“That being said, I am happy to give up my right to vote as a trade for a significantly better quality of life. It’s cleaner, it’s safer. There’s more opportunity in mobility,” she said.
“There’s no one on this planet who could be that bad of a person that we need to assassinate just to keep them out of the presidency,” Christian said. “How radical the American culture and society is getting in its entirety is making me go, ‘I really need to get out of here.’”
Christian and Salah said they won’t be voting, and Do said she is still learning about the process for voting abroad right now.
“I think American politics is a joke,” Salah said. “I think we’re seeing that no matter which party is in power, no matter which face it is, it’s kind of the same system.”
Jesus fucking Christ.
Ya, that’s rough. That feels like a very immature take. The two parties are not the same, voting does matter, and I’d even argue that there are people so awful that assassination does make sense but I’m happy Trump survived because I think the Republican party would have been stronger without him.
I left the US, I’m between a millennial and gen z, and I left explicitly because I was worried about the future of the US and because moving abroad is akin to time traveling 20 years into the future. I have healthcare now, I live in a walkable city with great public transit, the crime rates are lower (although most places in the US aren’t super violent, the probability of getting murdered goes way down when you leave), I have 6 weeks vacation, essentially unlimited sick time, and I’m not allowed to work overtime.
Both parties are not the same but if Democrats won in a landslide in every single election both state and federal in every chamber and every seat, how many years would it take to achieve all of those same things. I have no doubt these policies would happen with the right people in office, with radical change to the party they could even happen quickly and I believe it’s what half the people want. But the two other outcomes are 50/50 with the parties and little gets done in a timely manner and worse the corrupt judges continue to error the system, or the Republicans win one big election just one more time and project 2025 starts getting a percent complete tracker and we slide back into the dark ages.
So I left. I believe if things go bad in the US historians will look at Trump’s first victory as a period of brain drain from the country. But that’s my two cents to go with this article.
Did you renounce your citizenship, or are you paying taxes and able to vote by mail?
I am paying taxes and am able to vote, but because I make less than the required amount my taxes are essentially zero to the US because we have joint tax agreements between the two countries.
I don’t know if I’ll renounce after earning German citizenship or not but the exit tax is something I have to consider.
Just curious, but please continue to vote and help prevent the dictatorship aspiring moron for the rest of us who can’t escape.
Yes, of course. I wish you and everyone stuck there luck.
“I think American politics is a joke,” Salah said. “I think we’re seeing that no matter which party is in power, no matter which face it is, it’s kind of the same system.”
Anyone who thinks only American politics are a joke is naive af, and needs to read more non-American news or history
As someone who personally knows someone like this, these people are the least knowledgeable about the outside world. They barely consume U.S. news, let alone international news. They don’t know the politics of the green grass they’re dreaming of, they don’t want to learn another language, they don’t even really want foreign jobs. They want a remote job in the U.S. so they can abuse the weaker economies abroad.
It’s just such an incredible amount of ignorance and cowardice to me. As if the U.S. falling completely to fascism wouldn’t impact them at all if they can simply walk away.
The belief in that guy may indeed be partially to blame :D
American bourgeois democracy is not only a sham; it is rotten to its core. All that is missing is a force strong enough to kick it and watch it come collapsing down.
Come to Finland, we are the happiest country, and we need more people.
Summer is full of mosquitoes and in winter you don’t see sun at all.
Language is hard but English is well spoken. This adds complexity to getting citizenship, but you can get permanent residency by working here for five years, unless our xenophobic party doesn’t increase that to eight years.
We are quiet people unless we are drunk.
Password in the border is pronouncing Sauna correctly (sau - na, not like soona, unless you are from Savo, where it is pronounced saana).
Edit: Here is a government site that lists jobs that you can apply as foreigners and move here with visa: https://www.workinfinland.com/en/
Y’all don’t want us. Hard as f to move there unless you have specialized experience
Our population is at aging point were the large age groups are going to retire. If you can hold a wrench or use a computer, there is a work for you here.
Pay is of course 1/2 or 1/3 what it is in US, but because healthcare and education is totally free, it is pretty much the same.
Easiest way is to find a company that hires you first, because they can apply you for a working visa.
