Forces had no direct confrontation with Hamas terrorists who killed hostages; ‘The IDF and security forces are doing everything possible to bring all hostages home as quickly as possible. This news shakes us all,’ says army spokesperson Hagari

Israeli forces discovered the bodies of six hostages in a 65-foot-deep tunnel in Rafah, approximately a kilometer from where hostage Farhan Alkadi was recently freed. The IDF had no precise intelligence on the hostages’ location in recent months but knew there were captives in the sector, leading to a gradual and cautious operation in Rafah since the ground offensive began.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    26
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    3 months ago

    Thinking on it, it was probably also costing them what are now valuable resources to keep them alive. When it’s near impossible to get in and out of Gaza, food, medicine, etc. are worth their weight in gold.

        • mwguy@infosec.pub
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          3 months ago

          Because now they’ll be pursued for the rest of their life. Free a hostage and you have essentially a get out of jail free card.

          • GojuRyu@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            3 months ago

            Do you really believe that any member of hamas would be safe just because they let some hostages go? How would that work? Should they surrender themselves to the IDF while delivering the hostages, just notify them of where they are so they won’t be bombed or how would that all work?

            • mwguy@infosec.pub
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              3 months ago

              How would that work? Should they surrender themselves to the IDF while delivering the hostages, just notify them of where they are so they won’t be bombed or how would that all work?

              Israel has tip lines set up for Hamas members and members of the Gazan public to call. You call and say, "me and my boys will have an unspecified number of hostages at x location at y time and are looking to surrender. Then you show up at that time with those resources and surrender.

              • GojuRyu@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                3 months ago

                Are there any examples of it being used successfully and the aftermath of it? This is a genuine question stemming from my own ignorance on the subject. I would really like for that to be a good way of handeling situations where hostages are released, but I could easily understand why a member of Hamas might have reservations if they do not have reason to trust the system.
                If there is good reason to trust it I will agree that that would have been a viable and good way out and should have been used.

                  • GojuRyu@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    3 months ago

                    Unfortunately I am still unable to find any stories that tells what happens to the Hamas members after their surrender. I’m unsure if they get treated well or are sent to the same facilities in which there are reports of human rights violations amounting to psykological and physical torture.

                    I did find some examples of successful surenders, but nothing where hostages were explicitly mentioned to have sweetened the deal of surrender.
                    I do believe you may be right but I have been unable to verify it myself.

                • mwguy@infosec.pub
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  Ahh so are you one of those “genocide is what I feel it is” folk or one of those “genocide is when the Jews are still alive” sort of folk?

                  • SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    3 months ago

                    Did you know there are Jewish palastinians? On top of that, Palestinians are semitic. You can’t call racist when the group I’m defending is in the same racial group and contains religious Jewish folk. It ain’t about being Jewish, it’s about the fact I have seen palastinians getting shot in the street for literally my whole life. My whole life I’m hearing news every now and then how Israel overstepped again and ethnically cleanse an area of palastinians. How they kicked palastinians out of their home. I’ve seen videos of Israeli settlers kicking palastinians out of their home at gunpoint saying that the state sold them the house. It’s a state doing a genocide. It isn’t “the Jews” you fucking moron. It’s the state of Israel. Interesting how you see Israel as being an ethnostate but don’t see their removal of natives as genocide. But that’s what happens when you don’t think about your ideas longer than 5 seconds.

    • mkwt@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      3 months ago

      If you don’t have the resources to provide for your POWs, the correct solution is parole, not execution.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        3 months ago

        How would you propose safely paroling them? There’s already examples of released hostages then being killed by the IDF.

        • mkwt@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          3 months ago

          Any type of parole has to be at least marginally less dangerous for the hostage than execution.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            3 months ago

            If they die either way, no it isn’t.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Alon_Shamriz,_Yotam_Haim,_and_Samer_Talalka

            On 15 December 2023, Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers operating in Shuja’iyya, Gaza as part of the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip killed three Israeli hostages taken during the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel. The hostages, who were trying to be rescued, were visibly unarmed and shirtless and waving a makeshift white flag when they were killed.

            Sounds equally dangerous to me.

            • Bronzie
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              3 months ago

              Execution has a kill rate of 100%.

              Even if paroling is stupidly risky, the ods of death are still <100%.

              It would also be seen positively by everyone and one propaganda piece less for Israel to use.

              Let’s argue with reason and not pretend that because it has happened before it will happen every single time. Cock-ups happen everywhere.

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                3 months ago

                They did what you suggested with those specific hostages. It was not seen positively by everyone.

                They also did it with other hostages that the IDF didn’t kill. It was not seen positively by everyone.

                So you’re right, let’s argue with reason. We can reason that what you’re suggesting doesn’t work based on what they’ve already done.

                • Bronzie
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  My friend, you are literally arguing that executing hostages is the same as attempting to release them under extremely risky conditions because it has failed in the past.

                  If that is truly your opinion, then I honestly have no more to say. I can’t reasonably argue with that type of opinion.

                  I still wish you a great day though and hope the fighting ends soon.

                  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    3 months ago

                    No, I am literally arguing that this claim of yours has already been tried and failed:

                    It would also be seen positively by everyone and one propaganda piece less for Israel to use.

                    And the reason I am arguing it is that it has already been tried and failed.

        • mwguy@infosec.pub
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          3 months ago

          Historically you’ve shipped them to a neutral nation (like Switzerland) who negotiated their return to their home country on the condition that they not be allowed to rejoin the war effort either for the duration of the war or for a specific time.

          None of these things are solutions that haven’t been seen before.