cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/26184252
The former head of Kazakhstan’s intelligence service, Alnur Mussayev, recently claimed in a Facebook post that Donald Trump was recruited by the KGB in 1987, when the 40-year-old real-estate mogul first visited Moscow.
The allegation would, if true, be a bombshell. Mussayev provides no documentary evidence —but then how could he? He alleged that Trump’s file is in Vladimir Putin’s hands.
Mussayev isn’t the only ex-KGB officer to have made such an assertion. Several years ago, Yuri Shvets, a former KGB major now resident in Washington, D.C., served as one of the key sources for Craig Unger’s best-selling book, “American Kompromat: How the KGB Cultivated Donald Trump, and Related Tales of Sex, Greed, Power, and Treachery.”
Just after Mussayev made his claim, another ex-KGB officer living in France, Sergei Zhyrnov, categorically endorsed the allegations in an interview with a Ukrainian journalist. According to Zhyrnov, Trump would have been surrounded 24/7 by KGB operatives, including everyone from his cab driver to the maid servicing his hotel room. Zhyrnov said that Trump’s every move would have been recorded and documented, and that he could have been either caught in a “honey trap” (“All foreign-currency prostitutes were KGB — one hundred percent,” he said) or perhaps recorded bribing Moscow city officials in order to promote his idea of building a hotel in the Soviet capital.
None of these former KGB operatives has provided evidence, but the fact that three KGB agents located in different places and speaking at different times agree on the story suggests this possibility should not be dismissed out of hand. If there’s one thing we’ve learned from the first Trump administration and from the initial weeks of the second, it is that everything, including what appears to be impossible, is possible.
Also lending credence to the allegations is the fact that kompromat on Trump would easily, simply and convincingly explain the president’s animus toward NATO, Europe and Ukraine, his admiration of Vladimir Putin and his endorsement of authoritarian rule. One could even invoke “Occam’s razor,” the philosophical principle that claims that simple explanations should be preferred to complex ones.
We could then dispense with contorted explanations that focus on Trump’s mercurial and narcissistic personality on the one hand and American party realignments on the other. Indeed, even if true, these explanations could be accommodated as bells and whistles adorning the central narrative propounded by three KGB agents.
Naturally, Trump and his supporters will bristle. Surely, the three KGB agents are on somebody’s payroll. Who wouldn’t want to discredit the U.S. president? It could be the CIA or FBI, except that these are now firmly in the hands of Trump loyalists. Besides, would they have the ability to buy or coerce residents of Kazakhstan and France? Ditto for other Western intelligence services.
Perhaps it’s Putin? But he surely has no interest in undermining a president who supports his policies toward Ukraine, NATO and Europe.
Somewhat more plausible would be an officer or officers within the Russian intelligence community who oppose Putin and Trump’s designs. This version seems unlikely, but only at first glance, since we know that Putin’s seemingly impregnable regime is actually riven with cracks.
But why would a clandestine opposition make up a story and convince Shvets to spill the beans several years ago? Wouldn’t the dissidents know it’s true?
Perhaps all three ex-KGB agents are simply lying, in the hope of attracting attention and bolstering their fame? A resident of Washington might have this motive, but a Kazakh and Frenchman?
What leads me to think that there might be something to the allegations is the fact that an acquaintance had a very similar experience at just the same time. A left-leaning ladies’ man, he was wined and dined in Moscow for several years in the late 1980s, courted by the ladies — by his round-the-clock interpreter, as well as by a woman who approached him in a department store and invited him home.
We’ll probably never know the truth. But even with no slam-dunk evidence, the allegations should be, to say the least, disturbing, especially for the genuine patriots in the MAGA camp.
The part that doesn’t make sense to me is that Trump is transactional and turns his back on people once he gets what he wants. So why does he care about Russia anymore? They got him the presidency with their misinformation already.
For a long time the Italian mob was in control of the construction industry in NYC. They started getting prosecuted/whacked which weakened their position. The Russian mob wanted in on it, and would probably give Trump favorable construction deals if he helped them out. The late 80s in the USSR were really bad, so the KGB would probably have organized crime contacts.
Once the USSR collapsed those guys basically took over the country, and are the oligarchs that prop Putin up. Having a wealthy, famous “business man” in NYC to help them make money would be great. And Trump would be able to undercut people on cost thanks to favorable construction contracts.
Which sucks because as bad as the Italian mafia was they at least hated fascists. The US government even got them to provide security at US ports during WWII.
Russians will expose Trump or kill him or someone in his family if he doesn’t tow the line.
I think sees himself as invincible (hence his reactions after the assassination attempts), and honestly… I really don’t think he gives much of a fuck about his kids (though he’d like to give some to one of them).
