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I always they don’t call them “mechs” in-story because it creates the idea that nobody every thought of giant walking/battling human piloted robots before whatever crisis appeared in the story. Alternatively the in-story universe recognizes that fictional mechs exist like Gundam etc, but the new name is used to differentiate between in-story fiction and in-story fact.
“Remember when we were kids and watched mechs Voltron and Gundam on Saturday morning? Now we’re Jaeger pilots!”
I’m pretty sure most mecha fiction writers don’t use the word “mech” in universe becasue FASA trademarked the term as related to the Battletech franchise and it’s still enforced by Topps.
TIL
How come nobody knows what zombies are but everyone knows what aliens are?
The answer is because aliens have been a topic of speculation for ages. It’s similar to vampires. Vampires have their own lore from books. Zombies don’t have that. They have other zombie movies. The only way for someone in a zombie movie to believe in zombies is if they’ve seen a movie about them or they have previously experienced a zombie outbreak.
It’s entirely plausible that individuals in a movie’s universe might contemplate the possibility of extraterrestrial life before an alien invasion.
It’s equally plausible that people have encountered the lore surrounding vampires before experiencing their first encounter.
It’s highly unlikely that people watched a zombie movie and then experienced a zombie outbreak.
I mean… Zombies are a Haitian voodoo thing.
Voodoo introduced zombies, but the modern zombie has diverged significantly from that concept, making them quite distinct from each other. A movie character pointing at a zombie and saying “it’s like one of those voodoo zombie things” doesn’t make much sense because the concepts are pretty different now. Additionally, more people associate Romero zombies with the word “zombie” rather than the voodoo zombie.
Arguably the modern view of zombies only dates back a couple decades. Night Of The Living Dead is the first instance of an unthinking undead plague. It only became a genre because US copyright law used to be really stupid, and the whole movie was accidentally public-domain. So it doesn’t take any huge shifts for an alternate universe to simply have no idea what the word “zombie” means, unless a character is familiar with Voodoo.
Exactly. The most plausible in-universe use of the word is to say “Wow, look at that thing. It’s like some kind of voodoo zombie.” Though, the issue with using that kind of statement is that way more people know about the modern Romero zombie than they do the voodoo one. So people wouldn’t really understand. It also implies that the zombie is supernatural.
Honestly, even Romero didn’t use the word. He called them ghouls. Which… I think is also basically like Voodoo zombies, but for vampires instead of priests.
Nope, apparently from pre-Islamic Arabian folklore. Humanoid monsters that lurk in graveyards and eat people. Fitting.
also, like with everything, pre-NotLD, zombie movies were rife with xenophobia and racism - existing to draw a distinction between Christian white people and “voodoo” black people and the modern (i.e. post 1900) social justice, suffrage, apartheid and segregation movements.
Do I remember it right that the whole “zombies eat brains” thing comes from Return of the Living Dead?
I think the idea of the dead rising from the grave and walking around is a very old scary story but as you say the Hollywood “zombie” is such a new concept that it’s got no real lore behind it. I’ve seen several folks make the case over the years that the Hollywood Zombie is a conveniently blank canvas to paint present day existential dread onto, that “zombies” can always represent the threatening other, be they nazis, communists, anarchists, kids these days, mindless consumers, terrorists, nazis again for some fucking reason, liberals, conservatives, whatever.
Where they come from, how they work, how they behave, what happens to their victims, that can change to match the fears of the modern audience. Evil magic brings dead people back to life and they slowly shamble toward you and smother you. A deadly virus that comes from a lab if we’re on an anti-science kick or a foreign country if we’re being xenophobic this election cycle turns people feral and they sprint after you and tear your flesh off. A more different deadly virus is spread by bite, so if you let them too close, they’ll recruit your children to their cause! Or it’s an army of people who have gotten brain implants and an army of Borg drones who work as a hive mind with a single purpose: To make you get a 5G plan too!
The Other who is less human an thus less valuable than I am are attacking and we have no moral hangups about fighting back very wantonly.
Do I remember it right that the whole “zombies eat brains” thing comes from Return of the Living Dead?
Yep! Return Of The Living Dead is a whole other level of fucked up, and it is fantastic.
There’s a hardcore band named after one of the best lines.
I’ve seen several folks make the case over the years that the Hollywood Zombie is a conveniently blank canvas to paint present day existential dread onto, that “zombies” can always represent the threatening other, be they nazis, communists, anarchists, kids these days, mindless consumers, terrorists, nazis again for some fucking reason, liberals, conservatives, whatever.
Deeply ironic, considering Romero movies are mostly about threats from the living. Night is a classic American horror movie with desperate strangers trapped in a house. Dawn is about what people think they need. Day is loudly about the limits of authority and quietly about the limits of hope.
