Fuck all imperialist and hierarchical power structures. Fuck colonialism and fuck the police. Fuck fascists and the libs that enable them.
Xi Jinping is a fascist, and I don’t think it was liberals that enabled him
Xi’s also an imperialist and implemented a hierarchical government. Nothing I said was paradoxical. Fuck 'em all.
What liberals enabled Xi??
Did I say that all authoritarians are enabled by liberals? What agenda are you trying to push by misconstruing my words? Like seriously what point are you trying to reach here?
fuck fascists and the liberals who enable them.
I think it was this part where you link fascists to liberal enablers.
But that =/= “every fascist is and always has been enabled by liberals.”
They’re saying that it’s very common for liberals to side with a rising fascist over the left in a misguided attempt to maintain the status quo. They’d typically rather move to the right instead of giving any quarter to the left, because the left wants to upend the structures of oppression, while the right wants to bolster them—while scapegoating an out-group.
Look at what macron is doing in France right now. Moving to the right to build a coalition with them to go against the majority left coalition that won the election.
I didn’t stutter. Fuck every liberal enabling the rise of fascism.
Ah I see. Your point would have been clearer if it was “ fuck the fascists and
theany liberals who enable them”
Nixon
The only country actually running over people with tanks is Israel and does it with the unconditional support of the US
Liberals as always don’t see Arabs as people. Don’t you dare come asking for our votes.
Do Arabs get to vote in the US?
Or if you mean Arabs that chose to go live in the US, I don’t think they care too much about a country that, well, murdered all the natives
Yes, Arab Americans do and are enough to swing elections in Michigan and a few other states
In Michigan, for example, Biden won in 2020 by 154,000 votes. Census estimates put the state’s Arab American population around at least 278,000.
Biden won Arizona by 10,500 votes. The Arab American population in the Grand Canyon State is estimated to be 60,000.
Biden took Georgia by 11,800 votes. The Arab American population there is at least 57,000.
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/29/arab-american-voter-defections-biden-2024
Hear fuckin hear!
How many billionaires before a country is a liberal shit-hole?
600?
675?
Idk man, one seems like too many to me.
China’s around 695, guessing the threshold is 700. That’s when the tankies will turn on it for sure.
Here here
Punk is not dead
‘The Libs,’ LOL!!!
From a anon American, it’s hilarious seeing the hick come out. ‘the Libs hur durrr.’
Hahaha that shits always funny
You’re replying to a leftist, not a conservative “hick.”
And by “liberal” you mean anyone who dares criticise Daddy Putin and Supreme Leader Xi, amirite?
Dude my very first sentence was “Fuck all imperialist and hierarchical power structures.” How can you think that I support China or Russia?
Uh oh, you’ve activated the libs. Now they’ll make wild assumptions and other fabrications instead of actually addressing anything you’ve said.
Uh oh, you’ve activated the
libstankies. Now they’ll make wild assumptions and other fabrications instead of actually addressing anything you’ve said.FTFY, lib
You seem to be under the impression that liberals have a logically and ethically consistent belief structure.
The realization that liberals are unscratched fascists is a tough one, but you are one of the few intelligent folks able to recognize it… it’s a curse.
you’re such an online edgelord that you’re fighting straw men of your own creation. sign off, your family probably misses you.
Oops. Posted on tankie news again. Always forget to check.
Edit: actually, i retract that. I got mixed up with another thread.
Your use of tankie is exactly like the conservative use of woke. You’re not even close to superior to those you mock. Hopefully one day you realize that and actually apply that human brain of yours.
Just to be clear, you don’t think I should be against liberals enabling fascism? You don’t see anything wrong with the slow march to the far right that’s happening in so many parts of the world recently?
The irony of a liberal calling an anarchist authoritarian… Liberals are simps for an authoritarian economic system
I’m just really annoyed by “liberal” constantly being equated with “fascist enabler” round here. If anyone calls themselves a liberal while supporting fascists, they’re just fascists in disguise. While there are people like that, that’s not what liberalism means, in fact, it’s quite the opposite.