Its not just money and power he wants. Read May Trump’s book and you’ll learn his father was a psychopath who verbally berated his older brother Fred (Mary’s father) so much so that Fred found comfort in alcohol and died young. Young Donald learned to identify with the aggressor in order to win his father’s regard. To my mind, Putin reminds Trump of his father and he wants to please his father.
That might help explain his love affair with the other worlds fascists. I still have trouble understanding why he likes them enough to endanger himself/his power, but it’s very possible he’s just that stupid.
Because he still owes them tons of money, he’s selling them classified info, and he’s been laundering theor money for decades? Putin has his balls firmly and ain’t letting go
surprise to no-one but conservatives, hes well known to have worked with them since the 80s, and the casinos was thier main way of laundering money.
I remember during the 2016 election Trump would say things that has only ever been on RT. I would see one or two articles about it being odd that his talking point were word for word from RT, at times, but it never broke though to mainstream news and no one pushed the journalism further.
It was an open secret in New York City. Don Jr. openly boasted that daddy was in bed with the Russian banks.
None of these former KGB operatives has provided evidence, but the fact that three KGB agents located in different places and speaking at different times agree on the story suggests this possibility should not be dismissed out of hand. If there’s one thing we’ve learned from the first Trump administration and from the initial weeks of the second, it is that everything, including what appears to be impossible, is possible.
Back in the 1980s Trump was a rich, obvious narcissist who loved being the center of attention, took pride in his sexual conquests, liked younger girls (and bragged about it) and eastern European women, and was easily flattered and manipulated. In the late 1980s he overreached financially and got himself in trouble, so he would have had big debts. He had dodgy connections in NY and NJ and was prominent in American business circles. He had political ambitions and connections and was famous and influential. And he was visiting Moscow and trying to get some business going over there (why?), so he was ready to take Russian money to fund his ventures.
Is there anything about that that wouldn’t absolutely scream “recruit this guy” to the KGB? The journalist talks as if this is a bit of an out-there suggestion, but it would actually be very surprising if they hadn’t at least attempted to recruit him. And the KGB wouldn’t do that by asking nicely: they’d find a way to gradually hook you in so you couldn’t say no. There was no shortage of ways to do this with Trump. So they probably at least tried.
And then do we think Trump would have been the kind of guy to make a principled stand, or to be smart enough to recognize what’s happening and not take the bait? He’s exactly the kind of guy who goes with whoever offers him the sweetest deal in the short term. You make him feel like he’s winning, he’s smart and great at business, all the while documenting his every compromising move, and only later does he realize that he’s trapped. But then you say, go back to the USA and continue your life as before. We’ll help you in business and politics, you can have a successful life, everything will be good, and we’ll let you know when you can help us.
So I disagree with the author that this is in any way an implausible suggestion. It seems far more implausible that the KGB would have decided not to try to recruit Trump, or that they would have failed in their attempt. The most likely thing is that Trump was recruited by the KGB, and we know that after the collapse of the USSR he took a lot of money from wealthy Russians, and sold real estate in deals that look a lot like money laundering, to Russians. How plausible is it that none of this was ex-KGB Putin or his allies ensuring that Trump stayed hooked in case he came in useful?
And then we know the Russians helped him in 2016 and everything Trump has done while President has been conspicuously well aligned with Putin’s interests. Is it more likely this is all one big coincidence, or that he is indebted to Russia in a way that gives them a lot of leverage? And what could be better leverage than being able to reveal that they had him all along?
It’s not certain, but I disagree with the author that it even initially looks unlikely or implausible. I’d even say it’s probable that Russia has been playing him for decades.
They’re just playing devils advocate, giving voice to any would-be conservative readers thoughts on the matter, so that they can dispel them. Based on all available evidence, the orange rapist has been putins fleshlight for decades. There is simply no other explanation.
It’s hard for me to wrap my head around is how many guys my age (over 60) who grew up with Russia as this mysterious fearsome enemy - are just following Trump and going like “yeah yeah Russia not that bad.”
How did this sideshow hawker idiot gain their trust so completely?
Because all of the asbestos and lead that they’ve been exposed to over the entirety of their life has turned the thinky thinky part of their brain marbled smooth.
There are plenty of people who’ve ingested all the same generational toxins and can see perfectly well what Trump is. Some lead taking a person’s IQ down a couple of points doesn’t explain the voting-for-Trump-twice level of idiocy.
It’s as simple as this; he plays to their bigotries. Racists, homophobes, transphobes, xenophobes, religious fundamentalists, all catered for.
