I really don’t get why so many people think the migration is their biggest problem instead of economy and especially demography in Germany. The industry is stuck in the 20th century, that’s the main problem which needs to be addressed, not if there are some migrants here and there.
Yup, that’s one flavour of propaganda. Others include racism and xenophobia, all different kinds of fear mongering from stealing jobs to raping “your” women, flat out lies like people eating pets, nationalism, exceptionalism (sadly not only an American problem), and so on. It is everywhere in pretty much all the media we consume consciously and un/subconsciously, even the most left leaning people can’t completely avoid it, we just work harder at being aware of it and (in general, should) do our best to combat it in our own minds and the minds of others.
Which is especially sad in Germany, because we ought to have learnt from the mistakes of the past and mastered the art of improving ourselves. The stereotype of a German being overly critical was true for exactly that reason. Apparently the Generation that should have learned it from first hand simply forgot.
Migration is not a problem itself. It is uncontrolled migration that is. It is normal when you have a lot of people coming in your country that don’t get papers so they can’t find normal job, appartment etc that they will turn to criminality to survive. IMO I think it is inhuman to let people in these situations. I am far more for more border control and easily giving papers to people who want to come to the country than letting borders open and ignoring them and letting them rot in the street.
you either willfully or unknowingly spout far-right conspiracy theory between the lines.
migration is not only normal, but essential to the survival of the planet and each country/region. it’s a net positive.
we’ve gone so far out of our way to make it a “we” vs “them”, when there’s no “we” at all. there’s just rich people protecting their interests, trying (and suceeding) to divide the masses
You guys are so focused in your bi party that people being able to not see in black and white are always your political ennemy.
My point is I am 100% for giving more visa and in an easier way to people so they can live their lives in the system like everyone. I have friends that have no papers and have been living 5 years already and won’t have anything for at least five more years. This is not acceptable. They are working here (not officially of course since no visa) and paying tax.
But also we can’t welcome everyone too because the system couldn’t handle it. The state need to have a way to reduce and also increase when needed.
But right now here, you have some countries that will have access to visa in an instant but others that will do all the work we don’t want to do and have to wait sometimes 10 years to have access to papers.
Explain to me what is far right conspiracy in my point.
but also we can’t welcome everyone too because the system couldn’t handle it
That’s the far-right talking point strawman. Somehow “the system” can handle billionaires not paying taxes, it can handle big corporations getting bailouts, it can handle giving billions to war efforts. But it can’t “handle” people moving? Like they have always done?
And maybe we don’t need a system that “can’t handle” that. I can’t handle this system.
Yes totally agree with you if the rich and ultra rich payed tax in our country we could without a doubt handle this amount of people.
But the problem is that they aren’t. They aren’t because government (at least here in France) give them many tax gift etc but even without that you can’t tax a starbuck that is reporting only deficit because all their profit goes into buying product to starbuck netherlands.
We live in a globalize system where anyone with enought money can evade tax legally.
In a world where politicians would do this job for career but for the good of the people I would think taxing them would be possible. But the politicians won’t attack their biggest supports.
With that assumption all the remaining thing to do is to control more the incoming of people BUT give a lot more social to the one coming in the country.
And to be clear, I would like to live in a world where we could share the wealth in a better way but when you look at where the world is going I can’t force my self to not believe in it.
Yes they are ignored, when you refuse to give a visa to someone that has been living for years in your country, paying tax and doing the work no one want to do, you are in fact ignoring them.
When you don’t have paper where I am from you can’t get a real job, you can’t rent a normal flat with a contract. You have to live without guaranties like knowing you will work tomorrow or if you are going to sleep in your appartment.
The thing is, they can’t work in Germany because they don’t get the permit. They’re living here for months or years without being allowed to work while the German citizens complain about how they don’t want to work. It really sucks. The reason I said they’re not being ignored is that I’m pretty sure it’s like that on purpose. Left wing parties are heavily losing votes while right wing parties can use this to support their narrative of lazy immigrants that only come to Germany to abuse our social system.