Here is a government site that list available jobs for foreigners: https://www.workinfinland.com/en/
There are open jobs like for chefs, electricians, nurses, coders, Santa’s Elf (really, look it up) etc
I understand you think that but I literally was applying for jobs for like 6 months early this year. Not even a single response. I’m a decent data engineer with like 4 years of solid experience and a graduate degree. Could’ve just been my fault not applying to the right places though for sure. Anyway thanks for that link!
Strange, I would say that experienced data engineer would get hired here very quickly. My team was searching one senior and one junior data engineer 6 months ago, and got 0 applications for senior role. Junior we took directly from school desk.
I know that searching for job is quite painful, but that is quite global. Good luck.
I actually got a great job about a month ago :) but thank you! Maybe a couple of years here then I’ll come by with some more of that juicy experience.
The first page of the jobs site linked literally has “restaurant worker”. What the hell DOESN’T count as specialized experience to you? Ability to breathe?
Okay apply for it and see if they accept you genius I’m literally saying in practice it’s not like oh hey I qualify this job I guess I work in Finland now
Got problem with your link:
Apparently there no jobs available.
You might need to wait for a second it to load, seems that they have coded it bit poorly that it shows that while it loads the results.
Quick question! I live in a town in the US that was heavily settled by Finnish people. Meaning saunas are kinda normal for the area and you see Finnish flags flying alongside the US ones.
Point is that I was told it’s pronounced SOW-na. Sow pronounced like “OW.” Is that true or are the Finnish-Americans fucking with me?
It is correct, sow-na might be hard because not sure do people know how to pronounce sow (female pig) correctly :). Other maybe better example is of “sour” without the r, and adding “na” on the end.
Thank you for verifying that for me! I’m never sure if they’re just pulling my leg or not.
Finnish spelling is very consistent with its phonology. “a” and “u” are pronounced kind of similar to as they are in Italian or Spanish or something, except further back in the mouth. So yes
Finland sounds exactly like Minnesota! I’mn
I have met a lot of Finns and they are all pretty great. All a bit mad, but kind and fun.
Plus they don’t mind when I make fun of their insane language. 😆
Can confirm, used to take the hydrofoil from Tallinn many times while living in Estonia.
Nooooo please stay working two jobs to afford to live while also being a medical emergency away from being homeless
medical emergency away from being
homelesscriminal
Nooo please stay we want to profit from you
This is America, we will profit from them over there too.
Wait till they find out which 2 countries tax expats (Russia and US)… Leaving is still gonna cost ya.
Doesn’t it cost to renounce your citizenship too?
Yup, a boatload of money if you want to do it the official and proper way.
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Pretty shity rule tbh. Spain also does it and i want to move there but still keep my other two citizenships but with the current system i couldnt.
Lol, you’re not getting a Japanese passport.
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Well shit! Look at me with cake all over my face. Are you a citizen tho?
What are they gonna do, send a debt collector to the consulate?
It’s moreso, unless that tax debt is paid, you’re never coming back to the US. Of course, some will say they never will.
Maybe not. It depends.
First, there is a long list of countries where you can deduct a lot of money from your salary if you pay tax in the other country. I think it’s like $90 thousand dollars now? So if you make less than that you don’t pay US taxes on top of your taxes where you are living.
Second, for basically the same list of countries you can deduct your taxes paid there from your US taxes.
The upshot is this only impacts countries the US empire doesn’t deem worthy (I don’t know which, sorry), or people who make a lot of money in low tax countries. I am told that both Switzerland and Japan fit that description.
So if you make $150k in Saudi Arabia then you’ll end up paying US tax on most of that I think. 😄
The US system of taxing their citizens abroad is unfair, but people living abroad vote in the last place they lived in the US, so they don’t have enough concentration of votes to matter. No politician is going to care if 0.02% of their constituents whine about unfair taxes when they have doners at home to appease.
How can they move to another country? Countries aren’t just taking whoever shows up. Even Americans have to bring something to the table. Doctor? Engineer? Ok. Barista? HVAC guy? LOL good luck. Gen Z hasn’t figured out they’re stuck here. Time to start fixing shit.
Some countries like Geemany or Italy (some towns) will actually pay you a living wage if you are moving and are a professional, not much mind you, but enough to support you until you can up on your feet. There are other countries with similar programs but I don’t remember right now.
EDIT: I forgot the thing with Spain. If you have citizenship with any latin american countries, they will give you a work visa there super easy and cheap. So if you are an American GenZ who’s parents are Mexican, then you just got your Mexican citizenship thanks to a recent change in Mexico and can also apply to move to Spain.
