I’m asking because as a light-skinned male, I always use the standard Simpsons yellow. I don’t really see other light-skinned people using an emoji that matches their skin tone, but often do see people of color use them. Maybe white people don’t naturally realize a need to be explicit with emoji skin-tone or perhaps it’s seen as implicitly identifying or requesting white privilege.
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Is there a significance to using skin-tone emojis, and if so, what is it?
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Assuming there might be a racial movement attached to the first question, how does my use of emojis, both Simpsons yellow and light-skin, interact with or contribute to that?
Note: I am an autistic white Latino-American cis-gendered man that aims to be socially just.
Autistic text stim: blekh 😝 blekh 😝 blekh 😝 blekh 😝 blekh 😝 !!
Use what you want to. Let others use what they want to. Don’t overthink it.
Some people are thrilled with the fact that they can make their little online avatar closer to their reality, others don’t give a damn, because they don’t want to define themselves by their virtual presence. At the end of the day, though, they’re just pixels. What you say and how you treat people is much more important than whatever little +1 icon gets attached.
Based
Indeed
I can give you a real answer, because I asked my wife this exact question (she’s black and uses the skin tone closest to hers, I’m white and also just use yellow ones). She said it’s so rare to get to choose a digital representation that matches her skin tone that she just thinks it’s fun to get to do it for once.
Which is the same reason they make characters of different races, genders and sexualities in video games.
And people complain about these things “being forced on them” obviously without realizing that all those minorities are typically not represented in media. It’s such a minor thing that should be easy to ignore if it doesn’t apply to you, but when it does apply, feels good to know that someone was thinking about representing someone like you.
Does the skin tone modifier work on the peach emoji?
fuck legit laughed out loud at this
She said it’s so rare to get to choose a digital representation that matches her skin tone that she just thinks it’s fun to get to do it for once.
awww, that sounds so cute
Everyone simply saw the yellow ones as neutral toned. It’s a nice contrasting color to show the emotion and they have always done a good job representing everyone while serving their goal: to convey emotion in text.
The push for representation in emoji’s always struck me as weird since they already represented everyone. I rarely see people using them who aren’t a bit too focused on skin color in their day-to-day life.
That, and I think they trace a direct lineage back to the original Harvey Ross Ball smiley face, which was also yellow.
Me, I don’t particularly care about matching emoji skintones to myself. Rather, I’m much more annoyed that I can’t tune the 🏍️ emoji to match the color of my motorcycle. What a rip off.
I don’t feel represented. There isn’t a badass chrome and black cruiser emoji that makes a loud-ass rumble when you open the message, so I’m stuck with the fast and quiet Supersport 🏍.
Similarly, there’s no muscle car or hot hatch, just 🏎️🚗
Everyone simply saw the yellow ones as neutral toned.
I use those ones because they’re closer to the top of the list, therefore faster to scroll to when I’m choosing an emoji.
…since they already represented everyone.
Did they really? Because if that were the case we wouldn’t have different skin tones for emojis with people claiming they feel more represented by them or happy to use them because they have the same skin tone.
Yes, they did. The Canadian flag represents all Canadians. The BC province flag may represent me more closely, but it doesn’t stop the Canada flag from doing the same. While some people will be happy they can represent themselves more accurately to real life, it also makes for more exclusive use cases. I think there’s an argument to be made for keeping things simple and broadly usable.
There’s no significance because they are just fucking emojis.
Simpsons yellow
:D
The yellow should be the only one. I find it absolutely idiotic that they needed to include all different skin colors. I think that’s similar to my native language (Finnish) not having gender specific pronouns (hän = he/she) and then someone wanting to come up with ones. That’s “fixing” a problem that didn’t even exist in the first place.
Maybe you’d feel differently if your country wasn’t 90+% homogeneous with a light skin tone
There are no yellow skinned people where I live
It’s still pretty light if we’re considering the array of skin tones that are throughout humanity. If you weren’t Finnish, but instead African or Indian or South American for example, maybe you wouldn’t feel that yellow was representative of you and your people. Saying yellow is fine for everyone because you feel it’s fine isn’t taking into account the other billions of opinions in the world.