Exactly. What’s more, demographic change alone has led to an urgent need for workers from abroad in Germany. This applies to low-skilled as well as highly skilled workers - for example in crafts, catering, healthcare, nursing, IT or engineering, just to name a few sectors. What the right-wing parties and their supporters are propagating is not only inhumane and amoral, it is also economically disastrous. It is these unscrupulous opportunists who are ruining the country with their racist hate; not the migrants - quite the opposite.
Because none of the big party wants to acknowledge that, random example, abolishing the wealth tax was a bad idea. Not even the bloody SPD: They’re not addressing social issues, aren’t addressing people’s fears for the future, aren’t addressing the lack of perspectives, which leaves room for demagogues. Because doing that would mean that they need to make actual changes to the system, and why would the SPD implement SocDem policies there’s a reason they’re known as the traitor party.
It’s, in short, a lack of balls in the SPD’s political base to get rid of the Seeheimer circle. Get rid of that New Labour nonsense. Maybe, you know, when Berlin (as in the city state) votes to expropriate large landlords you take that as a sign that you fucked up and change course, instead of trying your best to not have to implement the expropriation. “But won’t someone think about market confidence!” MFers did it help market confidence when the east went full-on AfD. Get a grip.
I was asking myself the same thing but formulated as “are people getting more stupid?”. With the right rising and the most stupid shit like chemtrail conspiracies.
I really don’t get why so many people think the migration is their biggest problem instead of economy and especially demography in Germany. The industry is stuck in the 20th century, that’s the main problem which needs to be addressed, not if there are some migrants here and there.
Propaganda.
And scapegoating
Yup, that’s one flavour of propaganda. Others include racism and xenophobia, all different kinds of fear mongering from stealing jobs to raping “your” women, flat out lies like people eating pets, nationalism, exceptionalism (sadly not only an American problem), and so on. It is everywhere in pretty much all the media we consume consciously and un/subconsciously, even the most left leaning people can’t completely avoid it, we just work harder at being aware of it and (in general, should) do our best to combat it in our own minds and the minds of others.
It’s always easier to blame others then think about how to improve yourselves.
Certainly when areas of improvement are controlled by rich people who in general like to contribute being rich.
Which is especially sad in Germany, because we ought to have learnt from the mistakes of the past and mastered the art of improving ourselves. The stereotype of a German being overly critical was true for exactly that reason. Apparently the Generation that should have learned it from first hand simply forgot.
Because people want simple solutions to extremely complex issues.
Plus misinformation. I swear people were better informed when they were less informed and discussing politics over the coffee table with their peers.
How do you figure that? Germany in particular has quite the history of blaming the wrong group of people for its problems.
Migration is not a problem itself. It is uncontrolled migration that is. It is normal when you have a lot of people coming in your country that don’t get papers so they can’t find normal job, appartment etc that they will turn to criminality to survive. IMO I think it is inhuman to let people in these situations. I am far more for more border control and easily giving papers to people who want to come to the country than letting borders open and ignoring them and letting them rot in the street.
[citation needed]
That sounds like an argument for a robust social safety net, not an argument against immigration.
Also an argument against work restrictions.
It’s not like there isn’t anything that needs doing.
Unfortunately even the safest nets will tear if overloaded
you either willfully or unknowingly spout far-right conspiracy theory between the lines.
migration is not only normal, but essential to the survival of the planet and each country/region. it’s a net positive. we’ve gone so far out of our way to make it a “we” vs “them”, when there’s no “we” at all. there’s just rich people protecting their interests, trying (and suceeding) to divide the masses
Most “far right” people are exactly the kind that made the comment you reply to. I have a “friend” that became exactly like this.
So telling that I am 100% behind legalizing people and let them live and work normally is being far right ?
You guys are so focused in your bi party that people being able to not see in black and white are always your political ennemy.
My point is I am 100% for giving more visa and in an easier way to people so they can live their lives in the system like everyone. I have friends that have no papers and have been living 5 years already and won’t have anything for at least five more years. This is not acceptable. They are working here (not officially of course since no visa) and paying tax.
