Crying wolf…again. The guy in the comic has to specify “literally a nazi” because using the regular word’s meaning has been diluted so he has to put emphasis to specify it’s a “true” nazi, not just a “vague” nazi.
Yes it’s frustrating red shirt won’t turn around to see that it is in fact a true, no shit, actual, factual, punchable, dictionary definition of a nazi but that’s because the word has been overused. Your reply is proof.
WOah woah wOAH, YOU CaN’t be USinG leVelHEAdEDNEsS and logIC HeRe On lEMMY! How Dare yOu!
WE’RE ovER herE Trying TO larp thAt eVeryONE wE CALl A NAzi IS a LegiTImaTE, GeRmaN-GrowN, ArmbanD-weaRIng aCtuaL nAzi, EvEn THough thEY said SOmeThiNg INnoCuOUs lIKE THeY don’T lIKe SEx gEaR ON dISplaY IN PARAdES!
HoLd oN wHilE I gRaB My LiSt Of *pHoBe TerMs I cAn CaLL YoU!
If people have been previously calling other people nazis excessively (i have seen people call a huge part of lemmy fascists), it doesnt mean anything the next time someone says there is a nazi
I know, it’s the response from red shirt. He doesn’t listen to the guy calling out the nazi, explaining how it’s probably just overexaggeration.
It’s similar to the ending of the boy who cried wolf. It’s not that most people like wolves, or side with wolves, or think wolves aren’t a threat. It’s the person that that yells wolf is ignored when the real deal comes around.
I don’t like nazis. At all. But there is certainly an argument that the term had been used too loosely (I was just called one in this comment section ffs) and now people are making nazi salutes in DC and are being ignored.
Jon Stewart called out the dilution of labels like racist etc in his closing speech of the 2010 Rally to Restore Sanity. It was a problem all the way back then.
By the time you started yelling about the real dangers, the boy who cried first had already came and went. The sheep were fine. The boy grew up, got a decent paying job amd moved out of the state. Another boy came by yelling the same thing. Still no wolves. Sheep still fine. Repeat more times than you can count.
It’s not your fault, but it’s stupid as hell to pretend that people didn’t start taking those labels less seriously due to overuse.
No we all said watch the fuck out the nazis are buying up everything and even wrote a nazi playbook. The fuckin wolf was real all along. Fucking morons just decided to ignore. The boy lied in the story. He didn’t lie here.
You personally? Sure. But there have been people online misusing the word (and similar things) for fucking ages, going back at least as far as 2010.
This goes back a lot farther than the last election campaign, farther back than Trump’s first “reign”, farther back than his first campaign even.
Background on Jon Stewart for those unaware of him
Jon Stewart has been out of the public eye for a long time, so I expect there’s some people around unaware of his work. Did a comedy news show for years where he tore into the bullshit going on in the world, in the news, and in news orgs like Fox hiding behind a false “both sides” narrative back when they still cared enough to fake it. He got Crossfire cancelled when they were stupid enough to invite him on for an interview and were shocked that he wasn’t willing to be a comedian on a show that claimed to be real news and he instead systematically and thoroughly called them out as the travesty they were.
Jon Fucking Stewart called out the dilution of labels through overuse in his closing speech at the Rally to Restore Sanity in 2010. The rally done as a reaction to the Tea Party rally in D.C.
That is to highlight that the “boy who cried wolf” shit was happening all the way back then and was already a big problem.
“If we amplify everything we hear nothing. There are terrorists and racists and Stalinists and theocrats but those are titles that must be earned. You must have the resume. Not being able to distinguish between real racists and Tea Partiers or real bigots and Juan Williams and Rick Sanchez is an insult, not only to those people but to the racists themselves who have put in the exhausting effort it takes to hate–just as the inability to distinguish terrorists from Muslims makes us less safe not more. The press is our immune system. If we overreact to everything we actually get sicker–and perhaps eczema.”
People didn’t get the fucking message, which gave cover for the real racists and nazis to slither around and significantly helped to get us where we are today.