I quess we need a billion more variations of those emojis then. Lets keep paying more attention to the skin color of people. That seems like a great idea.
Something people living in almost entirely racially homogenous countries don’t often get is that you can’t help the problem of racism by trying to ignore it. The only way to correctly address racism is to realize that it exists, that people do have biases based on race & ethnicity, that there are groups that are underrepresented, and to actively work to provide more ways for people to represent themselves and their identity. The fact of the matter is that more representation, even in seemingly minor ways like more emojis which they can identify with more, helps normally underrepresented people feel more comfortable with themselves and their identity and helps alleviate societal pressures for them to mask their identity/culture. Even small changes play a part.
Acting “colorblind” just makes the problem of racism worse, as it means you’d be acting blind to obvious biases based on race/ethnicity… including people who are part of a certain in-group (or multiple in-groups) being overrepresented and people of an out-group being underrepresented or represented poorly/highly stereotypically. There is no morally just approach to discrimination which attempts to pay no attention to the traits being discriminated against.
It’s pride month, this is like one of the most relevant times of year to this… It may be easier to see from that point of view instead – what purpose does queer pride exist even in places where queer people are “legal”? Why are there pride flags and events and characters and such to represent LGBT people? A similar answer may be applicable to racial minorities.
I was raised in the part of the United States with likely the most racist/racially tense history in the nation, possibly one of the most in modern history (it was the heart of the Confederacy after all, one of the most significant historical events of our nation was burning down half the state and presenting my city to the president as a Christmas gift, I’m sure it’d make a top 10 list of the big racism or something), a place that still has extremely bad problems with racial discrimination, and I used to think the “colorblind” approach and avoiding race as much as possible was the solution to racism, but I’ve realized over time that this approach is a tool that racism uses to thrive – it makes people refuse to acknowledge the racism in the first place, and it causes people to be unable to find out what racism really means and how many minor things can have major affects on minority groups. It’s a very common approach by (often conservative/“libertarian”) people here who haven’t subscribed to the whole calling people racial slurs and committing hate crimes, but still can’t face the fact that racism is alive, everywhere around us, and that they’re likely participating in it or propogating it regularly despite not actively trying to be racist.
Basically… let them have their variously skin-colored emojis
Yeah you don’t get it and never will, that’s a shame
Ad hominem is not an argument to the contrary
No, but having a blindfold on doesn’t suddenly make it okay to punch someone
I feel this is like saying the Simpsons, and most of Springfield, aren’t supposed to be white because their skin is yellow.
It’s no surprise the default emoji color is so close to white skin, and it’s no surprise that some people feel a lack of representation by this.
But emoji’s are not derived from the Simpsons. They’re derived from the yellow smiley face ideogram that originated in the 1960s, it was designed by the artist Harvey Ball.
It’s yellow, not because it’s supposed to represent whiteness, but because the company colors of the State Mutual Life Assurance Company it was designed for were yellow and black, and because it feels sunny, bright and positive. It’s an anthropomorphized representation of the Sun, and does not represent a human with a specific skin color.
I neither said nor implied they were.
My point is that everyone, who is being honest at least, interprets the Simpsons as being white. Do you think they’re white?
Groeing chose yellow because it jumps out, but the characters are all supposed to be white. He could have chosen other colors that pop as well, but settled on yellow, for white people.
As I said, it’s no surprise the default emoji is closest to white skin. Even if that association comes from the Simpsons, emojis didn’t come out until decades after the Simpsons became a cultural mainstay.
My point is that everyone, who is being honest at least, interprets the Simpsons as being white. Do you think they’re white?
Yes, from the context it’s crystal clear that they’re white, they could be purple or green and they’d still be “white”, but I think it’s not relevant in a discussion about emojis.
As I said, it’s no surprise the default emoji is closest to white skin. Even if that association comes from the Simpsons, emojis didn’t come out until decades after the Simpsons became a cultural mainstay.
