I’m an unfortunate captive of the oligopoly of the internet industry in the USA. In many places, you have 2-3 choices of internet, and all of them suck ass. I’m in this situation. All internet providers in my area have a 1-1.5 terabyte data cap. So when I download Call of Duty for 250 gb and it fails and has to update or reinstall, I’ve wasted 500 gb, and have now reached 50% of my data cap in just 1 day. There are crazy fees, for example, Cox Cable says:
If you go over, we’ll automatically add 50 gigabytes of data for $10 to your next bill. That’s enough for about 15 hours of streaming HD video. If you use that 50 gigabytes, we automatically add another 50 gigabytes for $10 and so on until you reach our $100 limit of data overage charges or until your next usage cycle begins.
So your $90 a month internet can easily become $190 a month, which is fuckin criminal, like that is so scummy and asinine how that can even be legal. But it is perfectly legal. The FCC is also looking into these data caps but now that we have a new anti-federal government president elect… This is probably toast… Nothing will change now that most federal agencies are about to be deleted.
From a technology standpoint too, nothing is really getting better
Comcast is still using Coax instead of Fiber Optic and desperately trying to convince people that somehow, someway coax can be just as good. Do with that info what you will, I have no opinions on it. There was a Federal program started recently to expand rural internet access, which will probably be gutted in 2025 leaving many without suitable internet again. Fiber Optic is fast, but still, not new technology, and doesn’t solve a critical issue… It doesn’t matter if you have 2 Gigabit internet if no one in the world is uploading even half that fast. A single download on Steam is like 450 Mbps, Epic Games launcher is horrifically slow. I get like 120 Mbps max when downloading Fortnite updates even with 1500 Mbps internet hard wired to my router with top tier hardware
It’s just sad to think about the future of internet in the USA, and knowing we’ll be imprisoned by these data caps for the foreseeable future.
Data caps are insane in 2024
1.5Tb data cap, jeez. I regularly push 6tb of monthly traffic by myself. This feels like mobile internet all over again, but now with wired…
Things are getting better. A new fiber-only network provider is expanding across my region so I got it installed a few months ago. No data caps, 500 Mbps up+down for $50/month.
Speaking of fiber and things that are not fiber, asymmetric connections are one of the most predatory internet practices in existence, only a small distance behind data caps. Oh, you want our super expensive 1gbps plan? How about 3mbps upload?
There used to be very real hardware reasons that upload had much lower bandwidth. I have no idea if there still are.
Probably because they don’t need to as we are used to it and also more bandwidth to multiplex for other residens/clients to offer.
They probably kill off any agency who would protect your consumer rights, anyway. And redefine “broadband” as “you’ve got modem access, so stop whining”. And let the companies keep the subsidies they got for making the former broadband definition happen.
Based on Ajit Pai last time, there will be a significant rollback on consumer rights and protections. You can bet Starlink will get greenlit for anything they want though.
No, once the FTC is gutted, the isps will resume their stronghold. Data caps, overages, slower speeds, etc.
Also get ready of net neutrality disappearing, and you’ll have sites blocked just because of ISPs not liking them.
Good time to invest in VPN companies
All of our FTC investigations and antitrust suits will disappear.
Unlimited full fibre here in the rural nothern Highlands of Scotland for £35 per month.
Your internet seems similar to your politicians: useless and expensive.
that’s one hell of a free burn
I normally don’t like to admit this but you’re right. OP needs to move.
In all honesty and without any sarcasm that was obviously present in my previous comment, looking in at the US as an outsider, I don’t hold out much hope for America. It’s not just Team Trump, it’s the whole system. The previous lot weren’t much better (and often sometimes worse). Everything seems extremely polarised which will never pan out well. Big corporations seem to control everything (from internet and food to finance and pharma), there’s no free health care (a human right considered by many countries but viewed as communism by America). I could go on and on, but I would only sound unnecessarily negative. A good idea would be to get out and get off an obvious sinking ship. This is probably easier said than done, but there’s always a way. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not perfect elsewhere, but I think once the US collapses it’ll be a wake-up call for a lot of countries who will also have to adjust having relied so heavily on America through trade as well as culturally. If too big to fail was a real thing, then we wouldn’t have history books full of empires collapsing. With all sincerity, good luck.
The only hope I have is that the next generation will bring more love. There is a lot of disenfranchisement due to the changes over the last 40 years. The lasting effects of coal and steel work reduction, offshoring of jobs, minority rights improving, immigration changing demographics. All of these have been very strange and alarming for a lot of people my age and older. It’s all normal to my kids though.
