I believe it was purely for reasons of expansion. I don’t know exactly what our response should have been, but we need to at least acknowledge that Ukraine is defending their sovereignty and Putin/Russia are the aggressors. We should support them at least minimally.
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Only brain dead tankies would try to change your view. Good luck anyway.
Not going to disagree with you there. I just want to hilight the fact that the totalitarian nature of russia means that they don’t need a justification, as putin is de facto a dictator and can decide anything he wants. So any claims of “justification” can be ignored as propaganda, and you can see this in the fact that this “justification” is in constant flux. It started with protecting Donbass, then denazification, via stopping a dirty bomb, and I think they’re going with antiterror nowadays.
Same goes for threats coming from their propaganda apparatus about “consequences” regarding “crossing red lines”. No justification is needed. There’s nothing preventing them from making good on their threats tomorrow if they so wanted to.
The only thing I disagree with is the last sentence. We should support majorly as the alternative, Ukraine actually losing, is going to potentially cost us so much more.
If China knows we will send a little here and there, then abbandon it once it starts tickling our well filled wallets, it could very well motivate a hostile takeover of Taiwan. That would absolutely shock our way of life as practically all advanced silicone is produced there.
That, and both China and Russia both not being particulary well known for their humane treatment of political and ideological enemies…
And if it worked for both of them, why would they stop there?
I do agree with you. I don’t like the fact that we are the ones with all of the weapons and military might, but this does seem like a good exception. If we have these weapons and want to play the worlds policeman this seems like a place to use those weapons.
As developed countries that previously engaged in imperialism and the massive human suffering that caused, how can our consciences allow modern imperialism without major effort to stop it?
It’s going to boil down to your definition of “justified”.
In my experience, almost all confrontations between nations comes down to resources or access to resources. In this case, I read an opinion article suggesting that Russia wanted access to the Black Sea for access to or less expensive transport of oil. I also read that Russia was displeased with Ukraine’s strenghtening alignment with the USA.
Another perspective is that Ukraine used to be part of the USSR and Putin, whose popularity was waning, wanted to “make Russia great again” by reuniting the USSR under Russia control.
Back to my original point, was it “justified”? Not in my opinion, but in the minds of some Russians, Ukraine is acting very “un-Russian” and so they must be put in their place or taught a lesson.
Another observation of mine is that countries continue to behave like toddlers in the sandbox. They don’t talk out their differences, they take the toy that they want, regardless of who has it and if things don’t go their way, they throw sand.
Yes, I do believe they feel justified
Russia wanted access to the Black Sea for access to or less expensive transport of oil.
Controlling Crimea gives them a much better port than anything else around there, and a big naval base they developed around it.
Russia was displeased with Ukraine’s strenghtening alignment with the USA
A lot of the reasoning behind the Warsaw Pact back in Cold War days was a buffer zone. If WWIII did happen, they wanted to keep it far from their territory. Same deal. Now they imagine NATO right up on their border and that buffer zone is looking like a really good idea. In this scenario, they also have no reason to care whether that part of Ukraine is a bombed out wasteland
Expansion is a perfectly valid reason to go to war historically.
I won’t argue against the idea of sending aid to Ukraine on principle, but I will just mention a few considerations:
- Ukraine relies on conscription. Men are being arrested off the street to join the front lines. Millions of men have fled the country, and are now being hunted down in the places they fled to src. In supporting Ukraine’s military, the US and EU allies are inadvertently supporting military slavery.
- The Ukrainian government has a corruption issue, and it is likely that a lot of the aid being sent is being embezzled. src 1 src 2
Point 1 could be rectified by conditioning aid on reversing the draft. Point 2 may be more difficult to address.
Of course Russia uses conscription as well. In fact don’t most countries that go to war use conscription? I don’t like it but, if we can stop it here then the next country that Russia might invade wouldn’t have to draft soldiers.
I mean it doesn’t seem like too big an ask to require the country you’re arming not to do slavery. If they want the weapons that badly I’m sure it will work.
I agree with you but I do not think it is that simple. For instance, Putin/Russia are the aggressors but Biden/USA are too. The US has supported a proxy-war at the expense of the Ukrainian people. These people are not fighting for sovereignty on their own accord. They are being conscripted, forced against their will, having their bank accounts frozen and being kidnapped off the streets to fight for their “sovereignty”. So, when you say we should support them how should we support them? If your answer is to have peace talks I would agree but if it’s in military aid I disagree. This war is hurting the people of Ukraine, forcing many into a war they do not want to fight in. The US have been the aggressors for a long time, they are doing it now. But the US media says day after day that this war is for “the good of Ukraine”, it’s very 1984, all in all. Russia and the US are both equally to blame, this is their war, Ukraine just happens to be in the middle of it.
The US did not start this war. Putin/Russia started this war by an unprovoked attacks on Ukraine. It is a Ukrainian decision for conscription, the US and Europe are just helping arm and train them.
Any peace deal requires a return of Ukrainian lands to Ukraine because the last time Ukraine accepted the loss of Crimea, Putin reneged on his word and attacked again.
It is my understanding that Ukraine has been willing to talk about peace but not willing to give up any part of their country. Giving in to a demand like that seems like giving the mugger exactly what they wanted. IDK. What does Russia really have to negotiate with other than taking some of Ukraine’s freedom?
When my ex girlfriend broke up with me I saw her talking to my old enemy mark. What was I supposed to do? I had to start beating her. It was marks fault, he made me do it. He’s equally at fault here. Now I just want to cut off her fingers. This would be over and she’d stop fighting me if mark just would stop trying to help her up. I need her to give me some part of her, and promise to never talk to mark or any of his friends ever again. This is mark’s fault as much as it is mine. If he didn’t help her she’d have given up a part of her body to me and and agreed to never talk to anyone without my approval again. Otherwise she will suffer. Christ that is sick.