It’s a language issue. You’re likely from the United States, where liberal is used to suggest an adherent to classical liberalism or progressivism. Most of the rest of the English speaking world means neoliberal, as in an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and the reduction of government spending.
I’m fortunately not from the US. But you’re right. A lot of people equate liberal with neoliberal or libertarian. Which is a real bummer.
Please, enlighten me about what you think liberalism means. In my view (as an anarchist) liberalism is at best ineffective at preventing fascism from taking over. It enables colonialism and imperialism, and offers no solution to the horrors of capitalism. Liberal ideology is one of state violence and compromise with literal fascists.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various and often mutually warring views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.
- Wikipedia
focusing on voting as the only allowed political action, supporting capitalism, valuing order over justice…
Dude, liberals literally helped Hitler become Reichskanzler.
For anyone not familiar, that was in no small part thanks to Paul von Hindenburg. If only he had instead gone the way of the zeppelin named after him.
So many of them on Lemmy lol
They clearly wrote fuck hierarchical powers. Fuck any supreme leader.
They think liberal is the same as neoliberal
imperialism is the subjugation of one country for the benefit of the first. DPRK is not imperialist (how could it be under UN sanctions), PRC is not imperialist, USSR was not imperialist.
Communists critically support the DPRK, the USSR, and the PCR, progressive liberals uncritically support Obama, Biden, conservative liberals uncritically support Trump, Bush, etc
read lenin.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/
Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?
It won’t do!
It won’t do!
You must investigate!
You must not talk nonsense!
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-6/mswv6_11.htm
The instance you use is named after an Ikea plush. I will not debate you.
The South China Sea, Poland and most of eastern Europe would like a word…
Edit: Oh, and Tibet, Taiwan, etc…
USSR was not imperialist.
Countries like Estonia might disagree with you there, buddy.
Look dude I’ve worked with many MLs and MLMs. I’ve read some of both Lenin and Mao’s works. I think the recent rhetoric of calling communists fascist is wholely harmful to the left and I don’t participate in it. I never called the DPRK imperialist for obvious reasons. I didn’t even call the PRC imperialist because I do recognize that western media is not a reliable source on the matter. I recognize my own ignorance in these matters and don’t take part in uncritically decrying post-revolution communist states.
We disagree on the way a just society should be structured, or the methods of achieving that end. I consider authoritarianism and unjust hierarchies as a problem of both capitalism and state communism, but as long as my viewpoints can be heard and addressed, I personally don’t have issue with MLs and MLMs. The atrocities of capitalism far outweigh the failures of established communist states.
Communism is neither left nor right. It is just a construct of governance. While it was originally promoted by leftists, it can be either left or right. Some communists are conservative and/or fascist (ex. China).
Communism is neither left nor right.
The Left/Right divide is about property. Should it be collectivized, or individually owned and traded, ie Socialism vs Capitalism. Communism, therefore, must be left-wing.
It is just a construct of governance.
Yes and no. Communism is also economic in nature.
While it was originally promoted by leftists, it can be either left or right.
You cannot have Right-Wing Communists.
Some communists are conservative and/or fascist (ex. China).
The PRC is socially conservative, yes. Economically, it is Socialist, though certainly not yet Lower-Stage Communist. This does not make China “fascist” or right-wing. It is a socially reactionary, economicaly progressive state.
‘The instance you use is named after an Ikea plush. I will not debate you.’
This JK Rowling?
I think you proved their point. Also, your ad hominem attack (or ad urbem attack) could be construed as transphobic.
Lmao
These “tankies” are conservative right-wing shitbag trolls trying to convince the normal people that supporting oppression and dictators is somehow “left-wing”. Do not fall for their conservative bullshit.
Just like any other conservative, every word they utter is deception or manipulation. Tankies are conservative trolls through and through.
Lemmy was originally built by and for tankies, so this is completely unsurprising. The .ml TLD on the original instance isn’t a coincidence.
Lemmygrad was literally made to be an even more mask off .ml
Weird they made a decentralized platform for one single group.
They made it for themselves but let us set up instances outside of their control due to their morals that software should be open for all. Again proving the best open source software comes from scratching a personal itch.