“I will hurt those you hate.” That was the promise he was elected upon. That is what drives the voting populace, hate. So wrapped up in the hatred of their fellow suffering humans, they willingly choose a childish, senile, selfish, fat, old, “white”, paedophile, rapist, reality TV star as their “leader”.
And lo, observe the result.
The dildo of consequences, as the saying goes, rarely arrives lubed.
Lead, asbestos, and plastic. I’m barely even human anymore.
That’s the really fascinating part to me and I suspect it will be a topic in many history and psychology books in the future. Trump’s power over some people is nothing short of magical.
There are people that are very susceptible to advertising/propaganda . I work for some of these people in their homes . 9 times out of 10 they have a can of flex seal in their garage ( that stuff does not work ) , I have over heard them talking about buying commemorative silver plated coins and arguing over the phone with some other scam advertisement trying to cancel their reoccurring mail order products. They are suckers , constantly falling for scams. They have been conditioned since birth. Just sleep walking through life waiting to be told what to think or do next.
There are people that are very susceptible to advertising/propaganda
Oh, absolutely, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that it could be a third of the nation’s voting adults.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
George Carlin
What I’m hearing you say is that MAGA is the left third of the bell curve. I can believe that.
Seriously this. Just look at General Patton:
We may have been fighting the wrong enemy (Nazi Germany) all along. But while we’re here (on the Soviet border), we should go after the bastards now, 'cause we’re gonna have to fight 'em eventually.
The authenticity of that quote may be disputed, but the idea is clearly in line with American military ideology at the time, and in line with what Patton thought.
And here we are in 2025 with American leaders siding with nazis and Russia.
Edit: I meant only that USA was anti-Russian. I don’t think anybody else thought the Germans may have been the wrong enemy.
The authenticity of that quote may be disputed
One thing is true about Patton: he was a professional general, which means he understood the importance of logistics and supplies and planning for a successful military campaign. If he actually even said that quote, there is no way that he meant it literally, because at the end of the war in Europe the Soviet military was as strong as it had ever been and had just gotten done rolling up 85% of Germany’s military, while the United States - which had always had a much smaller military force in Europe than the Soviets - was already in the process of transferring most of its assets to the Pacific to finish off the Japanese. Any attempt to fight the Soviets at that time would have ended quickly in complete disaster.
Patton was very vocal about continuing on to fight the Soviets. It’s even justification for a conspiracy theory that he was killed for those beliefs.
The USA remains strongly anti-communist, so much so that it harms the country’s politics by eliminating the left. And Russia hasn’t been communist since 1991. What Republicans see in Russia is a socially reactionary, shamelessly self-enriching right-wing strongman leading a country where liberal attitudes, dissent, and any kind of rights for minorities are harshly suppressed. That’s what they like.
As a German, you weren’t fighting the wrong enemy. But maybe we weren’t the only ones to fight back then.
Because the man has charisma and he says whatever the fuck he wants with confidence, regardless of the actual facts. You also overestimate the education of the average person. By and large, people are stupid and just do what they’re told. Add those two together, then give the people an effigy to burn for their struggles, and you have gestures broadly.
Because the man has charisma
He has the opposite of charisma. I change the channel immediately when Trump is on TV before he can get a full sentence out. Because you just know that it is the voice of a pedophile. Seriously, I can very easily picture Trump’s voice telling a pedophile victim not to talk or else.
You could watch the whole thing and he still wouldn’t get a full sentence out.
You’re not wrong, but he’s able to captivate an audience, and that’s why they flock to him. He speaks what they think.
Its pretty important but we’ve been here before. eg piss tapes, eg tax returns, eg Maddow edged libs enough more than bella delphine.
It doesn’t fucking matter if he is or isn’t or was or wasn’t.
What matters is that he does everything as if he is working at the behest of Russia. It doesn’t really matter why. It matters that its consistent. He consistently does somethings. Always breaking in favor of Putin is one of them.
I don’t know if Trump is a Russian asset, but he’s doing all the things a Russian asset would do.
He may not be a prostitute, but he is wearing the uniform.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
Hey, I like ducks. Leave them out of this.
Hey baby, I’m gunna quack all over your quacking quacks.
See? They’re adorable!
Agreed. Out of all of Trump’s lies, Russia is one thing he remains consistent on.
Putin is the only man he’ll never throw under the bus no matter how much political backlash it causes him
Cold War ghost stories resurface, draped in Kremlin whispers and honey traps.
🐱🐱
Dude cant shut his mouth, there’s no way he’s even qualified to be KGB/FSB
Musk, however… 👀
That’s the point. He isn’t a spy, he’s a tool who they can manipulate.
