Argentina's president says he has banned gender-affirming care for people under age 18. A presidential spokesperson said Wednesday the government was repealing a 2012 gender identity law provision allowing such practices with parental or guardian consent.
  • UrPartnerInCrimeEnglish
    57·
    1 hour ago

    Ok call me a bad guy about what follows, but I’ve been thinking a bit about this lately and I think I agree with this call. We don’t let children make the “adult” decisions until they’re either 18 or 21 in most places. We all may know a kids going to go nowhere in life and probably be a alcoholic later in life, but we don’t give them alcohol now cause their brain is still developing.

    Once your brain is developed? Go right ahead and do whatever you want. But until your brain is mostly done growing it’s up to adults to protect children from those decisions. And unfortunately this is one of those decisions IMHO.

    But like growing up as a straight dude I wanted bigger muscles, like another foot of height, and a dick that would make anyone jealous. Which all that would have made me feel the way I wanted, but no sane adult would actually take me serious if I asked. Now that I’m older I can do all those things and that’d be my perogative, but it’s no longer necessary cause I love me for who I am. Which I only got there cause no adult would make me into a super human freak of a man at the age or 14.

    So like, dress and act how you want, but actual genderaffirming care should be left till at least on can have a drink over it first.

    Edit: this is even more fucked, but like if I hypothetically had a teenage girl and she came up to me and asked for gender affirming care so she could have bigger boobs or whatever I would never let her, but I’m supposed to allow my hypothetical teenage son decide to have boobs?

    Edit edit: If my hypothetical teenage son just wants to be the most alpha male he can be, I’m i supposed to just pump him full of testosterone so I’m a good parent?

    • Ellvix@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      4 minutes ago

      You’re not a bad guy, but this is kind of a bad faith argument, saying that a 14yo not being comfortable with their gender is just a phase they’ll grow out of (like any other stupid kid / teenager phase). Does it happen? sure, of course it does. But it’s not ‘just a phase’ for the VAST majority of trans pre adults. If you’re scared that someone will change their mind and keep them from doing anything until 18, then they get hit with full wrong gender puberty and change their bodies in ways they can’t undo. Most of the older trans women I know transitioned in adulthood, and it sucks to say but they still sound like a dude talking. They hate it. They wish so bad they could have been allowed to do this as early as possible. They knew exactly what was going on, but had to wait. It’s up to parents to know their kids and say are you sure? are you SURE? REALLY? yeah? ok cool let’s do this then. Why make them suffer longer?

    • Dasus@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11·
      1 hour ago

      Just FYI, most “gender-affirming surgery” in the below 18 group is males having their moobs removed because male boobs are usually a source of social problems like being bullied in school. This will mostly affect straight young cis men if we’re going purely by the numbers.

      So like, be as bigoted as you want, but don’t pretend to be informed on the subject just because you feel like jumping on the right wing bandwagon.

      • UrPartnerInCrimeEnglish
        15·
        1 hour ago

        Really? Cause most people I’ve seen defend it, even in this thread, have been about hormone blockers and whatnot

        • Dasus@lemmy.worldEnglish
          4·
          1 hour ago

          On a statistical basis, really.

          Trans people are a small minority compared to fat teenage boys.

          Obviously this is aimed against trans people, so there’s a clear difference in how it’s received and it clearly affects trans people more politically, but according to numbers most gender affirming surgeries are indeed on cis males.

          Of gender-affirming surgical procedures identified among adults and minors, 1591 of 2664 (59.7%) and 82 of 85 (96.4%) were chest-related procedures, respectively. Of the 636 breast reductions among cisgender male and TGD adults, 507 (80%) were performed on cisgender males. Of the 151 breast reductions among cisgender male minors and TGD minors, 146 (97%) were performed on cisgender male minors

          https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11211955/

          Puberty blockers are maybe considered gender affirming care legally, idk, but technically it’s the opposite of affirming. You can’t use puberty blockers forever afaik, but you can use them to delay your decision possible gender affirming care until you’re ready to make the decision. And with that sort of use, they’ve proven to be quite safe and effective.

          • UrPartnerInCrimeEnglish
            14·
            1 hour ago

            Wow thanks for just straight up calling me fat.

            And I’m the bad person.

            But like, it doesn’t matter where you draw the line in gender affirming care definitions, but by the definition were going on based on this thread it includes hormone blockers.

            • Dasus@lemmy.worldEnglish
              3·
              54 minutes ago

              How on Earth did I call you fat by pointing out that cis-males with obesity issues are far more common than trans people?

              Guess you’ve some confidence to work on buddy, as talking about you didn’t even cross my mind. I pointed out a fact about gender-affirming care. Honestly, I assume that people are more or less closer to my age on Lemmy, so I genuinely didn’t consider that you might be actually a minor looking to get themselves some gender affirming care.

              Yeah, puberty blockers are probably considered gender affirming care, but them not being included is just me being pedantic about the name. I guess “care which affirms your position of not being sure about your gender identity yet until you’re old enough to make one”.

              • UrPartnerInCrimeEnglish
                14·
                49 minutes ago

                Do you even read what your typing? or do you just get off on being a dick?

                • Dasus@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  2·
                  42 minutes ago

                  Excuse me?

                  You’re saying gender affirming care shouldn’t exist for minors despite not knowing the facts then when the facts are pointed out, you start screaming about me calling you fat.

                  Get off your high horse.

                  How is you supporting right wing policies being less of a dick than me pointing out your support of right wing policies, which might be because you don’t understand all the facts, not because you actually support the right, which is why I pointed out the facts which you took personal offense at?

      • UrPartnerInCrimeEnglish
        11·
        10 minutes ago

        But where do you draw the line of gender affirming care?

        Is giving a teenage boy a bigger dick gender affirming care, and therefore essential medical care? What about a girl who’s flat chested wanting bigger boobs? I know it’s weird to ask and I do feel kinda gross but yeah. Is that too far? What about an athlete who wants to take steroids cause it would help them achieve their ideal body?

        I’m genuinely not trying to be rude. I just, if you give the life altering drugs to one group of kids, where do you draw the line? What about kids who clearly need to hit a joint and chill but it’s illegal cause they’re underage? I don’t think it’s fair to give one group more privileges regardless of how they feel.

    • phdepressedEnglish
      4·
      50 minutes ago

      1. gender reassignment surgery is not done on minors with the exception of intersex babies(which itself is questionable ethics). Minors can and often do get a tattoos with parental approval.

      2. They can also get psychological counciling and be referred to as a preferred name. These count as gender affirming care.

      3. How is this affecting you? Why do you care what someone else does to their body?

    • hungryphrog@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      151·
      2 hours ago

      “cut their dick off” yeah that’s exactly what gender affirming care is. This isn’t about surgery, it’s about HRT and puberty blockers, and the regret rates for all of those things are super low. Besides, there is already an epidemic of trans suicides. Do I need to repeat that? People are killing themselves because of transphobia, and yes, detransitioners exist, but most people don’t regret getting gender reaffirming care, and again, this is about HRT and puberty blockers, not just surgery.

    • Dasus@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      1 hour ago

      You mean how in the US they literally mutilate the genitalia of a majority of male children as soon as they are born and how no-one is doing anything about it?

      I agree. That should be illegal.

      Those babies can’t possibly consent to having their prepuces removed. Forced genital mutilation. Fucking disgusting.

    • lka1988English
      92·
      2 hours ago

      Nobody is doing that. “Gender-affirming care” also includes giving hormone blockers to a kid who started puberty way too early.