Of course it’s OUR SOFTWARE
(cue soviet anthem)
/s
Of course it’s OUR SOFTWARE
(cue soviet anthem)
Which one? I choose The Internationale.
Off-topic, but the Starlight Glimmer art is on the point so well.
Starlight is one of the best representations of the Tankie IMO.
And the writers had the guts to pull it off in a show meant for a 5yo.
That’s impressive honestly.
Kinda. S5 GlimGlam? Yes. S6? Nah.
The problem was childhood-trauma-induced fake-smiles-forcing cutiemark-taking with propaganda. Remove it and what remains isn’t bad. Doesn’t seem to be much different from ideology of other places.
As an example from first season there is Winter Wrap-up, which is basically annual subbotnik.
That’s true, now that I think about it. But I still think the writers nailed the mindset in S5.
The final battle between Starlight and Twilight was epic for the lack of a better word.
How authoritarian of them
It was never closed to non-tankies, but it wasn’t very welcoming. I had an account on .ml early on and most of the time I got hammered with downvotes, despite having opinions that I’d describe as being on the left edge of liberalism.
and most of the time I got hammered with downvotes
Downvotes are federated.
Yeah but this was 3 years ago, Lemmy was basically only the .ml instance at that time.
To be clear, the left edge of liberalism is bernie sanders. Is that what youre saying?
Meh, I’d say Bernie is either a social democrat or a reformist socialist who hides his power level.
He’s a self described democratic socialist
Correct, but I’m pretty sure he said he doesn’t want to completely socialize the economy.
By US standards maybe, but I’m to the left of that.
Some members of LDPR(e.g. Furgal) seem to be more left than Bernie. And LDPR is former LDPSU - first right-wing party of USSR. Or some members of Union of Right Forces.
Not corporate neofeudalist is better than corporate neofeudalist, which is improvement for US. But I can’t say he is on edge even of liberalism.
I can see the decentralized platform as a communist parallel. I don’t, however, understand the fanaticism for the murdery shit show dictatorship that was Russia/China though.
the murdery shit show dictatorship that was Russia/China
You have been heavily propagandized about these countries. They were not as bad as you think they were and in fact had many elements where they were plainly superior to their contemporaries. On balance, these countries were far better to their citizens than equivalent capitalist countries, and far less damaging to the world at large than the American Empire has been, even when you take into account their mistakes.
And that’s okay. Most of them stay to their own instance and don’t come over and bother us normal people. Just ignore the crazies and move on
Communism and conservatism are not mutually exclusive. Conservative communism involves dictators and oppression. That’s how that weird nonsense happened.
It’s a pretty standard take on the commie side that stuff like colonialism and American slavery are pretty much the capitalist equivalent of the communist mass deaths, so I think their position is that everyone’s a hypocrite who has to support a government committing some kind of mass murder (in the modern day, America’s mass murder in this lens is its alliance with Israel). Since Americans won’t admit their government’s atrocities (even though a lot of them do call out the US, but that’s not how they see it), why should they admit the atrocities of the USSR?
It’s almost like the dishonest nature is built into their every move.
CTH has been eradicated from every platform it’s arisen on, then they built Lemmy.
CTH didn’t build Lemmy, they forked it and then merged it back a few years later.
That is enlightening and not very surprising.
I had one of these fucks try to tell me that North Korea is very democratic.
hexbear has entered the chat
lemmygrad
lemmy.ml too increasingly
I’m seeing more and more tankies migrate to lemmy.world, because they don’t do anything against them, but lemmy.world is also much less likely to get defederated by other instances. Fuck big, centralized instances. People should move to smaller, niche servers like db0, blahaj.zone, beehaw, etc.
my alt is on blahaj and I really enjoy the local stuff there but its so slow for me sometimes :/
Beehaw has explicitly stated that they do not want more people to join, they want to maintain it as a micro-server, by the way.
In general, I do think joining smaller servers is a good idea.
It’s weird that Mao, Sun Yat Sen, and Chiang Kai Shek, were all part of the same pro-democracy party early on in China’s civil war.
Mao won the war, Sun Yat Sen got out of there, Chiang Kai Shek was pushed out and became dictator of Taiwan.
China is weird.