He’s been helping them launder money through real estate deals, and he’s been talking about NATO since before the Wall fell.
that whiney bitch has been gunning for NATO since the 80s. fucking traitor republicans
I believe it, but I honestly don’t think it would make any difference in the world at this point if proven anyway
They def put him into the white house!(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials)
But I think he rebelled for some reason! He did almost resume the weapon shipments to ukraine…
He didn’t rebel, it’s all a show to hide who he really works for.
Why would he need to hide anything? His voting base literally bases their wordviews on him!
Do you really not think Trump to be egotistical enough to burn the world because his little feewings got hurt? Do you think that he was any more obnoxious than usual during that infamous interview?
Why would he need to hide anything?
Because if it got out, he would likely have the rest of the federal government turn on him, even the MAGA republicans. They’re driven by witch hunts against conspiracy theories and “deep state” nonsense, but now that they’re in power it’s hard to keep pretending like the government is hiding shit when you’re literally the government.
But Trump is a puppet for Putin, America’s longest enemy? That’s a juicy fucking conspiracy right there, and if they can sell it to their constituents, it’d be an easy path to political dominance for any republican who pulls it off. (hopefully it’s not MTG)
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And yet! Russia; an actual fucking bloody dictatorship, a place where critics of the government literally fell out of the fucking windows; is no longer viewed as the enemy of the republican party! I would recommend that you look up republicans voters asked about the Ukrainian war! They do not consider Russia as an enemy, despite not only its crimes against humanity (as why would that be a consideration for the US populous) but even after its transgressions against America…
I personally think the issue is, if I can ask you to read my link, that the theory is for once true! It is not that crazy if you consider that the CIA actually sold drugs to fund foreign wars…
The key word is “almost.” As if he wanted to give the impression of rebelling against Putin without actually doing so.
Why would he need to hide anything? His voting base literally bases their wordviews on him!
Do you really not think Trump to be egotistical enough to burn the world because his little feewings got hurt? Do you think that he was any more obnoxious than usual during that infamous interview?
“did almost”
?
If he was the FBI would have stepped in. Trump is simply very incompetent.
So the moral of the story is we don’t trust anything Russia says or does unless it contributes to the echo chamber noise?
I don’t know what’s going to happen once this generation of politicians dies off and there’s no plausible way to accuse anyone of having ties to the USSR. Will people keep saying it anyway even when it makes even less sense, or will they just switch over to China? Obviously we have to keep accusing right-wingers of somehow having ties to communists, no matter how convoluted or nonsensical it may be, because how else are libs supposed to demonstrate that they’re “one of the good ones?”
We’ll probably never know the truth. But even with no slam-dunk evidence, the allegations should be, to say the least, disturbing, especially for the genuine patriots in the MAGA camp.
Hey, here’s an idea, maybe it won’t, and shouldn’t be disturbing to them if it’s just allegations with no hard evidence? Maybe people should be disturbed by things that are based on, you know, actual facts?
Goddamn I’ve read some pretty stupid stuff, but this takes the cake.
Yeah, imagine basing your beliefs on evidence.
“Their last command was the most important, to not believe the evidence of your own eyes and ears.”
Yeah, like my eyes and ears show me an American billionaire doing American billionaire things but people want me to ignore that and blame the USSR through some bullshit speculation bordering on a conspiracy theory with absolutely nothing to show my eyes in ears, in order to reaffirm loyalty to the state and to capitalism. Seems pretty relevant to this situation indeed.
remember when drumpf was impeached because he was withholding aid to Ukraine because he wanted Zelensky to find dirt on Biden?
hey, hey, hey. Listen to me. You’re a fucking moron.
I have no idea how that’s inconsistent with an American billionaire doing American billionaire things.
Well the USSR doesn’t exist. But Putin certainly does.
Blaming Putin is an option to excuse the actions of the domestic bourgeoisie, but the problem is that it doesn’t also demonstrate opposition to communism. People still might think that you’re genuinely opposed to Trump. You gotta find a way to tie it back to communism so that everyone knows you’re not actually interested in opposing or disrupting things and that the opposition is purely rhetorical. Ultimately, the goal is to say, “Trump is as bad as people who would oppose the US government,” because that way you can undercut your own criticism and reassure everyone that you’ll still happily rally around the flag even as we descend into fascism.
I guess before it was just “Putin is secretly trying to recreate the USSR, and Trump is secretly controlled by Putin, therefore Trump is communist which is bad.” But now there’s figments of evidence, like, “Trump visited the USSR before it was dissolved, therefore he’s a communist which is bad.” Must be an exciting time to be a liberal, because there are marginally fewer convoluted mental gymnastics required in that narrative.