It’s not until Snyder’s fast-zombie remake of Dawn (and the modern craze it kicked off) that right-wing moralizing really crept in. Even though that movie has the absolute best takedown of apocalyptic gun fetishism.
*Xeno scum
Shaun of the Dead though…
Shaun of the Dead is a parody of other zombie movies, and it humorously highlights the fact that other zombie movies are hesitant to utter the word “the Z word” without raising questions about its origin.
yup you’re absolutely right!
I wrote that comment a bit tongue in cheek as opposed to being a contradiction … when I came back to my comment I realized I’m just too tired today to have conveyed that well enough
I can relate. I feel dead.
:)
SI spotted
What are the mecha shows?
Gundam, Evangelion, Transformers, Macross, Aldnoah Zero, etc etc. There are some more nonjapanese examples but I didn’t see much of those myself. I think MegasXLR or something was one? Live action of course I’ve seen much less of.
Mech Warrior of course bucks the trend. There are several game series I failed to mention beside Mechwarrior as well. Battletech iirc also uses Mech.
There are several game series I failed to mention beside Mechwarrior as well. Battletech iirc also uses Mech.
Just some useless factoid: MechWarrior is Battletech. There is the MechWarrior (mostly first-person shooter with some RPG mechanics) series and a Battletech (Turn-based Strategy game with RPG mechanics) video game too of course but both come from the Battletech tabletop.
I think it’s really easy for people to not get that.
I first came in contact with the Battletech franchise when my dad bought a Microsoft Sidewinder joystick that came with a copy of Mechwarrior II: 31st Century Combat for Win 95. I played it, I had a lot of fun with it, I had no idea it was from some larger property. I mean obviously it was a sequel to Mechwarrior 1, a game that apparently even existed. But they really didn’t make it clear that this is one facet of a larger franchise. I had no idea that the tabletop game, or the novels, existed. Mechwarrior 4: Vengeance also failed at this, because if you don’t know the lore, it feels like it’s full of careless fuckups. “It used to be called a ‘Star,’ now they’re calling it a ‘lance.’” “Mad Cat? That’s clearly a Timber Wolf.” etc. It wasn’t until I started playing MW4’s multiplayer that I learned that it’s actually a fairly large franchise.
That’s pretty much how I got into it too. I had that Sidewinder joystick with the old “game port” cable for a long, long time. I think a demo disc or something got me hooked and then I bought the game a few years later. My dad bought me the Sidewinder for Jane’s Advanced Tactical Fighters.
I still have mine.
My understanding is even though the Sidewinder 3D Pro plugged into the Game port, it didn’t use it the way it’s designed. The Game Port is designed to basically be two Kempston ports, designed to support two 2-axis analog joysticks with I think 4 buttons each, but the Sidewinder joystick doesn’t use that, instead it implements its own weird digital data protocol over some of the pins. I don’t know if a driver for it was ever incorporated into Linux, I have no idea what a Linux machine would do if you plugged one in. I’ve never owned a Linux PC with a game port, though I have the facilities to build one.
An upshot of this is a generic Game Port to USB adapter wouldn’t work with the Sidewinder because I don’t think it can implement that weird driver through USB. I am aware that at least for awhile there was a special adapter just for Game Port Sidewinders.
Anyway I got a full copy of MW2: 31CC with that joystick, not a demo disc. And in my household it was Jane’s AH-64D Longbow.
An upshot of this is a generic Game Port to USB adapter wouldn’t work with the Sidewinder because I don’t think it can implement that weird driver through USB. I am aware that at least for awhile there was a special adapter just for Game Port Sidewinders.
That’s funny you bring that up. I had an issue I dug into with the Sidewinder Gamepad and came to the same conclusion about the pin-out. I had assumed it was because it allowed you to daisy chain more gamepads together – One connect to the game port. Second connects to the first’s other built-in game port and so-on. I had assumed it was using something to multiplex the data. If that’s the case, I wonder if the Sidewinder stick driver intended to do the same thing but they never actually implemented the built-in game port.
EDIT: Oh to add about the Linux thing. The Sidewinder game port driver is a part of the Linux kernel, so it probably works with the game port even now.
I’ve never managed to get the Mechwarrior 4 games running on a Linux box, and I would LOVE to play them again. Wine just shits itself.
I think I have a PCIe sound card around here somewhere…
Just fyi, MW1 was pretty great (I mean, simulated 3d via vector lines, 16 colors, maybe like 5-10 frames per second) - one of my favorite DOS games in the 386 days
I’ve seen a couple screenshots but I’ve never seen it running, and god help you get a copy and actually run it these days.