My point is that yellow smiley faces have been a cultural mainstay independent of the Simpsons, and that you grossly overestimate the worldwide cultural impact of the Simpsons. Most of the non-US world didn’t even get the Simpsons on TV until the mid 1990s, while smiley face t-shirts and pins were all the rage in the late 1980s and 1990s. Source: I wore them myself when I was a kid, and from your comment I’m guessing you weren’t born yet.
And decades? The Simpsons started in 1989, while the first instant messengers already had smiley face emoticons in the mid 90s.
Yes, I think they’re white but I think it’s not relevant in a discussion about emojis.
If we are talking about “why are there different skin tone emojis” it’s absolutely relevant to point out examples of how the alleged “neutral” emoji color is typically interpreted as a white skin tone.
Most of the non-US world didn’t even get the Simpsons on TV until the mid 1990s
The Simpsons came out in 88. You are saying most of the world got the Simpsons about half a decade later. I would say this proves the exact opposite of your point and that it is a huge world cultural phenomena. I’m shocked that I’m having the defend the Simpsons as one of the most important and impactful TV shows of all time.
And decades? The Simpsons started in 1989, while the first instant messengers already had smiley face emoticons in the mid 90s.
Emoticon != emoji. Characters don’t have skin tone colors. The first emojis didn’t come out until 1999. It wasn’t until mid 2000s when they gained popularity world wide, and it wasn’t until 2010 that they were accepted into unicode. It may be a fair point to claim that decades is too long, but it’s at least a decade.
Source: I wore them myself when I was a kid, and from your comment I’m guessing you weren’t born yet.
I was born in 1978. I remember the smiley face pins being a quick passing fad, not some mainstay. Certainly not even remotely on the level of the Simpsons. But regardless of how popular they are, it doesn’t detract from my point: the yellow is close to white and interpreted as white. It might even further drive home my point because (although it’s a bit circular here) probably part of the reason it gained such widespread financial success is because of it’s proximity to whiteness.
The Simpsons came out in 88. You are saying most of the world got the Simpsons about half a decade later. I would say this proves the exact opposite of your point and that it is a huge world cultural phenomena. I’m shocked that I’m having the defend the Simpsons as one of the most important and impactful TV shows of all time.
My point is, I didn’t even hear about the Simpsons until I was in Uni, which puts it around 1995-ish, but I sure knew what a yellow smiley was.
Emoticon != emoji. Characters don’t have skin tone colors. The first emojis didn’t come out until 1999
I meant smileys really, because that’s what they were initially called. Emojis is a more recent retroactive rebranding/appropriation of smileys by Apple when they launched the iphone.
Anyway ICQ had yellow smiley faces 1996-ish. AIM had them 1997-ish. Yahoo!Pager, later Yahoo!Messenger, had yellow smileys in 1998. And MSN definitely had them in 1999.
And then there’s friggin minesweeper that had a yellow smiley face all the way back in 1992:
I guess they all watched too much Simpsons?
I believe emoji was a Japanese creation, not a Apple creation: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji
My reference to the Simpsons has nothing to do with claiming this is where yellow emojis came from. My reference to the Simpsons is to point out that yellow skin tone is clearly adjacent to whiteness and this was well established before emojis caught widespread support in the mid/late aughts.
The fact that others also used yellow emojis financially successfully does not contradict the claim that it’s clearly adjacent to whiteness. If anything, it reinforces the claim.
interestingly, according to one study im half-remembering, people from countries with an ethnic majority see the Simpsons as part of their ethnicity. ie Asian people perceive The Simpsons as Asian.
I’d be curious to see that. I also find it hard to believe because every famous white person who makes a cameo on the show is also yellow.
Why would someone want to add gendered pronouns to a language
For a same reason they want to add emojis with different color skins? Stupidity, thoughtlessnes and virtue signaling.
Why would someone want to add gendered pronouns to a language
For adding specificity to lamguage. If you are talking about several people, the disambiguation can be handy.
We could have add pronouns that distinguish by size, or age, etc.
The really stupid feature of most indo-european is the arbitrary gendering of most nouns.
I like how Japanese does it, just call people by names and titles instead. 2nd person and 3rd pronouns exist but are only rarely used.
