are not there to help you, they’re there to protect the company’s resources.
Well if they have a problem with it why are they doing it?
Do you enjoy everything about your job? I certainly don’t love everything about my job. I have to break bad news to a lot of people and it sucks.
But it’s a job that needs to be done, and I’m good at it. There’s satisfaction in doing something well, even if it’s something that’s unpleasant.
No, I don’t always enjoy my job but I sure as hell did not sell my soul and only exist to fuck over my fellow workers.
They might but they probably won’t wouldn’t even be aware
Exactly. Humans are funny, irrational beings. We feel these things like sympathy super strongly when we see another person suffering.
Without the direct sight though, we don’t feel it.
So maybe the CEO would if he was there, but chances are he isn’t so he doesn’t.
It’s a big part about why it’s not what you know but who you know that’s so important in life.
I wonder why it’s like that? After all they’re the same raw material - human.
It must be because upper management is culled, is screened, for selecting heartlessness and ruthlessness, and the lack of sympathy.
They hire people who only care about big number go up
Well technically the worst (but absolutely legal) thing you can do, from their perspective is to be very well versed in your rights for the state or province you’re in. Is it a dismissal without cause? Then what severance are they offering? Did your negotiate it? Basically they’ll want you to sign something and promise not to sue - in exchange to signing this they’ll offer something. Negotiate that… Usually in the form of X weeks of pay per years of service at your employer, but X can vary and be negotiated. You can also negotiate a referral letter from your boss even though companies usually say “we don’t make referral letters” - as part of my package negotiation you will…
I hope it helps!!
What happens when they refuse to negotiate? Do you then sue?
My guess is that this technique works better with a small company — trying to get cute with a multinational with the legal budget of a small nation (and ironclad contracts + knowledge of local regulations) might not work well.
You might - refusing to sign, sending a well written formal notice, articulating a good demand with a rationale. It could be that based on your skills, the economy, opportunities in your field, etc that their standard severance won’t “make you whole”, i.e. allow you to find replacement employment that pays the same in a reasonable timeframe.
Ultimately a judge might rule that you had a reasonable expectation of financial stability from your employer, and by laying you off they’re taking that away. The severance is there to bridge that expectation, so if you can demonstrate that their offered severance package is really far, you have a case.
Now the employer knows that - so if you prepare properly and ask/negotiate you have a shot!
Knives at dawn
No. You can almost never sue. At-Will employment is the standard almost everywhere.
But you can typically claim unemployment if you’re terminated without cause.
The United States of America is the only country with At-Will employment. Far from ‘everywhere’.
They may call it different things different places, but many places have a similar setup.
People can be terminated with cause at no penalty. If they are terminated without cause, the employer has to pay unemployment. If they’re terminated illegally (e.g. discrimination or for union organization) they can be sued.
The vast majority of the time an employer cannot be sued just for firing you, but that’s because there are other consequences for termination of an employee without cause that don’t need to go to court.
In Canada there has to be a valid reason to fire someone. However, you can always lay someone off. Two similiar, but quite different things.
That’s essentially At-Will employment. If you don’t have cause in the US, it’s a layoff and you have to pay unemployment. If you do, then they’re fired and you don’t.
“for any reason, without notice” is a part of at-will. That’s illegal here. So I don’t think it’s the same.
Mfw I work in an “at will” employment state.
That’s funny and all, but the real answer is call in sick to fuck with them, provided it’s the kind of job with sick time/vacation time.
provided it’s the kind of job with sick time/vacation time.
And even if it isn’t, what’re they gonna do? Double-fire you?
Hah well no, but they also won’t pay that last day. If you use PTO they have to pay you and might not even fire you that day because of HR rules about needing to be in person/with witnesses etc
Well, you’d lose your last day of paid employment, which is a big deal to most people with jobs that don’t have paid time off.
Oh. Yeah, that’s a good point. Guess I need to check my “living in a country with humane labor laws” privilege lol
I assume they would use PTO for that day. But then I guess that means your PTO payout will be smaller, so still a net loss.
Not everywhere has guaranteed PTO payouts, so burn that shit while you can and use the time to get a new job.
