Fairly successful strategy I’ve been using lately is to out-crazy the red team and feed em their own medicine. No one here needs to be told the libertarian party is just Far Right Lite™, but do you know their selling points? Cuz there is no chance in HELL I’ll be able to convince a Trumpanzee to vote for Biden, but I have been able to steer a handful of votes away from Trump and toward Chase Oliver - usually goes down like this: MAGAt will open the conversation by bitching about someone on the blue team - such as Hillary and her emails. I’ll AGREE with them, but lump her and Trump into the same category… “Idk how they get away with sending classified data on a private email server or printing it out and hauling boxes of it to their private residence. If I did hundredth of the crime Trump or Hillary committed, I’d spend the rest of my life in jail!”. Bitch about how both parties are doing the bare minimum just to stay in power etc; then start pitching 3rd as an alternative option.
‘Both sides’ em, and change their vote to “not trump” by pitching whichever 3rd most closely aligns with their impressionability (which is pretty much always the LP). Put the spoiler effect to good use.
And be weary of folks doing the same to you, especially here on Lemmy with all the ‘genocide Joe’ shit or encouraging apathy because of the shit debate.
And be weary of folks doing the same to you, especially here on Lemmy with all the ‘genocide Joe’ shit or encouraging apathy because of the shit debate.
I’m already quite weary of that!
(“Weary” means tired; you probably meant “wary” which means cautious)
I’m weary and wary of all this.
Came in to say this lol. Previous poster is right on my intent and correction, but god damn am I tired of this Nazi shit.
Don’t worry.
They say your time is much better spent guaranteeing people who already will vote blue show up to polls than trying to change the opinion of people who will vote red.
So that looks like asking people “do you have a plan to vote?” And perhaps in a less nosy phrasing: “When will you vote?” “How will you get there?”
People verbalizing a plan makes them more likely to follow through.
There are many places you can sign up to go canvassing, which is great. I would suggest in addition to and maybe before that, make a list of everyone you know and would feel comfortable talking to, and talk to them about voting. You will get much more mileage from existing relationships. (It’s like how sales differentiates a warm lead and a cold lead)
Once you’ve exhausted that list then every little bit still helps. I do think high density events like farmers markets, community gatherings, concerts, games, etc have better rate of contact than door to door.
I realize I just essentially said to tell people to vote while you were asking for something more. I wanted to share that because some people think that posting “vote” is the same as having a conversation about voting. Posting is not nearly as effective.
Another thing that might help is directly asking elected officials to intervene. Staffers for politicians keep a tally of calls and letters they receive for/against a given issue. So while your words may not move an elected, you and some friends can get them to act on an issue. If you have a group you can also request a meeting to discuss your issue which is even more effective. Politicians take notice of organized groups of constituents since that’s a block of votes for/against them and possible a group knocking doors for/against them.
The trouble is I don’t know what the ask is. There should be a specific action you’re demanding: “introduce this bill” “cosponsor this bill” “vote for/against this bill”. And it has to be something they’re able to do. I don’t know what that thing would be.
Pack the supreme court (but there’s not time for that or majority in the house).
Long term I think building true power means growing communities, joining unions and cooperatives. Most of us aren’t rich or powerful enough to be heard, which is why organizing is so important. None of this is fair or easy to do.
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They each served one term. Just compare their actions.
