- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Summary
In October 2020, Samuel Paty, a French teacher, was murdered following a false accusation by a 13-year-old student who claimed he’d shown anti-Muslim bias. The girl had made up the story to cover the fact she had been suspended from school for bad behaviour.
In reality, Paty’s lesson on free speech included optional viewing of Charlie Hebdo cartoons, but he hadn’t excluded anyone. The student’s story triggered a social media campaign led by her father, who, along with others, is now on trial for inciting hatred and connections to Paty’s attacker, an 18-year-old radicalized Chechen.
The school will be named the Samuel Paty School from next year.
And then people start raping animals because no more rules
… If there were no rules you’d rape animals? Maybe you should go to church, but don’t pretend we’re all like you
No they certainly shouldn’t go to church. The next thing they’ll be doing is beheading people for wearing the wrong color socks. They need a therapist not a preacher.
More like a jail cell.
Now now, we don’t know they’ve committed any crimes, just that they would if they weren’t superstitious.
Besides, even (especially) inmates can benefit from a little therapy.
No, I’m not sexually attracted to animals. But if there’s no objective morality, then what’s wrong with raping animals?
Why does morality have to be objective to keep you from raping animals?
What’s wrong with it if morality is subjective and I’m my own god?
Who told you you were the one deciding what’s moral and what isn’t? Just because objective morality doesn’t exist, doesn’t mean morality at all doesn’t exist. Your argument is flawed from the start. But hey, you do you, if existence of god is the only thing stopping you from being a total psycho then keep on trucking buddy.
Why can’t I?
Because “morality” comes from what you have been taught as a child, and what is acceptable in a specific society / country. Hence why Americans do shit that is considered immoral in Europe and vice versea. That’s why there are people who actually do the things you said you wanted to do in the posts above. That’s why bloodthirsty dictators exist. That’s why people who grew up in different environments have different values. What’s immoral to the Amish will be moral to a Muslim. But you, a single random person don’t get to decide “from now on we do XYZ”. XYZ needs to be accepted in society to then be taught to people further and instilled over generations.
So, for example, should we enforce our morality globally with human rights? Or is that white supremacism.
Depends on what sort of god you are. Most are harmless, but the malicious ones get Nietzche’d.
I say it’s wrong and I’ll try to stop you.
Who are you to judge?
Me.
Holy shit, your religion is the only thing keeping you from raping animals???
Are rules the only thing keeping you from raping animals right now? Because that says more about you than the rest of the world.
If there is no God, then morality doesn’t exist.
And that’s why you are not a good person. Most people don’t need the threat of eternal hellfire to empathize and understand that it’s bad to hurt people.
That’s because there is a God and we have a moral compass that’s divinely designed. But without God, it can still be overridden. Everyone has committed evil at some point in their lives.
Your beliefs are not supported by anything other than an old book. Shit, Newtons theories of gravity have more evidence for them than your boom of fairytale and we’ve still discredited them. Regardless of the prominence of belief in the Christian God and its pervasiveness in western culture, that does not mean that morality does not exist without God unless you come at it from a specifically platonist philosophy. And therein we see the problem: your subscription to one form of ancient philosophy and denial that other ways of thinking even exist.
Most of history isn’t supported by anything other than an old book. You can’t compare it to gravity.
I also know that history doesn’t make metaphysical claims about the nature of the universe and concepts such as morality. Science is our best way of understanding the world, not voodoo. That’s why I mentioned gravity.
Nop. In your head only.
The religious do not have a monopoly on morality, ethics or the social contract. If they did, the secular people wouldn’t be outraged whenever a religious leader got caught diddling a kid.
If I had a penny for every time someone on here used the sexual abuse of children to try and debunk the resurrection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I’d have enough to buy a sandwich.
Hypothetically, even if Jesus came back from the dead, what does that have to do with his self described “followers” being child molesters? What does that have to do with non believers being outraged at the various denominations reluctant at confronting the molesters?
Did you read the article? Because I think the person beheading the guy had strong “religious morals”…
That’s Islam
So not only did you weep when you read the bible, but you also promptly forgot everything it said and proceeded to judge others despite Jesus’ words. What a good christian. Please go away.