You’re right tho. Empires rise and fall. The whole world is fucked if we’ve hit our peak.
Don’t the numbers indicate the opposite is happening. I fear for my children because I know they are loving and caring.
OP needs to move.
Unfortunately, most counties don’t want us Americans (and I don’t blame them).
Edit: Unless you’re rich that is.
I pay $70 a month for google fiber and it’s legit a thing that keeps me in the city I’m in because better is absolutely fucking rare.
This isn’t me trying to flex, this is me crying because I’d rather be in Scotland.
Weather’s shit a lot of the time here in Scotland.
Recently Highland & Lothian Broadband rolled out full fibre here in the Northern Highlands - the installation of which was government funded. I’m pretty rural so I grabbed the basic package at £35 per month (about $45) and it’s more than enough for my needs. However the top package 2000Mbps (up & down) will set you back £54.99 per month (approx’ $71), although that’s an introductory offer and goes up to £89.99 (approx’ $116) after 24 months. I can’t fault the service. No caps, no limits, router is modern with WiFi 6 although I ethernet most things using my old router as a switch. I also don’t seem to be blocked from any websites. My previous provider, BT Broadband, blocked me from The Pirate Bay requiring me to use a VPN. Not so with Highland Broadband. Straight in, no problems.
Mine is the basic package for the price I’m doing, so your system is still nice.
I’ll honestly take the weather being shit. I live where there is no chance in hell government will fund a thing and that was before the current election. And the weather here is humid as fuck with either 100 degrees F to Below 0 with the humidity being the only predictable thing, maybe a week of spring and fall each. Oh, and tornadoes.
Aye, people criticise the Scottish government but they have short memories. They forget what it was like before devolution and particularly prior to SNP rule. Labour and the Tories never gave a fuck about Scotland. They still don’t. The only sadness is that we never got full independence. Whilst there is indeed a lot to criticise with the SNP there’s also much that they have given us and making sure rural communities get decent internet access is just one of those things. Hell, my broadband is better up here than it was when I lived in the central belt. The National Health Service works better up here too, and free health with free prescriptions has got to be a good thing. Down in England they still have to pay for prescriptions. Honestly, I don’t understand why 55% voted to stay in the UK back in 2014. I guess it’s like people voting Trump - there’s just a lot of fucking dummies out there.
So the US did in fact have a process where the government did give money to get broadband to the rural. But as is the nature with this country, was not a federal workforce, but was a company based one. The companies pocketed the money, got a few people hooked up, sat on their asses, then when people complained at them years later they responded they didn’t have enough money to connect people.
And good lord I’d take English National Health Service over the US “pay an insurance company to argue why they shouldn’t pay for your healthcare”
I do have a question on the independence, over here in the states the conversation was that Scotland stayed because to break from UK would be requiring a separate entry into EU with a lot less benefits because England was one of the special ones. Always figured that Scotland might make another attempt after Brexit, is there something I missed? I admit y’alls politics I don’t quite get. Probably a lot like my talking individual state politics to you guys.
Scotland stayed in the UK because people bought into the fear-mongering being spread by the UK government. There were several fronts the UK targeted us with. Pensions was one (which scared all the old folks), currency was another (even though there was no real reason we couldn’t continue to use the pound). The economy was also targeted under the argument that we were too small a country to sustain ourselves, despite having a similar population size to Norway who survive extremely well as an independent nation. Between oil, tourism, gaming/tech industry, and whisky exports we could have not only survived but thrived. One other argument was that we’d have to reapply for entry into the EU and that staying in the UK guaranteed we’d remain in Europe, only for English voters to vote the UK out of the EU several years later. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU but it didn’t matter as it was a UK wide election, so basically we were told to shut the fuck up and put up. This should have been a significant change in circumstances that would trigger another independence referendum, but such referendums require UK parliament approval and the Tory scum wouldn’t let us hold one. Personally I would have been inclined to declare independence unilaterally, but given how 55% of the population were chicken-shits in 2014, it would be unlikely to happen. There’s also the cultural aspect that stops Scotland becoming independent. A large part of the population are Protestant and have been brainwashed through generations to believe in the laughable antiquated concept of King & Country. Basically Scotland has a long history of being kicked in the teeth by the English ruling class. So much so that many people have absolutely no confidence in self-determination or belief in their own ability to thrive and succeed. If only these people who feel that they need to be looked after would fuck off to the England they love so much, Scotland could move forward into the 21st century as a progressive, forward-thinking nation. Independence supporters always get labelled as rascist and anti-English, but the opposite is the truth. We’re welcoming to everyone who wants to make their home here and contribute to making the country a success - English, African, American, Chinese, whatever.
