- cross-posted to:
- politics
- cross-posted to:
- politics
Mel Nichols, a 37-year-old bartender in Phoenix, Arizona, takes home anywhere from $30 to $50 an hour with tips included. But the uncertainty of how much she’s going to make on a daily basis is a constant source of stress.
“For every good day, there’s three bad days,” said Nichols, who has been in the service industry since she was a teenager. “You have no security when it comes to knowing how much you’re going to make.”
The amount tipped workers make varies by state. Fourteen states pay the federal minimum, or just above $2 an hour for tipped workers and $7 an hour for non-tipped workers.
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No one should ever have to work for tips. A living wage should be minimum for all workers, no exceptions. If you get tipped beyond that, great, otherwise, fuck off employers exploiting people.
Just to clarify, since people are confused. No one should ever have to live off sub standard wages and hope to hell they make enough tips to survive. This is an exhausting daily hustle that detracts from your quality of life. A livable minimum wage, enforced in all states and industries for every employee, regardless of age, should exist, no exceptions. $20/hr would be a good start. And if people also earned tip money, that went directly to that employee, no sharing with the employer or other employees, that would be fine. Employers need to pay employees proper wages, not your customers.
You’d rather the person in question make $20 an hour all the time instead of $30-$50?
Because that’s what would happen
This is the bullshit propaganda restaurant owners spread, and unfortunately a lot of tipped workers buy it.
If you’re making $30-50 an hour, why would you stay at the job if they offered you $20? Your job is a skill, and the better you are, the more it is worth to your employer. Employees will go where their skills are appropriately compensated. Setting the minimum ensures that all workers can support themselves, and that will force all wages higher.
So labor is worth market value in the labor market?
I agree, then there’s no need to change minimum wages for tipped employees
No, because labor rates are an unbalanced equation. Without a regulated minimum, employers will take advantage of the excess of laborers. The inherent threat of the violence of poverty will always create more supply than demand, because there is always someone willing to work for less.
But if your employer already values your skills at a certain rate, there’s no reason to accept a pay cut for the same work. If you’re great at your job, you’ll likely still earn tips, but without the risk of going unpayed for your labor.
That only applies during high unemployment, right now there isn’t even 4%, really nobody to exploit. Fast food places in California are paying $20/hr starting, much higher than the local $15/hr minimum wage in the cities
That $20/hr was legislated by the state not the “market rate” like you’re trying to argue. It’s kind of hilarious that you used that example considering it completely supports the other side of your argument.
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Cool. No reason that work shouldn’t pay a living wage for everyone everywhere forever.
If there’s a big crash and everyone loses their jobs it’s better that a few more people have jobs that pay under a living wage.
It’s easier for the government to give a little bit assistance to someone who is underpaid than to pay all of their bills
Just abolish tipping. Everyone hates it except the restaurant owner. Why are we pandering to the owners when the customers and the staff vastly outnumber them?
That question summarizes most of the problems in the US pretty damn well.
Actually a lot of servers and bartenders get really annoyed by the prospect of abolishing tipping. They can make really good money from tips.
I agree it’s a terrible system but you get a lot of push-back from workers if you try to change it.
understandable in some ways, but also, I worked a bar in the uk for decent pay (5 star boutique hotel) so it can happen
I’m fine with this, I’ve been in countries where there’s no tipping and their service is just as good
No they would make the $20 plus the tips instead of $3 plus the tip so if they made $30 in an hour and only $3 was from their hourly rate that would mean with the new rate they would be making $47.
Why would you assume people would stop tipping? As a consumer I would have no idea their hourly pay rate changed so why would I change my tip? Also tips are based on the service provided not the difference between what they are paid and a living wage that’s not my problem as a consumer.
The poster said nobody should ever work for tips
Yes. Nobody should. They should work for a fair and livable wage. And then they can get tips on top of that. How does that contradict what the poster said?
Tipped hourly work wages are just another way that corporations fuck over workers.