For your skilled and educated workers, its very easy. Not to mention your neighbouring countries have experienced brain drain for an entire generation because of higher American salaries.
Prepare to experience brain drain as your best doctors, scientists and engineers easily move to other countries leaving you grasping to have enough people in critical areas.
This is one of the reasons the US excelled as a super power. Getting a constant import of the best and the brightest from around the world makes all your companies more successful and your army stronger and better equipped.
Time to start fixing it? These people are leaving because it’s painfully obvious that this shit is on the brink of getting much worse.
You missed the point.
WHO is leaving?
HOW are they becoming citizens of another country?
I’m not saying we should or should not leave. I’m saying most of us don’t have the option to leave.
And your response is “can you blame them”? LOL no I can’t blame them. I also can’t be them, and neither can you unless you have an amazing career or the right family member in another country.
So time to start fixing shit. Because there is nowhere else to go.
Millennials figured out it’s cheaper to send kids to college in Europe.
Gen Z graduates college in the EU, compares the living standards, and stays there.
This is brain drain, not American Asylees. Although that’s coming if we stay on this path.
60% of people under 30 didn’t vote during the last election, the majority of them support the Democrats.
“We can’t do anything to improve things at home, let’s move somewhere else.”
Fuck off, other countries aren’t your consolation prize, fix your own shit.
Do you have a source that those people leaving are the ones that didn’t vote? I would guess that people who consider a measure as drastic as leaving your home country, would vote above average.
Furthermore, I would expect that mainly well-educated people are leaving the US, simply because it’s much easier to get a work permit elsewhere. And high education typically also correlates with higher participation in elections.
I didn’t have much time right now to a deeper research on these stand points. So if I’m wrong, I’d highly appreciate any sources.
lol source is the OP’s article.
I left the US, and I vote. (Though voting absentee is super annoying)
Direct quote from the article:
“That being said, I am happy to give up my right to vote as a trade for a significantly better quality of life. It’s cleaner, it’s safer. There’s more opportunity in mobility,” she said.
“There’s no one on this planet who could be that bad of a person that we need to assassinate just to keep them out of the presidency,” Christian said. “How radical the American culture and society is getting in its entirety is making me go, ‘I really need to get out of here.’”
Christian and Salah said they won’t be voting, and Do said she is still learning about the process for voting abroad right now.
“I think American politics is a joke,” Salah said. “I think we’re seeing that no matter which party is in power, no matter which face it is, it’s kind of the same system.”
Sorry but quotes from two random people are not a serious source to prove that non-voters are leaving the US or vice versa. That’s what you call anecdotal evidence.
In the article’s example they are, in other cases they might not be but they’re still the people who have the most influence over other people their age who don’t vote and they’re the people who should get involved instead of abandoning ship if they believe the system doesn’t work for them.
They absolutely still have the right to vote from abroad
I never said they are (in general, in the article they actually are), but they sure as hell have the power to push people their age to vote!
Yes, fix the shit by kicking out the triumvirate of policians, corporations and military altogether, not by voting for lesser evil and dealing with shame after legitizming brazen, out of touch geriatric fucks; hoping that just one more legal act will prevent business from torching the planet, manipulating prices, avoiding taxation, eliminating competition, trampling down consumer rights and exploiting workers; or that there might ever be a good war and a bad peace and gaslighting yourself that it’s for a just cause and not spheres of influence and profits off the backs of countries treated like the disputed territories of ‘Nineteen Eighty-Four’.
once all the smart and hard working people are gone i will finally be able to get a job!
They should pay us to leave!
That’s a great idea. I’m going to float that to see if it will get any traction where I’m at.
I imagine that means moving abroad is going to get even more expensive. Great
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Oh great, you’ve speedrunned the crazy republican playbook
Hurt people hurt people.
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Than you have never been in a conflict with someone close to you before. Which is something to be envious for.
Personal anecdotes do not science make.
Oh. But my quote wasn’t anecdote: it is the title of a study. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352250X17300611?via%3Dihub
It’s expatriates. Not ex-patriots.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expatriate
“Expatriate” is from the Latin “expatriatus” and meaning to leave the country of one’s origins or father specifically. It started in the 18th century as a word for exile, especially self-imposed exile; but now represents all those living in a country other than that of their birth.