Huh? When did I judge others?
“that’s Islam” isn’t judgy to you? As if beheading someone is the average answer to stuff in the quran. Also, remember that the bible and the quran are both based on the same stuff. They’re not as different as you’d like to believe. It’s literally just a bible with some added texts which. Both of which are barbaric due to them being outdated.
Also, I suggest you reread Ecclesiastes 5:2 for another example of how you’re sinning in this thread.
The Qur’an is absolutely not based on the “same stuff”. Such a claim is just flat out false. It is in no way the Bible with added texts- that’s just flat out incorrect. And your Bible verse about approaching the temple out of context isn’t relevant either.
This is the most stupid answer I have ever got in my life
That’s God
Wow, just tell everyone that you are a sociopath with no conscience or empathy?
If you have no morality without pedophiles and a global child abuse rings threatening you with torture for eternity, then you are a horrible person all around with or without religion.
I do not have paedophiles and child abuse rings threatening to torture me forever, what are you on about
Abrahamic religious organizations are notoriously and with very few exceptions, hosts to child abuse rings and shuffle pedophiles consistently around their organizations when it comes out in their community. See: every Catholic church scandal of the last 100 years and further, and hundreds of protestant church scandals in the past decades.
They threaten that if you don’t follow their book and do what they say that their deity demands, you will be tortured in hell for all eternity.
There is no hate like christian love.
https://apnews.com/article/us-news-sexual-abuse-by-clergy-religion-crime-bf69964182bf4fd1bf3fee1789abef0b
https://www.bishop-accountability.org/AtAGlance/USCCB_Yearly_Data_on_Accused_Priests.htm
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/254393/illinois-attorney-general-report-sexual-abuse
https://eu.augustachronicle.com/story/news/2022/05/26/list-alleged-sex-abusers-southern-baptists-churches-made-public/9946627002/
& https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/southern-baptist-leaders-stonewalled-sex-abuse-survivors-report-indicates
https://apnews.com/article/los-angeles-church-sexual-abuse-settlement-8d04f5c8da061462f04be59b73cc3e92
And hundreds more of individual cases here: https://www.reddit.com/r/PastorArrested/
Not even counting the sexual predator pastors and clergy shielded by the church
I do not love an organisation. I love Jesus Christ. This is irrelevant to me.
Ah yes, the classic child-abuser-apologist line that every “christian” brings out when confronted about the abuse of their revered leaders that they absolutely refuse to condemn before they go back to church to give money directly to the abusers every week.
Do you love Jesus or have convinced yourself that you love him because you are so afraid of hell? Very Stockholm syndrome-esque. Take kids during their developmental years and tell them that “people” go to hell and are tortured forever unless they love Jesus and follow sky-daddy’s rules (and by extension, the rules of the church). Then they are told that over and over until they are brought to a special ceremony to declare their love.
Or I guess you have never once been to church and never a single time been told that people go to hell if they don’t love Jesus and accept him into their hearts? I guess you just read the entire bible without any external influence at all and converted after your brain was fully developed after 25 or so, again, with nobody telling you about it. But I guess when you lie, you can just ask Daddy for forgiveness and you get off with no consequences! Tons of harm, no foul.
Either way, I guess I am glad because it is the only thing stopping you from rampaging around murdering, raping people and animals, stealing, torturing, maiming, abusing, and whatever else you apparently so strongly desire to do.
My church doesn’t have child abusers that I’m aware of. If they did, I’d leave. I left a different church, partially because they paid licencing fees to Hillsong, which had several scandals.
God issues justice, and all are sinful. Only Jesus can save you. Not a Church or following rules. Church is where I receive the sacraments, meet with other believers, worship, and help build God’s kingdom.
That’s contradictory. You were upset with God’s justice, now you’re upset with His mercy.
If you want to suffer the consequences of your actions, you are welcome to do so. But don’t act like He didn’t take it on for you.
It sure does
are old fairy tales the only thing keeping you from banging goats???
Then where do they come from, if there’s no objective morality.
Not true, abortion is becoming rampant because political factions are trying to change a moral fact. Nazi Germany also attacked the Church and started allowing the dehumanisation of Jews through secularism.