Where an over rich manchild clearly on some sort of substances can give two half assed sieg heils, and then follow it up with the most half assed excuse during a fucking presidential inauguration and instead of being tackled by security and hauled the fuck off never to be seen again, people are sitting around giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Not saying they never existed or they weren’t a problem. I’m trying to emphasize that overuse of those labels towards the undeserving has allowed the true problem people (actual nazis, fascists) to get by with the benefit of the doubt.
Look, at this point I’m not sure what to say except to lean back on lived experiences of myself and a number of friends.
Some specific “my friend is black” style examples from my social group, if you’ll pardon me:
racial/ethnic minority who is also lgbt+
one of the most politically active people I know, involved in countless public works and community supporting projects, who at one point worked teaching kids stuck in juvie skills they could use to make money legally once released
union organizer and rep, can’t even drop that shit for a game of DnD, sidetracking the plot to try and unionize side characters
multiple and diverse PoC
I’ve seen each individual there and people like them, be called all sorts of horrible labels (mainly online) that do not fit them or even the worst possible interpretation of the opinion they were espousing at the time. I’ve seen them called capitalist bootlickers, nazis, racists.
One who was only stopped from joining the US Antifa movement by being overseas taking classes in Australia called a fascist.
African American man who grew up in the roughest schools in our state be called a fucking white supremacist for talking about issues in the black community.
Gay men be called homophobes.
Lesbians active in the local LGBT+ community, who provided safe housing and care for a FtM after his top surgery, and who forced a local highschool to offer legally required support services for an ASD genderfluid student, called transphobes.
Again, the wolves absolutely fucking exist, have existed for a long time, and there have been plenty of people shouting about them. But there have been even more, louder, people jumping at shadows for just as long.
Doing the equivalent of “Well it’s your fault for not heeding our warnings!” is short sighted, ignores lived experiences from a wide variety of people, and most importantly does absolutely nothing for positive change in the current scenario.
You can’t just keep going “I told you so!” or “nuh uh!” at people and expect to gain allies.
I get the frustration, but save that energy for the real targets. Attacking our own for not being as prescient as some others is wasted effort and furthers the goals of those in power.
Aknowledging that there is a reasonable explanation for why people don’t take these labels seriously doesn’t lose you anything. It gives you extra knowledge amd understanding that can be used for more effective forward momentum.
Don’t just call Elon a nazi. Anyone who could be convinced by those words alone already has been.
This people we said where moving towards nazism are now doing Nazi salutes.
Clearly it is our fault for being smart enough to see what was happening and sounding the alarm!
It’s take a true smooth brain to always find the way to blame the intellectuals for their own abhorent behavior.
I’m guessing the next stage here is blaming us for why you and them became Nazi. We clearly gave you no other choice. You and them are the real victims here.
Someone who got dangerously close to winning an election claimed the founder of a fascist party and a fascist dictator (both helped cause the Holocaust in Romania ) were national heroes
A nazi salute would be a step backwards. We are already there
No, he’s still wrong. Even if he has been conditioned to ignore the term because of overuse of the term, he’s still wrong.
The people who ignored the boy the third time he cried wolf were wrong. The proof they were wrong is that they lost their sheep. The moral of the story isn’t “don’t listen when little boys cry wolf three times and the first two times turn out to be false.” The moral is “don’t cry wolf when there is no wolf or people will stop listening to you.”
So you can argue that the people who conditioned red shirt not too look were wrong, i.e. “the boy who cried Nazi”, but in this case red shirt is most definitely wrong.
Yeah. I’m ignoring the strawman part of the argument that the people calling wolf for the past 80 years were always lying, since it doesn’t affect red shirt’s wrongness.
That is exactly what I am trying to convey, thank you.
Red shirt is wrong for ignoring the pointing person. The person pointing out the nazi is right. I am trying to argue that the person pointing out the nazi and the people who conditioned red shirt to the point of ignoring a legitimate cry are not the same and ultimately did not help things.