The border will be closed and I’m not talking about people who want to get in…
Worked out great for East Germany.
Just like the original settlers!
People were leaving to join the tribes, so guards.
I immigrated to the us as a child, now as an adult I’m considering a move to Europe for the quality of life. Immigration is not easy though but if the US becomes the hell hole the gop wants, I’m out dawg.
IDK, every generation has had challenges to face. If this generation thinks the answer is to move away and everything will be fine and dandy, I’m afraid they’re mistaken. You’re going to have to earn it and put in hard work, no matter where you go. And while the US has some issues that get magnified, the grass is rarely greener on the other side.
Spending a 1/10th of my income on rent instead of half of it makes things a hell of a lot easier.
Doubt you’ll answer which is fine but where’d you move from to? Sounds pretty drastic.
You’re just lacking in imagination and don’t really get how good life can be. Other developed countries actually want their citizens to live well.
Moving away does make everything better depending on where you move of course. The thing that’s difficult about it is the move itself, you need money at the very least and many countries have strict requirements for allowing folks to move there.
Speaking for almost every other country, please stay in the US. We don’t want you.
Asshole.
Sure, we’re the assholes being priced out of our own countries to make room for Americans looking to “live like kings”. You ruined your country, fix it. Don’t come ruin ours.
Asshole.
You’re an asshole for being a nationalist. The only “us” and “them” are the workers and the owners. Fuck your borders. “We” didn’t ruin “our” country; They ruined the world.
Between your bullshit there is a grain of truth: Any worker who leverages disproportionate purchasing power in order to become an owner is an asshole.
A worker going to another country in order to build a life for themselves is not an asshole.
So fuck you.
Fuck you, you’re an asshole for being a colonialism apologist. It’s not nationalism not wanting to be expelled from our own country to give room from rich bastards from another country who spit on our culture and language. It’s being anticolonialist.
I’ve seen family and friends being forced to leave and my country bring drained from its best people only to become the little Kingdom of rich fucks who spit on us. Yeah, we had enough.
The US is 100 times bigger than my country. Now you want it too and I’m supposed to roll over? Fuck you! Get your own house in order! Yeah, it’s OUR country, deal with it. It’s not fucking Rhodesia you colonialist fuck!
Is it the broke zoomers from the U.S. that are flooding your country?
Do they out work you in the labor market?
I guarantee that a broccoli cut So Cal motherfucker working at a grocers isn’t causing housing prices to rise.
You’ve got reality twisted. It’s the owning class that’s rat fucking you.
Yes, they are, and rich foreigners are one of the tools. You act like one of their tools you get treated like one. Colonists share responsibility in colonialism. All your arguments could’ve easily be used in an African country protesting European colonialism. Houses in my country are being sold directly in the US. They’re being built and sold directly in foreign markets while local people work all day and live in tents or under the bridge. The ads look so much like the old colonies in Africa. Selling paradise, selling my country, selling my culture like it’s fucking Disneyland while ommitting the existence of the original inhabitants. We get to accept servitude or just leave because iTs A gLoBaL wOrLd.
You are defending colonialism. You’re so worried about American workers and the owner class but you don’t give a rats ass about our community that is being destroyed. Nah, we’re just dumb natives that know nothing about class warfare and you’re the white savior willing to give us the previlege of your enlightnment. We should just take it up the ass and things will surely work out…any day now…
Fuck you!
Again, the US is 100 times the size of my country. You can’t justify needing to come here. Your country is larger and less crowded. You have enough room for everybody over there. You keep coming over more people will have to leave. It’s just ethnic cleansing with extra steps. You fucked your country, then fix it! We’ve lost enough of our own people, enough of our culture.
We are not Rhodesia! We are not Hawaii! You are not poor immigrants trying to make a living, you are people trying to exploit a country poorer then your own (and as such lower priced). You are colonialists!
When the owner class stops fucking us over and people no longer need to leave then Americans and other foreigners are welcome as they always have been. Except you. You’re a fucking colonialist and we prefer human beings. You are not worth my spit in your face.
Rich.
Rich foreigners.
What did I say about them in an earlier post? Put them and every other parasitic member of the owning class against a wall for all I care.
I’ve only spoken about workers. If that doesn’t apply to the situation in your country, then I’m not talking about what’s happening in your country.
You obtuse flippin nincompoop.
You ruined your country.