They come from people, of course. Here’s a history lesson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisprudence#History
False, abortion rates in the US have been in decline since the 80’s:
His point about Nazi’s attacking the Church is also blatantly false BTW. Nazi’s had a bit of a conflict with the Catholic church at the beginning, but they quickly reconciled and pretty much enabled them. Nazi’s also created their own version of Christianity, the biggest difference to other branches being that they claimed Jesus wasn’t actually jew, but of Aryan descent, and Hitler was the new Messiah:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity
NAZI Germany was Christian and endorsed by the Pope you absolute clown
The Nazis were absolutely NOT endorsed by the Pope. Romanist bishops were often jailed for speaking out.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskonkordat
Such paragons of morality, they started out by trying to ensure they were the state religion and their priests were a protected class while Jews were being persecuted.
Read your own article.
Oh no! Leopards ate their faces. What a shame. Who could have seen this coming from fascists.
A religious organisation agreeing to keep out of politics is fascist?
Morality is a product of civilisation and community. It’s the ability of groups to decide on a single set of rules by which they would lime to be treated by, as breach of those rules can cause physical or emotional harm. And then there’s simple evolution, where certain “moral rules” allowed civilisations to survive and thrive better than others.
At no point is “god” required here.
Morality comes from the simple shit such as “I don’t like that…maybe I shouldn’t do it to others!” And stuff like “we’re stronger together”. Which even the creatures with tiny brains have managed to figure out before you. Congratulations.
Morality is not derived from religion. Society has moved well past that.
If you don’t understand then you lack education, but that’s the only reason. You are not in the right here.
Clearly not since society’s idea of morality keeps changing. So it shows if there’s no God, there’s no morality.
Religious morality keeps changing as well. A few hundred years ago according to Christianity it was morally right to use black people as slaves, because they had no souls. Luckily, society has progressed and gradually it became immoral to enslave people all over the world. In the end, Christianity had no choice but to accept this - although it took some wars to convince them everywhere about it.
Where does the Bible say black people don’t have souls?
This fucking guy.
You… you should not be allowed at the petting zoo…
Humans already rape animals on an industrial scale. That’s what artificial insemination is. Religion didn’t stop that.
The fact that raping animals is illegal is not the reason I don’t rape animals. If the only thing stopping you from committing horrific crimes is a belief in the sky man then I suggest you remove yourself from the general population (become a hermit) so us normal people don’t have to worry about you losing faith in your invisible friend and going berserk at a petting zoo.
You’re funny. Now, back under your bridge with you.
🫡
I’d hoped this was missed sarcasm then I checked the profile. Its verifiable stupidity.
wow…
Or people commit genocide because of a command from an entity we just assume is the source of all morality and therefore their actions and commands cannot be immoral by definition.
How about committing genocide because genetic science proves that your race has superior genes? The problem is with people’s behaviours themselves, regardless of what excuses someone uses to justify them.
We can have a discussion about the moral frameworks where that would be wrong but an absolute moral giver allows for no such discussion.
Discussion is absolutely possible as to interpretations, specifically amongst those who actually hold the reigns of power.
Interpretation can be possible, but often the driver doesn’t seem to be a genuine seeking of a moral truth but working backwards to avoid morally unpalatable conclusions or outright cherry picking and ignoring certain parts of a text. I see that as a tacit admission that morals don’t actually come from the text itself but maybe there’s something I’m missing as I’m far from an expert.
No matter how divinely inspired any text may be, it will ultimately suffer from the imperfections of the limited human ability to convey ideas amongst each other, and over thousands of years it becomes corrupt. This is obviously exacerbated by those who would deliberately seek to derive power from it, in ignorance of any truth which may have been professed at the origin.
I agree with you on this one for sure. That’s one of the reasons I think that a text is not a particularly good foundation for an absolute system of morals. I don’t know why we need to mess around with interpretations in that case.
We need a common foundation around which any coherent society can centre themselves. In order for that to propagate beyond a single generation, ideas must be passed down in some form for others later to still understand why things are as they are. We simply don’t have a perfect answer, and never will without knowing all of everything which ever has and ever will happen.
Lol make sure to check out this guys posting history for more zany fun, this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this guys animal rape fantasies