I really appreciate the dive into the politics there! As I talked with a coworker, to start understanding politics understanding historical context is important and I can keep some understanding with other countries, it’s hard enough to know the nuance of all of our states, figuring out how to get started with other countries is difficult so the primer really helps. Some of this sounds familiar over here on the antiquated thoughts driving politics that should have fallen by the wayside years ago, though I think a few of yours might be older than ours is. Friend visited the UK recently and traveled throughout, like I told him, I intellectually knew how old that area is but realizing that there were places that were historic before our country even existed is still kinda baffling. But I digress.
Having to do a dive into the Tories as I just knew them as your conservatives, it’s interesting that both the UK Conservative party and Scottish Conservatives definitely have a lot that I look at and go “That really does look like (Pre-Trump) Republicans” then every once in a while I see them supporting something that I realize if a Democrat would try to bring forward they’d be shouted down as being a communist. But what’s most fascinating dichotomy between our countries is your conservatives are staunchly fighting to keep the UK together, as you say wouldn’t allow you to hold a referendum after making you all leave the EU. Over in the States our Conservatives have gotten in bed with the US South which constantly yells about and threatens to secede again, and the Republican party is the one where you’re going to find the confederate (not the confederate, flag, Virigina Battle Flag but that’d involve them knowing their own ‘heritage’) flag all over the place so you could argue our conservatives are more seperationists. Growing up with this creates a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to be opposed to splitting, though like with the pulling out of the EU and as you described there’s actually a lot of ability to be successful to sustain yourselves that’s makes sense… vs our guys have the likes of most of our southern states who cry how much they hate the federal government, yet percentage-wise are some of our most reliant on federal funds.
France reporting, same price and that’s because I’m using the more expensive provider that is the most reliable in my rural area.
Our politicians are completely useless though.
Yeah, but yall are actually cool and bust out the guillotines every once in a while.
Turkey (Asia Minor) reporting, it’s 1 Gbps unlimited for $25.
Hardcore capitalism bangs you hardcore for even human-right level things. Health, education and infrastructure should be the State’s responsibility, subventions doesn’t cut it.
I think you just described the US as a whole.
I pay $79 AUD for 250Mb download / 20Mb upload.
And yet here I am in the USA with 8/8 Gbps fiber with no caps. Though I do pay $185 a month. I live in a Red state, and in a metro area, but not near the metro core, in unincorporated county land.
last 30 days stats to prove no caps:
What do you have for network equipment? I have 1G symmetrical unlimited, but anything faster seems to require a jump to much more expensive networking. And even then, most user equipment can’t support that
I have basically a full rack of equipment. Here’s the network side of it all. My desktop is 2 SPF+ fiber connections back to the core switch. Tons of stuff in my rack is all 10gbps or 40gbps.
Dual opnsense firewalls (top 2 slots, dual 40gbps connecting to core switches), though one is inactive until they let me buy static addresses. I run some business stuff on this. Boatloads of homelabbing and self-learning.
If you want to do full IPS/IDS, then yes you need some horsepower. But just connection with basic rules there’s plenty out there that’s not super expensive. Ubiquiti has their dream machine line which even the “cheap” $400 one can do 10gbps (2gbps with ips, or something like that. I dunno, I don’t keep tabs on them).
I didn’t stop any active connections/downloads happening on the network. I very likely had a gig of other stuff going elsewhere on the network.Their “smart-nid” is also a router… so that works too, but I don’t trust it and in my setup it’s in transparent mode.
Edit: Formatting sucked
Cool setup!
I’ve never had caps here in the US, and while my current internet is kinda slow (50/25), it’s because I deliberately chose a lower tier because we don’t actually need more. I could get gigabit (1000/500) for $75/month or 10G for $200/month, and my city is working w/ an org to build out muni fiber, which will probably cut costs a bit (and hopefully improve reliability, ours goes out like once/month for 15 min or so).
No. And I’m sorry to say, this administration is coming for social media as well. I hate watching the orange potato talk, and I dislike the individual who posted this, but unless you want to sit through a double long “reaction” vid by a youtuber who makes their living “reacting”, this is the shortest one.
He wants to gut moderation and make it so it requires a court order to remove any account from social media. There’s a lot to unpack here. It’s a scripted speech, illustrating the thinkers behind his administration this go. It talks about 1A, says everything in the speech is for 1A, including dumping the Hatch Act (keeps us safe at polling sites and makes buying votes illegal), but you should really listen to what he says about moderation of social media.
To me, it reads as a way of removing any anti-establishment, anti-MAGA spaces to talk without actually removing the spaces.