Theres also the bullshit of “unlimited time off” where there’s not a definitive payout in places that DO guarantee PTO payout.
This is the best answer in the thread. Use all the sick time you have left before they fire you.
Funny story: I was on vacation when a previous job ended in layoffs, which happened on a Friday. On Sunday night I got an IM from a coworker letting me know about the layoffs, but I still went into work on Monday, feigning ignorance. Here, if you show up for work but they have no more work for you, they still have to pay you for a minimum of 3 hours. Anyway, unemployment Insurance is a federal thing, here. They still delayed the 2 weeks of pay they would normally have to pay it by calling it a temporary layoff, though they paid it 6 months later when temporary became permanent.
Years later at a different job, I was home, sick from food poisoning when layoffs happened. Came into work the next day only to be invited by the HR person into a meeting room where they explained what had happened. I still had a small assignment I’d promised to a VP, so I asked if I could just finalize it and send it off. They let me and I did it (took maybe 30 minutes) and then I left. About 4 years later, when I was looking for work, that VP remembered me, and that contributed to being rehired there in a new position, and I’ve been with that same employer now for the past 12 years (that VP has since left.) Best place I ever worked at, both times.
And then come back in like a month or just mess with them. Pretend you don’t know about the firing.
You can be laid off while not in the office or out on paid leave.
In many places paid time off is counted as compensation, which means they have to pay it to you if they let you go or fire you. So check that first as well.
Take a couple sick days and spread a rumor that the boss is gonna fire his lover because he/she also fucked his partner.
I was torn up because I had to fire a switchboard operator who just couldn’t make it in on time. It’s one of those jobs where you have to be there when the business says it’s open. She got some warnings and then within a week she was late again. I had to fire her. During the termination meeting she said “This is harder for you than it is for me.”
Was she trying to get fired?
Not really. But she didn’t care much. She knew what the rest of us learned from COVID. Your life doesn’t depend on your job. Shortly after this event she went to Africa.
Her life didn’t depend on anything within a thousand miles of that job apparently
Based
They’ll most likely just grab a cupcake, shake your hand for the twins announcement, then let you go five minutes before quiting time.
Saying something implicating a protected class like “I’m pregnant” might provoke some panicked calls to HR and actually get you off that list.
As a boring white dude… I think I’m gay? And also trans and pregnant?
“I just entered a rehab program for my drug addiction.” According to King of the Hill, that creates a fire-proof shield if the company is bigger than x people.
I know a guy who got fired a month after coming back from parental leave for twins.
HR doesn’t care if they’ve got some documented reason, which is they’ve already scheduled to firing you, they do.
A man coming back from parental leave doesn’t sound like a protected class to me, unlike being a pregnant woman who is protected by the Pregnancy Discrimination Act in the United States.
Also, I’m not saying it’s a surefire guarantee. The important part is you don’t have to be the fastest runner when the wolf is hungry, you just have to run faster than the guy next to you.
I think I would try to not waste any more energy on the place. But reality is I would waste energy being emotional about it for a while. Honestly there isn’t shit you can do as revenge that will make up for it. Other than maybe getting a much better job.
I heard ‘revenge is a lazy way to grieve’ recently and it’s really stuck with me. Your comment reminded me of that.
Now it will stick with me. That’s a pretty brilliant quote.
At least in ‘parts - if not all’ of EU, if you quit you get fuck all… Get sacked and you can claim unemployment…
Getting laid off pays out. Quitting only allows the employer to pay you fuck all, and let’s face it… Most will if they can save on their margins.
First, decide if you want to burn the bridge and if doing something weird could be betraying the colleague that gave you the information.
Then, being somewhat creative I think you could craft a fake resingment letter and show it to key workers but don’t sign it. Let them spill the beans. Depending on your contract it could mean big savings for the employer and it could mess up their strategy.
In any case, make sure to resolve any pending issues and get ready for the news.
I found out the day of a mass layoff and scheduled a surgery I needed for that morning. They are prohibited from laying you off on medical leave where i live.
Make uncomfortably continuous eye contact during the entire conversation. Make sure to minimize their personal space and smile unsettling too.
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