Biden rejoined the Paris Climate Agreement, revoked the Keystone Pipeline permit, created a 13 million acre federal petroleum reserve for Alaskan wildlife, greatly increased oil site lease cost, signed $7B in solar subsidies, invested $66B in passenger rail, enacted the Inflation Reduction act to support clean energy, increased energy efficiency standards on cars, appliances, and industry, created new permitting rules to streamline transmission lines, leveraged the NLRB for an FTC ruling that eliminated non-compete agreements, capped credit card late fees, reduced or outlawed junk fees in several industries, forgave billions in student debt from predatory loans, created the CHIPS Act to improve reliance on domestic technology, reenacted Net Neutrality, repealed Title 42, ended the Muslim Ban, reinstated the law prohibiting Israeli settlement on Palestinian territory, signed the Equality Act for LGBTQ+ rights, restored gay rights to beneficiaries, pardoned thousands of gay veterans from being convicted based on their sexual orientation, reenacted trans care anti-discrimination law, signed the Respect for Marriage Act, enabled unspecified gender on US Passports, rejoined WHO, banned medical debt from credit reports, currently rescheduling marijuana, is actively reducing drug costs with the American Rescue Plan Act…
Trump repealed 112 climate regulations, left the Paris Climate Agreement, disbanded the pandemic response team stalling national pandemic response, left the WHO, repealed trans care anti-discrimination law, repealed gay rights to beneficiaries, enacted Title 42 and the Muslim ban, repealed the law prohibiting Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory, repealed Net Neutrality, provided tax cuts to the wealthy that further widened our already exploitative wealth inequality, increased tariffs on goods costing the consumers, seated the conservatives in SCOTUS that repealed Roe v. Wade…
Those are great and work well if you want to convince people who are leaning Biden, but if you want to convince Trump leaners, you might tweak the wordings a little. No need to mention the dangerous parts of anti-women’s rights stuff (ie. wanting to forbid abortion, thereby making women’s deaths much more likely), because that won’t convince them. The language they understand of “climate” is not “good measures”, but “I’m getting taxed and now I can’t pay my bills”. You need to speak in terms of fear, because that is what they are: afraid. Speak of fear, that the person who makes their bills higher, is actually Trump. Don’t do so by directly starting with how Trump is bad. Instead, say, interesting you vote for him, question, question more, push, but not too far… and then once you got them hooked, question them by fears. Then don’t tell them what the answer is (unless if they ask or seem to want one), but let them think. Let them figure it out. This will have a better effect.
“Biden respects the Constitution, because he let Hunter be trialed. Biden criticised the new rule. This whereas Trump called the Constitutional courts, who were IN HIS favour, into question. With the new rule, Biden could assassinate Trump. Trump could assassinate YOU. And he’d get away with it. Under Trump’s judges, the President gets power to affect YOUR life. Do you think any president should be able to infringe on your personal life?”
And to (very religious) Christians and (xenophobes); “As Christians, it is our Duty to be Good Neighbours. Then the Word will spread better. But can we be good neighbours, if we deny people being neighbours in the first place? If we drive out native people from their homeland? If you are a Servant of God, should you then not choose to let Palestinians have their own state, without being colonised by foreigners? Only then will the Palestinian refugees stop protesting with violence, and go back to their homelands. This is not a matter of what I think, but of what a Good Christian should see: injustice done upon us, injustice done upon them, injustice upon us all. Let us thus gather together.”
Granted, I’m not familiar with all what happens in the USA, but perhaps those also help.
You’re right. This won’t convince a Trump voter to vote for Biden. They dismiss anything from “liberal news” which is every outlet besides the far-right. It’s been my experience that talking to a Trump supporter is kicking water uphill.
I wrote that to do what Biden’s campaign is failing to do, speak to all of his accomplishments next to Trump’s “accomplishments,” in hopes of informing the discouraged, disengaged, and disenfranchised.
What news source did your Trump people reject when you tried to show it to them?
Any. For example, my sister is locked in. She calls everything that doesn’t come from Fox, OAN, or Truth “corrupt liberal media.”
Haven’t you read their messaging? They are just perfectly innocent Democrat supporters who are super concerned about Biden’s chances in the election. Also they talk about Cornel West sometimes. For some reason they are not concerned about his chances in the election; they just really like what he has to say, and they’re going to vote for him. Flawless.
Become one of Biden’s close personal advisors and remind him of his obligation to protect the constitution from insurrectionists using official acts? Sorry I’m hella salty today.
Same here man, but it makes me think. Does Monica Lewinsky count as an official act?
Not exactly a class act 😉
I mean, if she’s good at her job…
He can’t. His only power over SCOTUS is nominating Justices in the event of a vacancy.
Congress can, but Republicans control the House.
They won’t control the House after a few official acts.
That only applies to criminal prosecution. You really think Biden is going to off a dozen or so House members?
"…Enemies foreign and domestic."
No, because he’s a coward and an appeaser.
Btw, your cope that it has to be the President specifically doing the acts is disagreed with by Sonya Sotomayor in her dissent where she states outright that this decision makes political assassination legal.
But you’d know the implications better than a SC Justice who works with the fascist members of the Court, right?
So Biden can officially assassinate the entire Republican side and the supreme Court and because he was president when he ordered it, it is legal?
That’s the dissent’s warning.
I guess the surviving members of the Court can reopen the question!
Yes, exactly. “They were insurrectionists bent on overthrowing our government, and it was a tough, but necessary, decision to protect the nation, which is my duty as President.”