Echo chambering helps no one folks, I hate hearing him speak too, but you need to hear this one. https://youtu.be/xJfUXVOoFBo?si=pqphBah-_0YwW11V
Well, maybe now with a republican FCC
lol, no
Well, maybe now with a republican FCC
I’d be surprised if it even exists a year from now
Oh I expect it to. The FCC censors airwave transmissions
Damn that’s a spectre that I hadn’t even thought of yet.
The reds want to get rid if any agency that oritects us.
It doesn’t matter if you have 2 Gigabit internet if no one in the world is uploading even half that fast.
Just to point out something, yes, there may not be many services online (except torrents perhaps) that will max out your gigabit connection, but you are looking at it from the perspective of a single user. I’m in a family of four, also with a roommate in the house, and with everyone gaming and streaming and doing their thing, it can easily saturate it. We had to pay extra for no caps though or we’d be toast. They at least did offer that. Dicks.
Anyway the point of a high speed connection is to be able to do many things simultaneously, not really one giant thing by itself.
there may not be many services online (except torrents perhaps)
Hmm… arr, matey
Yo ho ho.
This is the USA, it’s all a pay-as-you-go country. You will be required to work yourself to death to be able to have anything nice at all. That’s the model. Corporations make the rules, the government will not help us. Economy, corporate profits and giving money to the wealthy are the priorities. Nothing else matters.
Some places have banned data caps, I live in one such place… And I think the FCC was looking for feedback on the hate of data caps… If you want change go out and make it
the FCC was looking for feedback on the hate of data caps
A Republican lead FCC (Ajit Pai or some other smug fuck) will never mobilize the FCC to curb unfair and unreasonable data caps.
That doesn’t mean they aren’t currently looking into it
FCC will now be led by Repubs, who like data caps, more mergers, not treating the Internet as a utility, blocking municipal networks, and ignore listening to public comment, and flood the zone with fake comments on issues that are popular.
The biggest expansion in fiber networks in the US was coming down the pipeline due to Biden’s infrastructure bills. The Republicans will do everything they can to slow and stop this money from its intended purpose.
Any hope of huge improvements in America’s internet infrastructure just went away with the Dem administration in order to improve ISP stock prices, meaning the Internet you are currently unhappy with will only get more expensive with less competition.
As intended, by how Americans voted.
Should be grateful for that and not something like Russia, with that level of political idiocy.
Comcast is still using Coax instead of Fiber Optic and desperately trying to convince people that somehow, someway coax can be just as good.
Comcast are starting to offer 2Gbps symmetric (same speed up and down) via DOCSIS 4.0 in some areas.
Yep. It’s pretty nuts how much they can push over copper. And remember that just having a coax cable at your house doesn’t mean it’s copper the whole way back to the ISP.
You’re right - upstream connections are usually fiber. In fact there’s a name for this type of network: HFC (hybrid fiber + coax)
Is it on coax or fiber? And do you still share that bandwidth with your neighbors?
The 2Gbps symmetric though Comcast is still cable. In theory, DOCSIS 4.0 supports up to 10Gbps down and 6Gbps up over cable, although real-world speeds are always lower than theoretical speeds.
You share bandwidth with your neighbours regardless of whether it’s coax or fiber. A common contention ratio for residential connections is between 40:1 and 50:1, meaning the bandwidth is shared between 40 and 50 people (i.e. 1Gbps of upstream bandwidth per 40-50 people with a 1Gbps connection). This is usually fine as it’s very unlikely that every customer will be using the full bandwidth at the same time. Residential usage is usually very spiky with only brief periods of high speed usage.
What about FTTH ?
I have a direct line from the DSLAM (?) to my apparent.
The bandwidth is still shared… It’d be prohibitively expensive to have dedicated bandwidth just for your connection, and most customers don’t need anywhere near that. Unlimited, dedicated 1Gbps is around 320TB of data per month.
A business-grade connection has fewer people sharing it, but it’s still shared. The only fully-dedicated connections are enterprise-grade connections (like in a data center), and even then it’s an upgrade that costs quite a bit. :)
Well it isn’t shared before the upstream server, that’s what FTTH is.
I’m seriosly interested in information supporting your claims, not because they are wrong (of course we share at a certain level, that’s the whole idea of the internet itself is) but because they are quite vague.
BTW for 40€ I get 10Gb/s symmetrical. I’m not in the US.
Well it isn’t shared before the upstream server, that’s what FTTH is.
FTTH just means that there’s fiber going into your house.
