It’s a studies thing. Conservatives are unable to grasp irony or sarcasm. It’s one of the reasons Steven Colbert stopped his show. The people he was mocking were holding his character up as someone to aspire to.
What?! I didn’t know that
yep, conservatives watched him unironically.
I watched The Colbert Report for years with my mom before realizing that she was just straight up agreeing with the things he was saying.
Colbert’s parody of a right wing weirdo was actually fairly tame compared to the actual right wing weirdos of today.
He got out at the right time, there’s no way he could say things crazier than what Trump and his minions are saying every day.
you are shitting me, are you serious??? that cant be right
It’s apparently the reason he got picked to do the correspondent’s dinner in 2006. If they’d known what he was actually going to do, they never would have invited him.
i have to watch that, thanks!
Oh it’s really funny but some of the jokes are just painful now, namely the climate ones.
They thought they had found their new Wally George.
This dude listens to Behind the Bastards
A lot of quintessentially American things are anti-American
“Born in the USA,” Bruce Springsteen in general, “Rambo,” Mark Twain, “Monopoly,” MTV, et cetera
The arc goes:
- US system is bullshit
- Someone points it out in an artistic work
- People love it and the thing they made gets popular
- System goes “hey we love that you’re buying this please do it more” and promotes it under a guise of it not being directed squarely at them, with some skillful edits
- Thing gets even more popular with more exposure, in its edited (backwards) form, to the point that the original is often semi-forgotten
Being against the bullshit is an American trait. Unfortunately, the bullshit has become more powerful than the against, hence all these problems we have now.
Rambo: First Blood was a critique of a system that has failed its war veterans. The sequels abandoned all that 70s new-cinema moral ambiguity, making Rambo into a Reagan-era anticommunist superhero, a sort of James Bond for people who are suspicious of subtlety.
The same goes for Karate Kid…
I loved how it portreyed Miyagi as a sad man who lost wife and child to the internment camps, while he was serving the US and his medal is a bitter reminder of that fact.
In Cobra Kai is was “War Medal fuck yeah ! Miyagi best veteran, we must protect the patriotic legacy !”
Then in the remakes, they replaced him with Mr. Han (as in Han Chinese), for the same reason why superhero films have scenes set in Shenzhen: because if you don’t angle for a piece of the Chinese market, you’re failing in your fiduciary duty to your shareholders.
Rambo was a masterpiece. The sequels were fanatic patriotism porn.
James Bond for people who are suspicious of subtlety.
😘👌
This Land is Your Land is also not the patriotic song people think it is. At least, not in the way people think it is.
There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me; Sign was painted, it said private property; But on the back side it didn’t say nothing; This land was made for you and me.
This land is my land
This land ain’t your land
I got a shotgun
And you ain’t got oneIf you don’t get off
I’ll blow your head off
This land was made for only meThis land was made for you and me 🎶🎵🎶 (terms and conditions apply)
I don’t think Woody Guthrie cared about the copyright. You go ahead and play that song as much as you want. :-)
I noticed that a large number of children’s shows, especially Christmas shows, are about evil corporations trying to take over and ruin something or pollute the world. These shows are then shown by evil media corporations which show commercials by other evil corporations.
Americans criticizing America is not anti-American.
What happens is the first part of the artistic work is setting up the propaganda and lies that the protagonist is raised into, which the conservatives love and see as validating.
Then the conservatives either stop reading or otherwise fail to see the part of the tale where the hero gets abandoned and harmed by those he thought he was working with/for.
MTV?
Not really “anti American” but not completely establishment friendly. They had Rock the Vote, Beavis and Butthead, Monty Python including the nudity, Jon Stewart got his start there, they had Liquid TV and weird nonsense on the air, at a time when most TV was pure Tom Brokaw and all why bombing Iranians is cool all the time.
Compared to now, it looks super establishment friendly, but for the landscape of television at the time it was pretty anarchistic. Now it is the narrative of course. 😕
To MTV’s credit, they also did a lot to normalize homosexuality with The Real World.
Jonas Čeika has a video essay on Adorno’s critique of television… via the Emoji Movie. Adorno argues that any system worth hand-waving as “the system” cannot comprehend anything besides reinforcement of that system. Even direct populist rebellion simply gets treated as another valid path to a predefined outcome within that system. And that works. These power structures are resilient and effective. That’s how they slimed over everything to begin with.
I thought Monopoly was originally British.
I don’t think so, it’s based off of Ocean City, NJ…
Starship troopers was made by the same guy who made RoboCop another movie whose message goes over people’s heads. RoboCop is about privatization, police militarization, lack of government oversight, and corporate greed.
Like … so many movies from that time period are grotesque warnings about “unfathomably” wealthy and powerful corps running the world. Pure scifi/fantasy at it’s best, right?
🤡🤡🤡
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I watched robocop way too early and same with starship troopers. I totally understood the robocop message, but somehow not the starship troopers one.
As someone who grew up in a country which was invaded and fucked with by the u.s, I got starship troopers right away.