That claim isn’t even entirely untrue.
But Biden himself came out and spoke about the ruling (paraphrasing) “we need presidents to use their power with caution and respect the (self imposed) limitations of it. I’ll continue to do just that. The next guy might not do so and that’s concerning.”
Just a big ol’ shrug from Biden… “I won’t do it, but he sure as hell will.”
Thanks Mr.Virtue… where is all that virtue when it comes to Palestinians?
No. It’s new, and I haven’t seen the full transcript. I’m repeating what I’ve read in the news. Do you have a link so I can learn more?
I understand how the President could theoretically order an assassination then pardon. That was a good point I read in another thread.
Transcripts are posted after rulings.
Or you could just read one of the many, many, many articles quoting her dissent.
Or watch a video quoting her.
You’re absolutely correct. This is the part that has been left out of every news article I’ve read, and is undoubtedly the most concerning:
And some Presidential conduct-for example, speaking to and on behalf of the American people, see Trump v. Hawaii, 585 U. S. 667, 701 (2018) - certainly can qualify as official even when not obviously connected to a particular constitutional or statutory provision. For those reasons, the immunity we have recognized extends to the “outer perimeter” of the President’s official responsibilities, covering actions so long as they are “not manifestly or palpably beyond [his] authority.”
So it’s not just acts committed by the President, but also ordered by the President.
It’s also vague enough that charges can get bounced around lower courts indefinitely.
Thank you again for the link. I didn’t see it when I first searched.
You could at least make it easy and post a link to the pdf
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a man can but dream…
He can’t. His only power over SCOTUS is nominating Justices in the event of a vacancy.
This is wrong. He can pack the courts RIGHT NOW. The Democratic party still holds the Senate. There is no requirement for there to only be nine justices.
Edit: This does require the house changing the number of justices. So the above is incorrect.
He cannot. The Republicans have House majority.
The Constitution does not stipulate the number of Supreme Court Justices; the number is set instead by Congress. There have been as few as six, but since 1869 there have been nine Justices, including one Chief Justice.
Oh, you are right about that.
With every House seat up for election, as well as 33 Senate seats, Democrats need to vote hard this fall for congressional majority if we want to put SCOTUS in check.
If Biden did that the House might impeach him. I mean, the surviving members of the House probably wouldn’t, but they theoretically could.
I suppose Biden could have him officially assassinated. That’s legal now.
Trump even shown the way, assassinating general Soleimani.
Volunteer to help get good local politicians elected.
Help a local charity.
The impact will be indirect, but inpactful.
Don’t have Biden run for reelection. Pick any other half decent human and they should win.
Too late for that
The American way. See a problem, wait until it’s too late to fix said problem, point fingers at a scapegoat for why the problem wasn’t solved earlier, and repeat.
Convention hasn’t happened yet. It literally isn’t too late for that.
The problem is that the act of swapping candidates will seem to be so entirely clueless that whoever steps up to the plate is bound to lose.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. No one will spoil their chances for 2028 by being a late entry now. The democratic party is hunkering down for 4 more years of Trump is suspect.
They are not bound to lose.
That is a statement that is being pushed, along with the whole Biden “Over prepared” thing as a talking point to push why we have to stick with a dementia-addled genocidal asshole.
It’s simply not a true statement. You’re stating an opinion as fact, and it’s misleading as shit.
The second someone else gets picked is the second that they (Whoever they are) have name recognition and people will consider that person.
I hope you’re right. I want you to be right. And I agree at this point the Democratic Party ought to try - damn, they’re losing anyway so they might as well try.
My worry is that an alternative candidate that is worth their salt AND want to run against Trump can’t be found. I hope I’m wrong.
The only clean way to do it is for Biden to step down put Kamala in by default and let anyone who wants to run in 2028 fight for the new VP spot. Most voters thought this was the plan anyways in 2020. That said Biden’s not going to step down so they aren’t doing shit.
The convention hasn’t even happened yet? 🤔
Long shot here: Donate to charities which help people in need in predominantly Trump held districts.
Less of a long shot: Volunteer for organizations like Vote Forward to try to reach folks. We’re all human beings at the end of the day, and appealing to people can’t hurt.