Do you think it plausible that actual white supremacist Neo Nazis might call other people Nazis, despite being fully aware that they are not, simply to further muddle the issue? A sort of, “I know you are, but what am I?” defense, that most of us master somewhere in early childhood?
Yeah I get that they would try to make noise to hide in. But I imagine that is not the majority of cases where someone is labeled as a nazi. Note this was from 2010, long before Trump entered politics.
And this isn’t to say I like, support or side with them it’s just people ignore the term after a while of hearing it everywhere for all kinds of things that don’t fit
It hasn’t lost its effect. It never had an effect to begin with on the people that this cunt was sieg heiling because they are happy to downplay the very real and very obvious fascist elements of the American right. Saying the word Nazi has lost its effect makes this sound like the issue is one of semantics, as though if that word hadn’t (wholly and justifiably) been used so much in recent decades that people would now wake up and go, ‘Oh fuck, this guy is actually really bad’. But they wouldn’t. Because fascists don’t think other fascists are bad.
The joke is exactly that the “argument” you’re using has been abused to such a point by American “centrists” and the even more far right types that per their definition the only possible way to be a Nazi is to have been a member of the National Socialist Party Of The German Worker during the period when it was committing the Holocaust.
You saw a lot of this shit from, for example, supporters of Zionism, and now you’re seeing an even more ridiculous version of it from far-right muppets trying to excuse Elon’s looks-like-Hitler’s repeated salute as not Nazi.
Normal people who are not arguing in bad faith will have a definition for the threshold of when a person, party or nation’s actions might be considered as Nazism which is far less restricted than “only those who were the murderers in the Holocaust qualify”.
It’s sad but he’s not wrong. Nazi has been used on so many people I’ve lost count and people wonder why it has lost effect
Removed by mod
Proof? Or is disagreement with you enough?
Crying wolf…again. The guy in the comic has to specify “literally a nazi” because using the regular word’s meaning has been diluted so he has to put emphasis to specify it’s a “true” nazi, not just a “vague” nazi.
Yes it’s frustrating red shirt won’t turn around to see that it is in fact a true, no shit, actual, factual, punchable, dictionary definition of a nazi but that’s because the word has been overused. Your reply is proof.
WOah woah wOAH, YOU CaN’t be USinG leVelHEAdEDNEsS and logIC HeRe On lEMMY! How Dare yOu!
WE’RE ovER herE Trying TO larp thAt eVeryONE wE CALl A NAzi IS a LegiTImaTE, GeRmaN-GrowN, ArmbanD-weaRIng aCtuaL nAzi, EvEn THough thEY said SOmeThiNg INnoCuOUs lIKE THeY don’T lIKe SEx gEaR ON dISplaY IN PARAdES!
HoLd oN wHilE I gRaB My LiSt Of *pHoBe TerMs I cAn CaLL YoU!
The image depicts a guy in a nazi unform, doing a nazi salute. It’s a nazi.
Not only that, but the guy wearing the uniform (god knows what for) is talking to someone. Presumably a friend, which means he is also a Nazi!
The guy being warned over? Also a Nazi!
The guy warning the other? Also a Nazi for not stepping up and actually doing something!
The guy drawing attention and propaganda to the Nazis through rendering in comic form? You guessed it, also a Nazi!
The guy sharing said propaganda here? Also a Nazi!
The ones discussing it instead of actually doing something about it? Nazis as well.
The mods that allowed it on Lemmy? Bunch of Nazis!
I’d continue but I am willing to bet you did not see that coming
If people have been previously calling other people nazis excessively (i have seen people call a huge part of lemmy fascists), it doesnt mean anything the next time someone says there is a nazi
I know, it’s the response from red shirt. He doesn’t listen to the guy calling out the nazi, explaining how it’s probably just overexaggeration.
It’s similar to the ending of the boy who cried wolf. It’s not that most people like wolves, or side with wolves, or think wolves aren’t a threat. It’s the person that that yells wolf is ignored when the real deal comes around.