P.s: isn’t it crazy that we grew up watching RoboCop (a hyper violent and gory movie) as kids, and they even used to make kids toys about R rated movies like RoboCop and Rambo. You don’t see that anymore. They used to full on market those movies to kids.
I’m pretty sure most people think robocop or starship troopers is fantasy and as removed from their reality as lord of the ring for example.
A feature of indoctrination is that you don’t see it on yourself.
LOTR is absolutely political IMO.
Yes, but not as directly as sci-fi can be. We won’t ally with elves to fight orcs in the foreseeable future. We won’t talk to ents or ask a wizard for help. Fantasy is metaphorical in essence. Sci-fi is descriptive, realistic. Yet people still treat it as fantasy.
We won’t ally with elves to fight orcs in the foreseeable future.
Mhh… maybe not elves, but there is a current war that is often compared to fighting against orcs & Mordor. Although, I do not think dehumanizing even Russian soldiers is a good idea.
Yes, but nobody in the US will imagine the right is the orcs.
oh those people. That’s maybe a bit harsh, even to orcs - although maybe not entirely inaccurate as orcs are basically the offspring of elves tortured for eternity. And I guess the political right often appears full of inner conflicts and contradictions, and trying to blame others for feeling miserable as a result of the weird values they pretend to follow.
I’m not sure RoboCop fits here. About the time ED-209 blows through that guy, I’m pretty sure everybody sees the corruption there. And you do spend the whole movie feeling bad for Alex and his family and you’re actively rooting for him to exact revenge.
RoboCops old enough, I’m not sure most people newer than Gen X have even seen it.
People do see how bad it is in the movie. What I’m saying is that people do not believe anything in their reality is comparable. When I say that people see it as fantasy, I mean that they see it as an imaginary world with nothing comparable in their own world.
Fair
and what is totall recall about?
Memory, how memory affects reality and a person’s identity and views, even if that’s a false memory.
It’s also about a person’s desire to rise up against corporate corruption while a corporation stifles his desire to rise up. (Why rise up against oppression when you can just implant a memory that says you already did)
The second part of my meaning is of course if you subscribe to my belief that the entire movie after he leaves work and visits Recall is a false memory, since “hero saving Mars” is one of the recall memory options.
‘Born in the USA’ did not ‘fail to convey’ what it was about. It was just wilfully misinterpreted.
Just like a lot of people somehow misinterpret Rage Against the Machine.
I still can’t believe how POLITICAL they got during BLM! They should just stick to singing songs about how law enforcement agencies often hire racist pieces of shit and justify their murders with patriotic bullshit and I like the part where they say, “fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me!”
They should just stick to singing songs about how law enforcement agencies often hire racist pieces of shit and justify their murders with patriotic
There’s a reason it was used as a Blue Lives Matter theme
I think what many people don’t understandt, is that two nostalgic emotions can co exist in an individdum, although they seem to have contradicting implications. so you can be bitter about your life expieriences, but still be filled with happiness about “home”.
there is some psyscological explanation for this, i forgot what it was
Not the point of this post but I think starship troopers did an excellent job of skewering the military, government, and the whole propaganda machine.
Yeah it’s not the movies fault that people have zero media literacy
Paul Verhoeven did a beautiful job of critiquing fascism. I can’t help it that my fellow citizens are stupid other than to vote for more money in education.
I’m doing my part.
i would buy that for a dollar!
YES! Another Verhoeven banger! Straight from Old Detroit.
see you at the party richter ;-)
verhoeven was over the top.
My critique of Starship Troopers is that it’s not a good satire of fascism if the people it needs to reach don’t understand it.
If modern movies have shown us anything, being unsubtle and blatantly preaching at the audience in a way that everyone will understand also doesn’t have an effect. It just gets labelled as “woke” or whatever by people that have fascist tendencies.
I find that kind of thing annoying myself, even when I agree with the message.
I prefer the movies of the past where you weren’t spoonfed the message and had to think about it.
If you have to make it such that even those people understand it, it becomes unwatchable to the rest of us.
What, you didn’t like Dr Strangelove?
I remember someone saying Dr. Strangelove was stupid because there’s no way the US would employ Nazis as their scientists.
Did they also complain about Django Unchained because the US would never have slaves?
To be fair, though, I did really like Jojo Rabbit, and I don’t think that one’s been latched onto by them in nearly the same way. Could be wrong, though.
The thing that’s really difficult for them is that Jojo Rabbit never makes them look cool. Hitler throws a tantrum because a little boy doesn’t like him, then he gets kicked in the balls.
The book was seriously bleak. The movie was a let down in that way. I had a few friends who couldn’t understand how the humans were just as bad as the bugs. In the book it really was everybody fights.
Mobile infantry made me the man I am today!
I think it may not have conveyed what it was trying to do when it was in theaters, but my friends and I (millennials so we saw it as kids) watch it as a ridiculous satire. One of my favourite movies I think. Sadly, I love Hackers, but that is not a satire, they were trying real hard.