I’m very curious how giving money to Trump supporters would hurt Trump? Some people are giving their last dollar to Trump and depend in charity at this point. Wouldn’t throwing money at local charities just further enable them?
turning off voters is the biggest reason why we don’t vote imo in this environment and there’s nothing you can do about shitty choices that the democrats will give us; but there’s things you can do to overcome the other institutional part of it; aka gerrymandering:
setup free voting ride shares with free filling snacks in gerrymandered states that will pick each person up from home; drop them off at their polling station; pick them up from there; and then drop them off at home w/o having to wait for everyone to finish voting. the lines are VERY long and take hours in heavily gerrymandered places like houston texas and people hate voting already; so making them wait or skip dinner to vote is a non-starter.
setup free voting phone number and/or website that will help register you to vote (not just tell you what you need to do) on your behalf and include the option to mail you a pre-filled envelope and stamp if paper registration is required. advertise it HEAVILY on all forms of media everywhere and make it clear it’s not from the government.
then, assign a case worker to every client to ensure that the registration was completed and followup on the problems that gerrymandered places usually create to suppress votes. also get lawyers or people familiar with election laws to file inquiries on each voter’s behalf each time a gerrymandered place manages to find a reason to disqualify a voter or an employer refuses to let them off to vote and use that case worker to manage it.
expect it to fail the first few times because people hate talking about politics so they won’t listen for the first few cycles.
The vast majority of Americans both already know how they feel about Trump and Biden and live in a solidly red or blue state. If you do want to focus on Biden, volunteer with phone banking or canvassing so that your efforts are directed to where they’ll actually matter and be organized in line with their messaging. Personally, I’d say you’re better off focusing on local races where you have more of an opportunity to come at it from a different angle and cut through people’s fortified positions. And as another user said, focus on mobilization, it’s easier to get someone who already agrees with you to register and make a plan than to convince someone to change their whole worldview.
There are also strategies outside of electoralism, such as protests and counter-protests. You can join an organization and form tactics and strategies to subvert the right’s actions, and engage with direct action to build trust and community that could be important in the future. Form strategies while being realistic about your goals and capabilities and coordinate with others.
Who’s really going to be swayed by a phone bank? My democratic rep keeps robocalling me and sending text messages and I honestly find it more annoying than anything. This does not work in 2024.
If someone canvassing (or a potential solicitor) knocks on my door I’m either not going to answer it or ask them to leave because I’m busy and don’t want my time taken up.
These are totally ineffective strategies IMO.
There are a few types of people that get targeted based on a voter profile, if my tiny amount of phone banking experience matches. There are the people who are probably going to vote for your party, but need a reminder because they are disengaged. Then there are swing voters that actually are on the fence and use a little information about your candidate. Like, most people don’t know much about Biden’s infrastructure package, so list off some projects nearby.
Fair, and people in swing states get inundated with ads as it is. Mostly I’d say it’s more useful for mobilization than persuasion, like if you get a text reminding you when voting day is maybe someone makes it when they wouldn’t have otherwise.
Ideally, volunteers could mean quality over quantity, less automated spam asking for money and instead actual humans responding to concerns and answering questions. Even more ideally, that could be paired with voters’ concerns being elevated and the party actually responding to them. The goal is to improve the quality of the campaign’s voter outreach, in whatever form that outreach takes.
I’m not a fan of Biden myself but I still think it’s worth discussing general electoral strategies.
If your state allows it, set up a table and register people to vote
Volunteer to phone bank
I hear the French had good luck with guillotines.
I could make a few effective suggestions, but I don’t want to end up on a list. My life sucks enough without getting in trouble for a joke.
Call your democratic politicians (if you have any) Governor/Senators/House Rep and advocate for pressure for Biden to step down gracefully from the ticket… then prepare to vote for Biden in November because that’s a hell of a longshot.
If you’re talking to people on the fence about voting or not focus more on Biden’s policy achievements instead of Trump being a boogie man. Anyone liberal who is considering sitting out this election has already internally decided that Trump is an acceptable outcome for trying to change the two party system or to avoid dirtying their hands voting for Biden to continue genocide - pushing against people’s fervently held beliefs is a waste of energy… the media really hasn’t put much attention on things that Biden has accomplished so talking those things up won’t make people defensive - you never want to directly challenge someone’s fervently held beliefs because it is extremely difficult to shift those.
I’m reading this and having flashbacks to me campaigning for Hillary in 2016 and agreeing with people on doorsteps: yeah she’s not great but she’s much better than the alternative.
I remember canvassing for Obama and really being into it