It’s funny how they don’t consider raising the minimum wage for those who don’t receive tips, but rather lowering it for those who do. Make clear the type of people who propose this
Minimum wage is the basic necessity… Why the question arises to lower that too remains mystery in this 2020’s where inflation, rich poor division, daily lifestyle are all in a chaotic state?
the correct answer is there should be no tips and those workers should be paid the same amount as every other worker.
I’ve read on other social platforms from wait staff that they would prefer tips to a living wage because they can make so much more with tips than without.
I’ve cut my dining out significantly recently because with the recent hike in restaurant prices, plus the minimum 20%
taxtip, dining out is unaffordable.Also, during covid I became an incredible cook.
The tipping system really just obfuscates the exploitation.
Employees have rights. Foregoing your right to be paid a fair wage in exchange for the chance to make a little more than a fair wage some times just seems bat shit crazy.
If they make more with tips, then they don’t get to complain when somebody doesn’t tip them.
plus the minimum 20% tax tip
Where are you eating that has a 20% minimum tip? I’ve only seen stuff like that for big groups.
I should have specified … minimum “suggested” tip. Like when they specify that 20% is added foe groups or if they calculate it for you on the receipt and it shows 20, 22 and 25% or at the terminals at the table the 3 options start at 20. I feel guilty for doing custom and selecting less.
I always have to do custom. It’s shitty, but I’m not going to lunch to subsidize someone’s pay, I just want a sandwich.
A tip should be a reward for higher quality work, not asking your customers to subsidize your workers because you’re too cheap.
A higher minimum wage for restaurant staff is going straight onto the menu prices anyway. But then customers weary of expensive restaurant food stop showing up.
Restaurants are pretty much the toughest industry to be in. The vast majority of them fail. And the ones that really succeed (fast food) don’t have tipping anyway.
The ones who are making all the money are the landlords who own the land the restaurants lease from. They don’t care if 7 tenants restaurants go out of business in 5 years. They can always find more.
Thing is, the price is clearly going up whether or not the wages do… so… Moot point
The prices are going up now because all of the following are getting more expensive:
- ingredients
- energy
- rent
- delivery fees (for delivery of ingredients to the restaurant)
- laundry
- maintenance
Raising the wages of staff is another expense to add on. To the list.
Restaurants are not a lucrative business. Most barely break even or lose money. They can’t afford to pay staff more without raising prices.
If you can’t figure out how to run your business without abusively underpaying your staff, maybe you shouldn’t be in that business.
That really doesn’t need to be said. Countless restaurants go out of business every day! The staff still end up having to find new jobs all the time.
sounds like restaurants need to own their own land
The McDonald’s business model is to own all the land their restaurants are on. Real estate!
see, at least mc donalds gets the idea. Even if they don’t make anything edible.
I think the ship has sailed on that one…
Not so sure, more and more people fed up with greedy price gouging seem to be cutting back on tipping. You see it in business rags trying to sell it as “are consumers getting more stingy?”
Tips go away, tipped workers go away, tip-model businesses then have to adapt or die. (While whining that nobody wants to work, I’m sure.)
I don’t even understand the issue. What’s keeping them from tipping someone who earns a livable wage? Your service was exceptionally good? Here’s my green bill of appreciation. On top of the fair wage you earned by showing up at your place of employment.
Because of the culture of tipping and pay structure in the US, tipping is generally not seen as something extra for good service but just part of the price of stuff at restaurants/bars/etc. So in this sense, tipping wouldn’t be required for people earning a living wage. But you’re describing what tipping “should” be, and yes, with that definition there’s no reason to not tip for the occasional above and beyond work.
But it’s even brought up as a reason why paying livable wages would be a disadvantage for good servers. Those two things just don’t add up.
Besides that, I want to be able to feed myself and my family even when I have a bad day. If all my days are bad then maybe I shouldn’t be in this job in the first place, but that’s another story.
Edit: even here there’s one of those “but tipping good” people. https://lemmy.world/comment/13002675
I get your point, but I’m not trying to make an argument about whether people would make more or less with tips. I don’t necessarily mean a specific amount when I say livable wage, I more mean may what they’re worth. I’m just saying there’s sort of two types of tipping but both have the same term.