I really don’t care what colours of emojis exist. Use them or don’t use them, it’s not that deep.
Actually spending time thinking about coloured emojis is a little strange to me. If someone wants to use a black one, white one, or yellow one just let it be.
You sound like the kind of people that would have proclaimed it’s idiotic to give women rights, or let them vote, or give LGBTQ+ people rights of marriage or whatever. Change is inevitable and just because something has no bearing on your life doesn’t mean it has no bearing on anybodies life.
You sound like the kind of people that would have proclaimed it’s idiotic to give women rights, or let them vote, or give LGBTQ+ people rights of marriage or whatever.
You’re insane.
Care to expand on that?
I kinda like using emoji that are similar to my skintone. Not really making a statement, but somehow it feels a little more “me.” Hard to explain why it matters, it’s not like I won’t use the yellow ones if that’s all they have. Just kinda like “hehe, that’s a lil me in that message.”
My immediate opinion upon skin tone emoji being introduced was the mildest frustration: we’d had unified emoji for all Homo sapiens!
Then after seeing someone use their own skin tone for an emoji, I realized… oh, dang. They can feel represented now, potentially in a way they did not before.
I use yellow 100%. But not bad folks have options.
One neat thing is on Slack you may be able to see a hint of your company’s vibrant diversity if folks are reacting with all colors of emoji. Admittedly it could also look a little cluttered though maybe they are grouping reactions by symbol now.
On a related note, I’ve seen two people with very light (though non-white) skin tones use significantly darker skin tone emoji. One of those times I brought it up with someone else and they’re like “yeah what’s with that?!” Self image or eyesight related perhaps…
I just use the yellow one as I feel like they already represent everyone. I would definitely not feel any better about using a white emoji, I’d just feel like a racist trying to convince people that I’m better. I also like the yellow ones as it makes the standard to be anonymous about your skin colour. Or you could just use the outlined one for everything 🫥. Also the hole emoji is awesome 🕳️
And that was a way longer ramble then I intended 😀
And finally, good by 🖐️🖐🏻🖐🏼🖐🏽🖐🏾🖐🏿
P.S. Typing them all out the yellow one is also by far the most readeble. The white ones work very good on the black background I’m viewing this on but they probably just blend in to the background if your using a light theme. Maybe we should just type out all the variants? 🤷🤷🏻🤷🏼🤷🏽🤷🏾🤷🏿🤷♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏾♀️🤷🏿♀️🤷♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏿♂️
I’m a guy and default to use the female 🤷most of the time because that’s what my phone gives me on some apps
I think that one 🤷 is meant to be gender neutral. 🤷♀️ & 🤷♂️ are less ambiguous.
I 🤸 FUCKING 🧘 LOVE 🏊 MY 🙆 PERSON-EMOJIS
I honestly didn’t know the emojis were gendered until now.
cishet male, I use yellow for face emojis and yellow gender neutral people for physical language standins.
I want to represent the mood, not myself.
Exactly! I guess I grew up with MSN so I’m used to having few emojis with specific mood rather trying to match myself
Isn’t it weird that only the white people in The Simpsons are yellow? There’s other races that aren’t yellow. And the Simpson’s world mirrors the real word; a large number of yellow people migrated from Eastern Europe to settle in Springfield.
I guess it’s better than the Doug universe, with people being either Caucasian or blue or purple. Very weird choice of representation, Nickelodeon! 👀
Didn’t doug have a green dude too? And he was supposed to be white?
Matt Groening said he made the characters in the Simpsons yellow with oddly colored hair so that people would be confused by the colors and try to adjust the knobs on their TVs to fix it only to never get it quite right.
Wait until you hear about Sesame street!
#Simpsonsdidit
All my emojis have jaundice
White dude here. I use the white skin emojis, but honestly I think it’s just because I see my black and brown friends use their skin tones as a rule, and I feel like using the yellow tone is a bit weird when others are using the skin tone customization.
I’m not ashamed of my skin color or anything and the phone remembers my last tone selection so I don’t really see a reason to not use it.