I don’t like nazis. At all. But there is certainly an argument that the term had been used too loosely (I was just called one in this comment section ffs) and now people are making nazi salutes in DC and are being ignored.
This isn’t a case of the boy crying wolf. You fucks have been warned and have ignored the warnings. Now here we are.
What about people calling anyone who disagrees with them or any mod that bans them nazis?
Usually theyre right
Found another Nazi!
Jon Stewart called out the dilution of labels like racist etc in his closing speech of the 2010 Rally to Restore Sanity. It was a problem all the way back then.
By the time you started yelling about the real dangers, the boy who cried first had already came and went. The sheep were fine. The boy grew up, got a decent paying job amd moved out of the state. Another boy came by yelling the same thing. Still no wolves. Sheep still fine. Repeat more times than you can count.
It’s not your fault, but it’s stupid as hell to pretend that people didn’t start taking those labels less seriously due to overuse.
You were called a nazi because its 36 and youre waffling about what is and isnt a nazi
No we all said watch the fuck out the nazis are buying up everything and even wrote a nazi playbook. The fuckin wolf was real all along. Fucking morons just decided to ignore. The boy lied in the story. He didn’t lie here.
You personally? Sure. But there have been people online misusing the word (and similar things) for fucking ages, going back at least as far as 2010.
This goes back a lot farther than the last election campaign, farther back than Trump’s first “reign”, farther back than his first campaign even.
Background on Jon Stewart for those unaware of him
Jon Stewart has been out of the public eye for a long time, so I expect there’s some people around unaware of his work. Did a comedy news show for years where he tore into the bullshit going on in the world, in the news, and in news orgs like Fox hiding behind a false “both sides” narrative back when they still cared enough to fake it. He got Crossfire cancelled when they were stupid enough to invite him on for an interview and were shocked that he wasn’t willing to be a comedian on a show that claimed to be real news and he instead systematically and thoroughly called them out as the travesty they were.
Jon Fucking Stewart called out the dilution of labels through overuse in his closing speech at the Rally to Restore Sanity in 2010. The rally done as a reaction to the Tea Party rally in D.C.
That is to highlight that the “boy who cried wolf” shit was happening all the way back then and was already a big problem.
People didn’t get the fucking message, which gave cover for the real racists and nazis to slither around and significantly helped to get us where we are today.
Where an over rich manchild clearly on some sort of substances can give two half assed sieg heils, and then follow it up with the most half assed excuse during a fucking presidential inauguration and instead of being tackled by security and hauled the fuck off never to be seen again, people are sitting around giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Nazis, fascists, ect were a problem as early as 2010. All the people who are doing nazi shit now, i grew up with them, they were always like that
Not saying they never existed or they weren’t a problem. I’m trying to emphasize that overuse of those labels towards the undeserving has allowed the true problem people (actual nazis, fascists) to get by with the benefit of the doubt.
Look, at this point I’m not sure what to say except to lean back on lived experiences of myself and a number of friends.
Some specific “my friend is black” style examples from my social group, if you’ll pardon me:
I’ve seen each individual there and people like them, be called all sorts of horrible labels (mainly online) that do not fit them or even the worst possible interpretation of the opinion they were espousing at the time. I’ve seen them called capitalist bootlickers, nazis, racists.
One who was only stopped from joining the US Antifa movement by being overseas taking classes in Australia called a fascist.
African American man who grew up in the roughest schools in our state be called a fucking white supremacist for talking about issues in the black community.
Gay men be called homophobes.
Lesbians active in the local LGBT+ community, who provided safe housing and care for a FtM after his top surgery, and who forced a local highschool to offer legally required support services for an ASD genderfluid student, called transphobes.
Again, the wolves absolutely fucking exist, have existed for a long time, and there have been plenty of people shouting about them. But there have been even more, louder, people jumping at shadows for just as long.
Doing the equivalent of “Well it’s your fault for not heeding our warnings!” is short sighted, ignores lived experiences from a wide variety of people, and most importantly does absolutely nothing for positive change in the current scenario.