This is not even the right question to ask. Fucking pay your staff! No one should have to depend on tips to survive.
You got a lot of people from the ‘pro-tip’ crowd glad to say “I make more with tips!” whenever someone suggest replacing tips with fair wages.
If they make more with tips, then they also have to deal with not getting tipped from people like me.
I make more with tips
This is so naive.
If tipping just wasn’t a thing at all ever, they would make the same amount. If they’re really that amazing at their jobs someone will pay them well enough to do it.
The same group that will vote for pro-rich-person legislations because they think that some day they’ll be rich too.
No. An employee’s value to the business isn’t reduced by them receiving tips. The business shouldn’t be able to pay them less because they are a better employee.
Lol but they already paid so little because of tips. And now they want to go even lower?!
No, this is to eliminate the tipped minimum wage.
There are two bills mentioned in the article. One in Arizona is to make the subminimum wage even lower. One in Massachusetts is to raise the sub minimum wage to match minimum wage, effectively eliminating subminimum wage.
Shame on me for assuming the Arizona one would also be progressive. (I live in Massachusetts, so I’m familiar with that proposal.)
I dunno about you, but $30/hr seems pretty good for a HS grad
I never tip. Tipping culture should die.
That’s wrong. What you should do is never go to restaurants where workers rely on tips. They have to tip out the bartender/busboy/runner at the end of the night and you not tipping means they’re losing money when that happens.
So maybe don’t be an asshole and abuse an already terrible system.
Tipping means facilitating this system.
By not tipping in a place where it’s expected, you’re facilitating the system and ensuring the employee is exploited.
If you don’t patronise places where tipping is expected, then you’re not facilitating the system.
When oh don’t tip you give the restaurant their money, but the waiter doesn’t get their money. Think about who this is hurting.
Downvoted for even asking such a cunty question with only one answer.
Wait do people really not know that servers and bartenders already make below minimum wage before tip? In NY and I think most states have it set up so the specially set minimum wage for tipped service workers + the minimum % you must claim from tips comes out to the state wide minimum wage amount. Everything they make in tips after that is cash in hand no taxes, period.
The fact this is even up for debate shows the people debating to raise it have no idea what they’re talking about.
If you suck at you job and keep getting scheduled on swing shifts that see no patrons so no tips, your employer must match the necessary amount to get you to minimum wage. Only ever saw that happen a few times for really really part time servers. But in one or two 4-6 hour dinner rushes at average sized establishment, it was more rare for the servers to NOT take home more than what the cooks made in a 40hr week. 8-12hrs of largely untaxed tips = more than 40hrs @ 12/hr or at least that was the case 7-10 years ago.
Lesson 2, never go salary working for a restaurant. It turns you into legal slave labor. You will be at that restaurant more than you aren’t for the same fuckin paycheck amount week in and week out. I never went salary but have a record of 91hr work week when the place I was at opened a new location. Made bank hourly but if I were salary I’d be the same amount paycheck for 90hrs of work.
That’s what we should be looking to improve regulations on. Exploiting faux salary promotions for exploration of labor laws lol
I stopped reading after your first paragraph because there is so much wrong.
Minimum wage is federal law. If, as a tipped worker, at the end of a pay period, your base wage plus tips doesn’t make minimum wage, your employer must make up the difference. (I don’t know if states with higher minimum wages carry over this requirement, or if the employer only has to make up to the federal minimum wage.)
You are supposed to report all tips as income. Yes, most people will under-report cash tips, but that is tax fraud. (Again, this may vary for state taxes, but I’m not aware of any that say tips past minimum wage are tax-free.)
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A living wage fixes all those problems. It not only fills in the hole where those “rare” servers don’t bring in enough to even cover minimum wages, but gives the worker in any job the power to choose to work or not. The employer has to make the job more attractive to bring them in. Anyone who says that’s going to be hard for the employer…that’s exactly what they want to you say.