Also weird is that one guy caused most of the deaths from famine in both the USSR and China: A conman named Trofim Lysenko, who was lying about having a new science of agriculture… He was bury seeds way further than they could handle then faking his results to keep his job… Killed like, 30 million people who were ordered to take up his techniques.
About China, you know what they say, it’s easier to be the opposition than to actually govern. Many of those who govern end up being corrupt or incompetent or both.
Who knows if mainland China under ROC would have been better. People say that will be the case when we look at Taiwan. But Taiwan suffered from thirty years of so-called White Terror and Taiwan eventually democratising is arguably pure luck due to a man whose name escapes me.
The trajectory of history is never predictable. There are far too many factors to consider; factors which are themselves caused by chain reactions of previous factors and events, which themselves are influenced by other previous events.
Lee Teng-Hui is the man that helped Taiwan transition into a democracy.
Chiang Kai Shek already oversaw a China beset with hyperinflation, pervasive corruption, and famine. That, too, is history.
It’s why the Maoists were able to launch a popular revolution in the first place. Chinese people had literally nothing to lose but their chains.
Chiang had to work with various warlords and bore most of the fight against the Japanese, while Mao gathered strength and let ROC to bleed itself. Even if ROC won and the CCP got destroyed, we don’t know if factionalism and warlord-ism will emerge since ROC had been weakened severely. Or, in another alternative time, Chiang and KMT had somehow pulled a miracle, and somehow made the entirety of China industrialised as quickly as post-war Japan and never had to resort to dictatorship and hence had always been democratic after World War 2.
If I remember it correctly, in China Mao ordered sparrow to be killed en masse because they supposedly ate the grain: turns out that what they ate were the pests that attacked the plants.
95% correct, the sparrows were also eating the grain, but removing the natural predator to the far worse pests resulted in far worse famine due to an explosion in population of pests. This was one of the factors that resulted in Mao losing influence in the party over time.
China is weird
Is it? There are plenty of examples of smaller factions joining forces to overthrow a common enemy, who later battled it out amongst themselves.
This is bidens fault
/S cause lemmy
That’s the average lemmy.ml user
heck you don’t even have to go that far. the second picture can be pretty much every republican president whos held office. When was the last ware we started happen while a dem president was in office?
Israel’s invasion of Gaza could be considered a proxy war
Howdy, Stretch!
It isn’t as much of a stretch as that created by Israel sticking their hands far up U.S. govt’s ass.
Wait, so the US is the puppet? Is the US fighting Israel’s proxy war? Do you people even know what you’re saying when you say stuff like this?
Of course not! US bad it’s as simple as that.
It is a stretch, but it’s also a proxy war funded by the US that escalated several fold under Biden
You’re gonna pop a shoulder soon!
A proxy war implies they’re using another nation to fight an enemy. Which enemy are they fighting? Palestine is not an enemy or threat to the US.
You could consider Ukraine as potentially a proxy war, but you’d have to be pretty stupid or pretty mislead to think Gaza is.
Source?
What do you mean “Source?” Are you asking for a source that Israel invaded Gaza? A source that the US funded it? A source that it escalated during Biden’s presidency?
They’re “stinkyonions”.
They’re asking for sauce.Are you implying that on a quiet morning somewhere around last October, Biden gave Bibi a call and ordered him to escalate?
I don’t see how. you would need to consider any military action by any ally then as a proxy war for any nation. So it would be a proxy ware for most of europe to and asia and a good part of both africa and the americas.
Also Ukraine
Operation Prosperity Guardian, started by Joe. That took me about 10 seconds.
More like a defense of merchant ships attacked by houthis.
I wouldn’t call that a “war started by Joe Biden”.
Well Wikipedia considers it a war, I bet the poor mother fuckers that died think so too, but that list has 7 other conflicts that Obama started, weirdly there isn’t a single one by the ultimate mega hitler everyone is talking about.
Megahitler closed a “don’t shoot while I’m running away” deal with the Taliban that Biden had to mop up, now you can hate on Sleepy Joe as much as you want, but that is Drumpf’s doing.
Another day, another comment I’ll block for stupidity.