I love hackers too, friend. In fact I’ll say I love it because they were trying so hard lol.
Yeah man, like rigor mortis, habeas corpus
Was this talking about the movie and not the book? I lean towards the movie, but I don’t know, not enough context.
That being said, the book was a pretty in your face look at fascism. The movie lost some of it, but I also enjoyed the shit out of the movie.
The movie was straight up a parody of a propaganda film made by the fascist society from the book. It’s a satire meant to make you think about fascist propaganda.
But it was too similar to other action movies that people didn’t get what it was. Which is kinda scary really.
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Not quite the same, but London calling was similarly used for tourism ads among other things
& the 2012 Summer Olympics 😆
Ad companies only care about the chorus. As shallow as humanly possible.
Some fucking shipping company used “Blitzkrieg Bop.”
Not exactly the same thing but megahit Gangnam Style is a critique of bourgeoisie culture in South Korea and the trendy Gangnam district. It’d be like if there was a song called Times Square about what a commercialized pile of capitalist shit that place is, with a funny dance and music video.
i didnt know that, makes sense, thanks, thats really interesting, and totally surprising.
The MI doesn’t want any bone spurs either.
In Italy we have “vieni a ballare in Puglia” by Caparezza.
The title means “Come dance in Puglia” but the song lyrics are a criticism of the working conditions in the Italian region, where health regulations are not respected and people keep dying on the job while they are asked to smile and dance for the tourists. The song makes sense when you replace the word “dance” with “die”.
Though it’s a tarantella and very catchy, so it’s used as a funny song for tourists ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yes, it’s probably a quite global phenomenon.
“I am from Austria” by Rainhard Fendrich includes a line saying “I know the people, I know the rats, the blatant stupidity”. So it’s quite obviously critical of Austrian society, and was written with the purpose of uniting Austrians against Naziism.
Of course the rightwing parties are stupid enough to use it.
Now I’m wondering if the AfD plays Rammstein’s Deutschland…
Not that I know, but I remember that the “peace advocating” Germans used “Imagine” in their protest - the protest that wanted Germany to force Ukraine to surrender to Russia as not to warmonger
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Say what you will about Neoliberals (and I do, to a fault), but at least you never hear the excellent Love me, I’m a liberal played at DNC rallies 😁
I love Lee Greenwood, too.
do other countries […] both political parties
No, other countries tend to have 0, 1, or way more than 2 parties
What’s a country with 0?
Vatican city
Dictatorships like Cuba and North Korea might say they have parties, but they also call themselves democracies or republics.
Can’t remember if we still have any royalty that are actual heads of states without an elected ruling body upholding their decisions, but those would have zero parties if any still exist.
I’d put Russia, China, Iran and Afghanistan before Cuba.
Russia and China still have ruling parties even if their head has almost complete control. If Putin or Xi were removed, it would be through the party selecting someone else. North Korea is basically a monarchy.
I mean that’s how most states with a parliamentary system work, if Keir Starmer were removed, it would be through the ruling party selecting someone else too.
North Korea does have parties, some of which have seats in congress, but they’re small enough to be irrelevant.
Cuba has one party, but since every member of the party above the lowest level is elected, it functions as a more democratic apparatus than most multiparty systems, as evidenced by the overwhelming referendum they had on their constitution.
China is similar but more complicated.
Also while it does have only one party, there are factions within the party that are the functional equivalent of parties.
Take this list as what you will
Personally I view it as flawed as for most listed countries the lived reality is a single party system, often theocratic in nature. But do think it’s feasible to imagine a country with a high degree of self autonomy free of foreign influence operating as a precolonial society would, and political discussions aren’t as involved in factionalism and are more focused on individuals with ideas for the collective
Dprk maybe?
Hehe, ‘democracy’ with two right wing parties still amuses me.
I think Starship Troopers is understood well as a satire of fascism(and an awesome bug-shooty movie), while I have heard every 4th of July parade unironically blasting pro-war songs alongside born in the USA.
There’s also a first person shooter that goes from early access to release soon. I’m a huge fan
oh what! i didn’t know about that one, thanks!
I’ve actually watched all the companion movies and tv shows-which mostly suck-but have enough ST attitude and creativity that they’re still fun.
especially when the original actors show up.
Traitor of Mars was great at showing more of a power armor and a slightly less subtle message of the political problems.
I usually skip the 2nd movie when I feel like watching Starship Troopers.
did you watch those wacky TV shows too?
The actors are doing the voices for at least one of them, I think Casper Van Dien did both.
I have them on my Plex, I haven’t started them beyond the Invasion movie.
We have one called “Westerland”. It’s a song - played by people visiting Sylt, an island where mostly elitist live and rich white people go on vacation. In one verse, they sing “And every person next to me is as dumb as I am.”. The irony is lost to them as the chorus is “I want to be back in Westerland”.
Nobody should use songs by Die Ärzte in earnest for that kind of purpose - they’re tinged with irony and sarcasm as a matter of principle. I love the band for that.
To be fair, what group of 330M+ is?
Immanuel Kant superfans