There’s at least two things going on here:
A) a very mild case of the “white as default” part of white privilege. White people see themselves as default and use the default emoji.
2] the (often accurate) perception that white people who highlight their race unnecessarily do so out of racial pride, making self-use of a “white” emoji suspect.
I’m not saying these are the only two things at play, just the ones that occurr to me on first examinstion.
Ugh. What a load of horse shit. 1) People are lazy, 2) often don’t realize that they /can/ change them, 3) care to.
Then what is your explanation for black and brown people more likely to use the skin toned emojis, as has been mentioned so much in this thread? Are they less lazy than white people, or care more about it? If they care more about it, then why?
All true as well!
I just use the white as fuck guy because he has a green shirt (at least, on Android anyway) and I like green. Me being white as fuck is just a coincidence. 🤷🏻♂️
I’m on Android and that shirt is definitely blue 🤷🏻♀️
🤷🏻
The original emojis were white before the yellow and darker tones were added in 2015. Look up Katrina Parrott for the backstory. In short, before yellow was the default, White was the only option, and that’s kinda racist, and was only 9 years ago.
Yellow was simply a neutral addition to emojis that matched well with the existing yellow smiley face (which that French asshole keeps charging people for).
Thanks for questioning your assumptions. Further reading if you’re interested:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=parrot+skin+tone+emoji+&t=ffip&ia=web
Emojis evolved from the smileys we had in the late 90s, which were mostly yellow, but could be in various colours, like red for the angry face. Those smileys evolved from the text versions like these :) or :D
Historically the original emojis were ascii so the symbol had the color of text on the electronic device where typed
:-)
¯(ツ)/¯
:(
And so on
Those were called emoticons back in the day.
Same same
emoji became a thing because the Japanese wanted pictures aka kanji style representation of the ascii expressions. In any regards OG skin tone was average Japanese
Also the first gen iPhone emoji were a Japanese add on pack, iirc a keyboard addition. I had to install this add on on my iphone3g while I lived in Japan. Those emoji had average Japanese skin which white people just assumed was white. Only after those optional emoji got popular did apple make it standard, android copied, then people got worried about range of skin tone seeing as the Unicode was a global standard.
Thank you, I had no idea the first phone emoji characters were a third party add-on. That explains how they got there, since Apple is pretty notorious for not including people shaped things in their art.
Emoji is a failed concept anyway, because what you send is not necessary what the recipient gets. Why the app developers don’t get this, is one of the great mysteries of our century.
But when I do use them, I choose the yellow ones.
I would agree that emoji have basically failed. They confuse communication rather than facilitate it.
Why are there 😀 and 😃 ? “Grinning face” and “Grinning face with big eyes.” Why? There are so many of them with subtle details like this that A. choosing between them is a bigger chore than it should be and B. they have to be rendered at such a high DPI that “bro just increase your font size” becomes the bullshit workaround everyone tells you to do. I can read the English text just fine, but on most screens emoji are indistinct blobs.
Emoji are subject to all the variation that fonts are. You know how there are two lowercase “g” glyphs? There’s the one you probably do when handwriting which is an O and a J, and then there’s the loop over a loop that basically no one hand writes, it looks like the font Lemmy uses has that g. Well, emoji are like that. Like how they had to add “male dancer/female dancer” the the standard because Google rendered the “dancer” emoji as a lame disco man, Apple rendered it as a woman in a red dress.
They don’t get used the way we used to use emoticons. I don’t see people say things like "I can’t go to the park today ☹️ " I see people say "Hey guys 👬 I just got back from the store 🏪 with some groceries 🥫 and took a picture 📸 of my dog 🐕 " Which to me demonstrates a failure to grow past the Sesame Street book with 6 thick rigid pages reading level.
Finally, there are so many symbols that have alternate meanings that you just have to know. Like you can send white or tan or brown faces, but all eggplants are purple and all peaches are pink.
And yet eggplant and peach are obvious enough.
But when I do use them, I choose the yellow ones.
Scrutinizes profile pic emoji avatar
That one is from The Stick of Truth character editor