The 10 people who died in the defense of merchant ship from houthis is totally comparable to the tens of thousands of homeless people, protestors, victims of police violence, inability to pay for medical care, resulting from Trump era policies, not to mention what banning abortion will do.
I’m not trying to defend Trump, I’m just saying that the proposition that all Democrats are bloodless pacifists is completely removed from reality.
Megahitler is currently focused on the enemy within, after that is exhausted they will need to start on the enemy without.
Oh well if Wikipedia says it is then I guess we have no choice. Who invented the toaster again?
The US hasn’t declared war since WW2. Wikipedia will tell you that, too.
You don’t have to declare war for it to be a war. The US has carried out plenty of wars since WW2.
Sorry for your loss.
What
ultimate mega hitler
If Trump wins and he starts marching the Latino and queer people into camps like in the threats his people are making, I want you to remember that you said this.
Absolute lunacy. You really believe this?
Do I really believe that they’ll do what they’re threatening to do when they get into power if they get into power?
Yes, I do. Why shouldn’t I? Why would I even want that risk?
There’s already an ongoing transgender genocide in the U.S. caused in great part by Republicans. Why would I want to make that worse?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_genocide#United_States
Show me where anyone is threatening internment camps for gay people.
The Latino thing is going to be the exact same thing that all 4 of the last sitting presidents did, but you’re going to act like it’s worse when someone red is in charge.
Link?
Go make another account, this one is getting blocked en masse.
Good, I’d rather not talk to people who settle their differences of opinion by stamping their feet and plugging their ears.
Ansar Allah could just take Iran’s fist out of their ass. But they seem to love being front line puppets.
I have little hope you’ll grab the concept, but
Did that ‘war’ start with the Houthis firing missiles, or them being fired upon?
Oooooh, this thread’ll let my blocklist feast for days as the Tankies come out to whatabbout
Edit: Man yall are too kind! Thank you for helping me make Lemmy a more intelligent place! <3
it’s an honor getting to avoid shitlibs; block me too.
Oooh, block me too!
Hell yeah brother!
Add me! I don’t see a single decent leader in this meme, but governance/economic debate by mascot is counterproductive.
Done!
Bro tankie doesnt even mean anything anymore, what are you actually saying?
You said in another thread that you wished Russia had succeeded in assassinating a German arms manufacturer.
I think it means something in your case.
Oh yeah. That’d be stupid. Besides billionaires, sadly arms manufacturers are the one group you don’t mess with.
I wish we had let them succeed. Russia can help out America and themselves at the same time
In context it doesn’t sound as stupid. Like if someone dropping bunker-penertating bomb and killing Putin will help both Russia and Ukraine. Despite my wishing for Putin rather being sent to Hauge or Russian prison, any option is better than Putin continuing war.
And there are other things that better not exist for entire world like all those spying and censorship agencies like FSB, RKN, FBI, NSA.
Tankies
omg so true, esp on the OG Lemmy instance, where even the admins/creators of Lemmy on there are tankies.
That feeling when you get banned for mentioning Russian war crimes in Ukraine.
The pain of having to walk on eggshells just in case some admins decide to have a power mod day.
Ate an instance wide ban for saying democratic republics are, by definition, a form of democracy 🤷♂️
Russia isn’t even leftist? It’s oil oligarchy and kleptocracy. They love authoritarianism, they don’t give a shit about economics.
Vatniks don’t care about anything but Russian nationalism.
Probably should have said Putinism war crimes instead. Everyone would agree to this.
You mean lemmy.ml?
Yes
Now, I don’t like violence. But even I can see that there’s a difference between violence waged for imperialism and violence waged against imperialism.
And you can see the difference too. That’s why Obama and Biden always say that their wars are being waged “for freedom”. That’s why you accept the violence of historical revolutions like the American Revolution.
The problem is, Obama and Biden are lying when they say their wars are for freedom. Their wars are for profit and control.
People here claiming it’s not the case are just wrong. I’ve been banned from multiple instances and had posts deleted by these bozos. Actually authoritarians lol
I can agree with the text while being against the authoritarians pictured.
I just hope people don’t think that everyone complaining about US imperialism is somehow fine with Russian or Chinese actions of the same hue.