Ah yes, I really fucked up back at the constitutional convention when I designed a system that mathematically guarantees a two party system, leading to inevitable gerrymandering, entrenchment, and no incentives against unlimited fundraising . Same with that electoral college that allows minority rule via farmland. I think I got a lot of rights right, but in retrospect I probably should have worded the 2nd amendment differently, or at least foreseen the exponential development of weapons’ destructive power and not implied that citizens should have equal arms to the government. Maybe I could have even got rid of it, I don’t know. I definitely fucked up when I allowed slavery to continue for a while and then after we got rid of it, decided redlining was fine and wouldn’t affect things for multiple generations. I probably also fucked up when I was running all those lobbying firms in the 50s and destroyed American communities to make room for automobiles, and simultaneously started the military industrial complex subsidizing the rest of the worlds defense in exchange for not having healthcare.
I really fucked it up bad, totally my fault. Crazy that I managed to do all that before I was born, and despite voting in every election for the only people who want to slightly change some of that stuff. But you’re right, my bad. I should fix it by voting for a rep in… Oh wait, I forgot I lived in an area without any actual representation for a while. I guess I shouldn’t have created Washington DC!But it’s ok, now I live in an area where my vote means nothing because our system is mathematically designed for gridlock. Guess I should just soak in the unfixable path dependency, instead of trying to go contribute to a different country that has none of these problems. But I was born here, so it’s my…duty to fix all those mistakes I made before I was born rather than going somewhere else, because it’s my responsibility. And you’re probably right to want to keep me out, because I just wanna come… steal your good society instead of contributing to something that more closely aligns with my values. Good read on the situation, you got me!
I sympathize with everything you said. Fact remains, if you come here with your US salary it will force our natives to leave because they’ll be priced out of their own country.
Now, if you are really serious about contributing to my country then you take the same local jobs we do, pay the same taxes, learn our language and play by the same rules.
Since you’re so interested, let me be clear WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU. Here’s the deal:
The average wage is around a 1000 euros a month but a big part of the population only makes minimum wage which recently jumped (not being ironic) to 820 euros a month (7 years ago it was under 600). A big part of those learning minimum wage have degrees and are educated. Rents in any city with more than 100,000 people start at 600 euros and by that price you won’t get nothing more than an old apartament falling appart. By the way, the rents have not stopped skyrocketing so don’t count on living in squalor for just 600 euros for long. Also, if you want to live in a city with more than 1,000,000 people (a must if you work in a specialized job) those 600 euros are double and they’re rising even faster.
Still interested?
It’s not personal dude. The Portuguese have always been very welcoming of foreigners. But we feel we have been taken for fools. We feel we were taken advantage of. We are being killed here. I don’t think you guys are really getting how bad things are getting. This country is dying because it’s being bled dry of what is more important: its people. It’s not about who’s coming in, it’s about who’s bring driven out.
I do wish you all the best.
Ok, enjoy your 3rd world education, failing infrastructure and crumbling social programs. Oh, do you have clean water where you are?
But at least you could call someone on the internet an asshole. Did you write that in your F150 while cruising down a 6 lane highway passing the signs of your corporate rulers?
Smh, Americans…
For clarity: You’re an asshole for being a nationalist.
Why?
I really only want Americans to start waking up. Talking rationally isn’t working. It’s the coach-approach, “you can’t do it, kiddo” but hopefully one of you will snap into it. It’s not going well so far and I simply CAN NOT understand how you keep arguing these absolutely worthless issues instead of doing something meaningful. If only you could peer inside from the outside for only a minute…
Are you xenophobic towards everyone or just americans? Are you Agartha’s strongest super soldier?
I know you just learned this nice, big word and you want to throw it around but keep learning and look around, you’ll see it’s no really hatred.
Let that spin around in your head for a minute and see where it takes you.
I can tell its hatred because you are patronizing me. “I know you just learned this nice, big word,” wretch.
Do you think I hate a child or a mentally handicapped person?
No, you’re just stuck in a bubble you can’t see outside of. It’s not your fault, what is your fault is that when confronted with a chance to change you only keep digging in.
Would you be angry at a child who would never stop touching a fire? No, maybe lose your patience but not truly angry.
Your false sense of moral and social superiority is sickening. Please look within and understand you are wrong about literally everything you have written today. Its saddening to see someone who in their mind believes everyone else is so below them. I believe you can be better, should be better, its important that you are.