Most residential fiber internet connections use a technology called PON (GPON for gigabit or XGS-PON for 10Gbps). My understanding is that the fiber from your house goes into a splitter box in the street, which takes fiber connections from many customers (usually either 32 or 64 customers) and multiplexes them into a single fiber by either using different wavelengths of light or by time multiplexing. Upstream from this, bandwidth is shared.
Upstream from this is the internet, so it’s no longer shared (it goes wherever it wants to and it is the servers that are “shared” by users). So there might be a bottleneck in the “splitter box” but that’s it.
Docsis 4.0 is still cable, idk about other things
It’s totally possible! I live in CO and Comcast had a legal monopoly per state law. Nobody else is allowed to compete with their cable service. But you know what isn’t cable? Fiber! A local broadband company just installed fiber in my neighborhood this spring. I signed up for $89/mo gigabit service, no data cap, no installation fees at all. Between when I signed up and when they turned on service, they upgraded my service to 1.2 gigabit, same monthly price, no cap, no commitment, no upsell (their only other service is rural satellite Internet).
I talked to the technician installing it and he said they aren’t getting any subsidies from anyone. Not the city, state, or fed. It’s simply economically viable to run new gigabit fiber for $89/mo. All it takes is a company that can make the initial infrastructure investment.
I feel your pain, I was stuck with Cox for many years and was paying $170 a month for one gig down, 30 megs up. Unlimited data. But the unlimited data was a lie because they called and threatened me once because I was uploading too much, apparently uploading doesn’t count for the unlimited data. Stupid assholes.
I was fortunate enough to move recently to a house that actually had fiber. My fiber provider just raised the price of their lowest plan, which is the one I’m on, 500 Mbps symmetrical for $65 a month. It used to be $50 a month. However, they lowered the price of all their faster plans. If I wanted, I could get 8 gigs symmetrical for $150 a month. That’s less than I was paying for Cox just a year ago for 1 gig fake unlimited.
At my current provider, all their plans are truly unlimited, even the lowest tier one like the one I’m on.
$170 is fucking insane for internet. 😡
Ya their top tier plan was $150 for 1 Gig down 30 Mbps up, 1.25 TB data cap. You could pay an extra $20 a month for"unlimited " but they only allowed you to pay for “unlimited” on their top speed plan. Like I said their unlimited was also a straight up lie.
To be fair at that house I had roomates so we were all splitting it 4 ways.
Yeah, pretty much. The way the rest of the world deals with it is by splitting the infrastructure maintenance and retail sides to eliminate the profit incentive to not do maintenance.
You have a company who owns a/the fibre network in an area and is obligated by anti-monopoly rules to sell access to the network at the same rate and terms to anyone who wants it. They have a profit incentive to maintain the network to a reasonable standard because having a functioning network is how they make money. In a lot of places this wholesale provider will be at least part government owned given that the government usually pays a good chunk of the cost to build out large national infrastructure projects like fibre networks.
Separately, you have retail ISPs who buy access to the fibre network (or 4g, satellite, …) and sell it to the public along with value adds like tech support, IP addresses, peering agreement etc.
It’s never work in the US because holding private companies accountable for how they spend public money and maintaining well regulated competitive markets is communism or something.
It’s never work in the US because holding private companies accountable for how they spend public money and maintaining well regulated competitive markets is communism or something
It did work in the US for many years. During the 90’s the Internet was regulated like that. Phone lines, t1’s etc were infrastructure that the ilec was required to provide at the same cost to isps they used internally to sell service to consumers.
Then Bush came in and ruled that fiber and cable were immune from those common carrier laws.
Internet in NZ used to work a bit like the US does now with one large ISP that is also the network operator and gave exactly zero shits about quality of connections or internationally competitive pricing, except they got greedy and charged their retail arm half what they charged their competitors. Anti-monopoly folks got very pissy about this and managed to get the largest fine permitted by law, forced them to split their wholesale arm off into a separate company, banned them from tendering on the government-funded fibre network (which cost them literally billions of dollars) and then changed the law so that if they did it again there wouldn’t be a cap on the penalty they could impose.
In 20 years we went from ~35th of the 38 OECD countries in internet speed and accessibility to 9th. Markets only work long-term if you actually regulate them
This is exactly how my local municipal fiber network works. The the county owns, and builds put, the fiber network and maintains it, selling network access to local ISPs who sell to customers.
Only shitty part is that if you want to have a connection built out that isn’t on their plan, you have to fund the fiber run to you from wherever the nearest spot is, and that can be many thousands of dollars.
I imagine if we expanded the program like you’re talking about in the rest of the world, we could actually run it fine, like, we have the ability to… It’s just that the people in power are fucking awful.
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