MW2 was just…such a beginning. I was fairly young when that game came out and had no idea that Battletech was a thing even after playing Mechwarrior for a few years, so this is a genuine question: Did Battletech feel and sound the way it does before MW2? Every Battletech-related soundtrack I’ve been exposed to reminds me of MW2’s, That intersection between tribal drums, overdriven guitar and bombastic strings that just IS how Battletech sounds, did that exist before MW2?
no, iirc there’s no music during gameplay… in fact this may be the only music in the game - when you visit the bar to get clues and recruit mercs. https://youtu.be/C5y60Hi97MU?t=94
it was a primitive time.
Oh my god that’s so bad I love it. I can only imagine the PC speaker trying to bleep that out if you didn’t have an Adlib card.
I knew there was some connection between em but wasn’t sure if it was by the same people, or based on it like Robotech, or a knockoff, so I just left it out. Thanks for clarifying.
Yeah no problem. I just figured it was maybe an interesting piece of trivial information you might like. I didn’t intend it to be like an ACKTUALLY moment or anything.
Robotech
OK, so I know this because I used to watch it before school and when I was trying to figure out what that weird show was many years later, it turns out it is actually Macross but butchered up for American kids and tells a different story. Then I was like “wtf is Macross?” This is pretty much the same thing that happened when I found out MechWarrior is Battletech. I’ve never played the tabletop but I’ve played most of the video games from both now.
I think maybe I’m a Mech nerd. If I end up going out and spending hundreds on Battletech pieces I’m blaming you!
Battletech plastic minis tend to be way cheaper than most (like Warhammer). People definitely spend more than hundreds, but you can get the box set with the game rules and 8 minis for $60.
I’ll take the blame off chatokun and link it right here: https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-a-game-of-armored-combat
I’m going to see if my oldest son would be interested too. If he is, then I’m going to do it.
got into macross from robotech childhood, learning how macek / harmony gold rebranded and repackaged those properties is interesting, but then you learn about all the IP fuckery they were involved with, preventing macross from US audiences, but also, claiming sole ownership of mech designs that forced Battletech to retire/retcon classic designs and other shit - ugh. Just awful behavior.
Does Power Rangers count as mecha?
Hell yeah
Yeah kinda? It’s more more tokusatsu, i.e., dudes fighting in costumes. Like Godzilla or Ultraman. The giant-robot elements are solidly fantasy instead of sci-fi.
A key distinction in unambiguous mecha shows is “real robots” versus “super robots.” Super came first and is basically superhero stories where the mild-mannered protagonist’s transformation or supernatural assistance is replaced by a comically large artificial humanoid. Real robot stories are generally sci-fi military fiction where those premises have been taken seriously and given dramatic weight. Power Rangers is definitely not the latter. I guess it’s solidly the former, just… undercut by the main characters also being superheroes in themselves. Like if Batman ended every episode in the Batplane, is that really the same genre as Top Gun?
Don’t zoids count?
Gundam, Evangelion, Transformers, Macross, Aldnoah Zero
And per this post: Mobile Suit, Eva, Decepticons / Autobots, Variable Fighter, Kataphrakt.
Because at this point zombie movies are so generic they have to have a way to tell them apart.
Last of Us is unique enough of a zombie franchise that they could call them Zombies and still be leagues ahead of anything else in its genre
Zombies aren’t cool anymore, so renaming is an attempt at making them interesting.
Mechs are cool af, but just calling them mechs makes it boring.
Zombies were being renamed at their peak. Look at the walking dead.
The walking dead is not peak zombie. It might be peak soap opera.
I didn’t mean it like that. What I meant was the walking dead existed in the time period of peak zombie.
I feel like even back then TWD was seen as a refreshing take on a tired concept. I wouldn’t call that “peak” zombie, though I have no idea what the actual era of “peak” zombie would even be, 2007? no clue.
You’re probably right, I think I’m biased and/or misremembering because I wasn’t a fan of the genre until a little later on.
It’s that old? Dang.
Maybe I’m wrong. How I remember it is it was born out of that time and kicked the end of that time down the road a bit. Remember TWD had spin offs (maybe just one?) and copy cats and adaptations and so on. But yeah it’s almost 15 years old now, so it’s relatively old for a show.
Oh wow, yeah that sounds pretty close to the right time.
Peak second-season slump.
“Wow, what an exciting premise! Oh, we’re greenlit for five seasons? Let’s slow it right the fuck down.”
See also: Heroes, Bleach, Dragon Ball Z.
I think it’s to show that the characters don’t know what zombies are so when they have to learn the same tired tropes that most zombie mythos regurgitates it makes sense to the audience.
Still hard to beat “vertical tank.”