But also we can’t welcome everyone too because the system couldn’t handle it. The state need to have a way to reduce and also increase when needed. But right now here, you have some countries that will have access to visa in an instant but others that will do all the work we don’t want to do and have to wait sometimes 10 years to have access to papers.
Explain to me what is far right conspiracy in my point.
That’s the far-right talking point strawman. Somehow “the system” can handle billionaires not paying taxes, it can handle big corporations getting bailouts, it can handle giving billions to war efforts. But it can’t “handle” people moving? Like they have always done? And maybe we don’t need a system that “can’t handle” that. I can’t handle this system.
Yes totally agree with you if the rich and ultra rich payed tax in our country we could without a doubt handle this amount of people.
But the problem is that they aren’t. They aren’t because government (at least here in France) give them many tax gift etc but even without that you can’t tax a starbuck that is reporting only deficit because all their profit goes into buying product to starbuck netherlands. We live in a globalize system where anyone with enought money can evade tax legally.
In a world where politicians would do this job for career but for the good of the people I would think taxing them would be possible. But the politicians won’t attack their biggest supports.
With that assumption all the remaining thing to do is to control more the incoming of people BUT give a lot more social to the one coming in the country.
And to be clear, I would like to live in a world where we could share the wealth in a better way but when you look at where the world is going I can’t force my self to not believe in it.
They’re not being ignored tho, they’re just not allowed to work
Yes they are ignored, when you refuse to give a visa to someone that has been living for years in your country, paying tax and doing the work no one want to do, you are in fact ignoring them. When you don’t have paper where I am from you can’t get a real job, you can’t rent a normal flat with a contract. You have to live without guaranties like knowing you will work tomorrow or if you are going to sleep in your appartment.
The thing is, they can’t work in Germany because they don’t get the permit. They’re living here for months or years without being allowed to work while the German citizens complain about how they don’t want to work. It really sucks. The reason I said they’re not being ignored is that I’m pretty sure it’s like that on purpose. Left wing parties are heavily losing votes while right wing parties can use this to support their narrative of lazy immigrants that only come to Germany to abuse our social system.
That’s why support for anti immigration parties is so concentrated in regions with few immigrants
And why do you think it’s like that?
Bigotry of small-minded people who live in communities that need more diversity.
This is definitely not the case in Sweden. During their last election it was the complete opposite.
Found one.
One ?
Exactly. What’s more, demographic change alone has led to an urgent need for workers from abroad in Germany. This applies to low-skilled as well as highly skilled workers - for example in crafts, catering, healthcare, nursing, IT or engineering, just to name a few sectors. What the right-wing parties and their supporters are propagating is not only inhumane and amoral, it is also economically disastrous. It is these unscrupulous opportunists who are ruining the country with their racist hate; not the migrants - quite the opposite.
Because none of the big party wants to acknowledge that, random example, abolishing the wealth tax was a bad idea. Not even the bloody SPD: They’re not addressing social issues, aren’t addressing people’s fears for the future, aren’t addressing the lack of perspectives, which leaves room for demagogues. Because doing that would mean that they need to make actual changes to the system, and why would the SPD implement SocDem policies there’s a reason they’re known as the traitor party.
It’s, in short, a lack of balls in the SPD’s political base to get rid of the Seeheimer circle. Get rid of that New Labour nonsense. Maybe, you know, when Berlin (as in the city state) votes to expropriate large landlords you take that as a sign that you fucked up and change course, instead of trying your best to not have to implement the expropriation. “But won’t someone think about market confidence!” MFers did it help market confidence when the east went full-on AfD. Get a grip.
I was asking myself the same thing but formulated as “are people getting more stupid?”. With the right rising and the most stupid shit like chemtrail conspiracies.
The answer seems to be a disinformation campaign.
https://www.politico.eu/article/fbi-dossier-reveals-russian-psy-ops-disinformation-campaign-election-europe/
We are at war, they try to divide us and it is working.
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