You can’t just keep going “I told you so!” or “nuh uh!” at people and expect to gain allies.
I get the frustration, but save that energy for the real targets. Attacking our own for not being as prescient as some others is wasted effort and furthers the goals of those in power.
Aknowledging that there is a reasonable explanation for why people don’t take these labels seriously doesn’t lose you anything. It gives you extra knowledge amd understanding that can be used for more effective forward momentum.
Don’t just call Elon a nazi. Anyone who could be convinced by those words alone already has been.
Do something like link this comparison gif:
and approach from a different angle.
This people we said where moving towards nazism are now doing Nazi salutes.
Clearly it is our fault for being smart enough to see what was happening and sounding the alarm!
It’s take a true smooth brain to always find the way to blame the intellectuals for their own abhorent behavior.
I’m guessing the next stage here is blaming us for why you and them became Nazi. We clearly gave you no other choice. You and them are the real victims here.
Moving towards nazisn?
Someone who got dangerously close to winning an election claimed the founder of a fascist party and a fascist dictator (both helped cause the Holocaust in Romania ) were national heroes
A nazi salute would be a step backwards. We are already there
Bullshit. We’ve been calling so many people Nazis precisely because they actually turned out to be Nazis. Every single fucking one of them.
If you didn’t see it, it’s because you were deliberately turning a blind eye.
No, he’s still wrong. Even if he has been conditioned to ignore the term because of overuse of the term, he’s still wrong.
The people who ignored the boy the third time he cried wolf were wrong. The proof they were wrong is that they lost their sheep. The moral of the story isn’t “don’t listen when little boys cry wolf three times and the first two times turn out to be false.” The moral is “don’t cry wolf when there is no wolf or people will stop listening to you.”
So you can argue that the people who conditioned red shirt not too look were wrong, i.e. “the boy who cried Nazi”, but in this case red shirt is most definitely wrong.
Except there were wolves the whole time. Tf does the boy do when there is actually a wolf the whole time and noone believes him?
Yeah. I’m ignoring the strawman part of the argument that the people calling wolf for the past 80 years were always lying, since it doesn’t affect red shirt’s wrongness.
That is exactly what I am trying to convey, thank you.
Red shirt is wrong for ignoring the pointing person. The person pointing out the nazi is right. I am trying to argue that the person pointing out the nazi and the people who conditioned red shirt to the point of ignoring a legitimate cry are not the same and ultimately did not help things.
Do you think it plausible that actual white supremacist Neo Nazis might call other people Nazis, despite being fully aware that they are not, simply to further muddle the issue? A sort of, “I know you are, but what am I?” defense, that most of us master somewhere in early childhood?
Yeah I get that they would try to make noise to hide in. But I imagine that is not the majority of cases where someone is labeled as a nazi. Note this was from 2010, long before Trump entered politics.
And this isn’t to say I like, support or side with them it’s just people ignore the term after a while of hearing it everywhere for all kinds of things that don’t fit
It hasn’t lost its effect. It never had an effect to begin with on the people that this cunt was sieg heiling because they are happy to downplay the very real and very obvious fascist elements of the American right. Saying the word Nazi has lost its effect makes this sound like the issue is one of semantics, as though if that word hadn’t (wholly and justifiably) been used so much in recent decades that people would now wake up and go, ‘Oh fuck, this guy is actually really bad’. But they wouldn’t. Because fascists don’t think other fascists are bad.
The joke is exactly that the “argument” you’re using has been abused to such a point by American “centrists” and the even more far right types that per their definition the only possible way to be a Nazi is to have been a member of the National Socialist Party Of The German Worker during the period when it was committing the Holocaust.
You saw a lot of this shit from, for example, supporters of Zionism, and now you’re seeing an even more ridiculous version of it from far-right muppets trying to excuse Elon’s looks-like-Hitler’s repeated salute as not Nazi.
Normal people who are not arguing in bad faith will have a definition for the threshold of when a person, party or nation’s actions might be considered as Nazism which is far less restricted than “only those who were the murderers in the Holocaust qualify”.