The US as least has a flawed democracy.
I’d upvote the meme if it wasn’t also controversial to criticize all war criminals, including both those at the top and the bottom.
Edit: For a source, see people in this thread rushing to argue and feel called out when someone criticizes “all forms of imperialism”, including the Western ones.
“Let’s criticise everything.”
I mean there is a difference, and hearing “let’s criticise joe biden” after hearing about russia killing half a million people gets daunting in the long run. It feels like a new form of whataboutism.
Sure we should criticise all bad things, but I don’t really feel we are not criticising the west, quite the opposite. China, NK, Iran (Russia starts to get some, but not enough IMO) not so much.
What about Morocco? Mauretania, Kirgizistan or Libya? Or should we only have criticism for modern societies?
I’m open for discussion of course.
The usa is a giant military empire that literally indoctrinates children with flag swearing cultism stuff. Living in a world dominated by those fucks, who actively undermine the rules based order and refuse to rattify critical treaties/sabotage other treaties (e.g. sea floor resource stuff) is extremely stressful.
In my country, allegedly a democracy, the usa forced our government to secretly sign a trade deal that lets US companies sue our government… directly undermining sovereignty.
It sucks dude, we all fucking hate the usa because they ruin everything. I wouldn’t want to live next to Russia but they’re not fucking shit up over here so forgive me if I bitch about the dominant military empire that literally owns parts of where I live and makes us a target in war.
So you live in some country that doesn’t have a name?
Also, I mean this is whataboutisl at its finest. We all know west does bad things, but you know what? Russia is way worse. NK is way worse. China is way worse. Iran is way worse. But guess all you have is a personnal hatred for one and and only one specific country.
China is way worse
Point to the country that China has invaded in the last forty years killing millions of innocent people. Point to the country where Chinese-lead sanctions lead to the deaths of half a million children.
Oh? Those countries don’t exist? The worst of China’s crimes abroad are crashing into a fishing boat and throwing rocks at Indian soldiers along a contested border?
I’m down to criticize China when it fucks up but if you think it’s worse than the USA or any NATO country for that matter you are objectively wrong.
The Uyghur genocide is just one, in the 40 last years, before that it’s even worse. What a nice dictatorship.
You are such clowns.
The Uyghur genocide
Ah yes, the incredible evil of checks notes job training programs and anti-extremism outreach. I suppose China should have just bombed Xinjiang into dust instead, the American method.
When China kills it’s only sparkling death, not real murder.
Iran has never hurt me, China has never hurt me, never roped the country into an illegal war that left half my highschool mates broken meth addicts, Russia has never hurt me. Idk what to tell you. Empires are evil, necessarily. The usa is the inheritor of the British legacy, they export war and exploitation. I’m sure if Putin led such an empire it would also be ugly, I’d prefer a more balanced world.
Tbh China seems like a sort of bad neighbour (are there states which are good neighbours?) but they seem to generally be in favour of institutions like UN and they don’t militarise the shit out of the world. They’re a better trade partner than the usa.
Oh, but you see, it’s not about you sweetie.
They all kill mindlessly, go there and see for yourself, person from un nameable country.
… Um ok? And the usa doesn’t? Isn’t it like number 1 for imprisoned population on the planet? Ultimately though I can’t judge countries by their domestic situation, because that’s not something I can do anything about.
What I can judge countries by is how they destabilise the world and the ideology they export. The USA enforced, often extremely violently, a deeply exploitative world order which has effects locally for everyone. If Putin executes some dissidents then that is tragic, it is not however a globally significant issue. Something like the usa starting the war on drugs, strong arming nations into imprisoning or executing significant portions of disadvantaged populations is.
Or the usa couping governments left, right, and centre to maintain an exploitative resource extraction international order. Which destabilised the globe and oppresses millions is.
You might say “Iran would do that too!” but a) they haven’t and b) you’re guessing. Very few nations have ever behaved as badly as the usa/britain/france/spain. The others have chilled out, the usa hasn’t.
You’re doing the whataboutism again !
It’s almost as you copy paste that stuff… Hmmm maybe you’re not from “un nameable country” after all?
