What makes this worse is the obvious disrespect from Cowbee of my request to disengage. I made it very clear I didn’t want to argue. These communities have absolutely no standards of behaviour for members of the in-group. Which is exactly why I don’t engage with them in these communities.
Well, also the fact that I hate being constantly called a liberal for not repeating Capitalist Putin’s latest botfarm talking point. Talking to these people is an exercise in keeping my calm while I am constantly insulted. No thank you.
Honestly you probably deserved that one. I think a ban is a bit much but it is only 2 days and you were goading
There sure is a lot of arguing in these comments from someone who said they didn’t want to argue.
They don’t want to argue but want to always get the last word in 🙃
Well we’re not on .ml right now, so I’m fine with arguing
He didn’t accuse you of not being a leftist, he accused the Democrats™ of that.
Your comment there as well as your description as an anarchist seem to imply that your are not a Democrat yourself but you merely want them to win instead of Trump (lesser evil and all that).
You apparently called them a Trump supporter (which is calling someone not a leftist as you admit you did).
You feel disrespected by people arguing with you after you argued against the original post. Then you come here and say the quiet part loud.
I don’t want to argue, but I do want to get the last word in
… YDI
Oh hey, it’s me. In my opinion, if you want to disengage, you shouldn’t also lash out and expect to not get called out for that final lash. If I just left the accusation of me being a Trump supporter open just because you said you didn’t want to argue, then that can be seen as admission of being as accused, ergo I responded to that specifically rather than continue the conversation you disengaged from.
In the future, if you want to disengage, then either just say something like “disengage” or don’t respond. If you insult, you aren’t disengaging, but inviting further engagement despite your stated wishes to not engage. It’s like throwing a sucker punch then saying “no punchbacks.”
Okay, fair. I’m fine with having been banned. You should have been banned too.
For what?
Jumping to the conclusion that if I don’t like you personally, I must hate all leftists. It was mean.
I never said you hate leftists, though. After you called me a Trump supporter unprovoked, I asked if you think all Leftists critical of the DNC and GOP count as Trump supporters in your eyes, as there’s no other conclusion I could have gathered from your unprovoked claim.
Maybe there’s more context here that I’m missing, but from what I can see…
YDI/BPR
If you don’t want to argue, stop typing or block them. Real childish pot stirring behaviour going on there. You can’t try and get the last word in by saying “don’t respond to my criticism.”
I don’t want to argue, but I do want to get the last word in, and I also want to explain that my reason for not arguing is that I know Cowbee by reputation and I refuse to be sealioned and trolled by him. I’d be very happy to say my piece without any sealioning and trolling, which is what I tried to make happen, but alas, once again he used the old “Why won’t you talk to me :(”, just like my ex does when she’s been drinking.
Those are essentially mutually exclusive…
If someone wants to argue with you, and you want to disengage, you have to accept that you’re not going to get the last word in no matter how many times you say “don’t argue with me” - cause you can’t control what they can say afterwards.
This is especially true, and comes off as childish, when you’re the one that baited that argument in the first place with “your piece”.
This reminds me of the behaviour in young siblings where one will initiate, and when the anticipated response comes, they launch in to “Mom, they’re touching me!”
You clearly do want to argue, you just don’t want to be argued back with. Either that, or you’re just trying to provoke a response.
I’d be happy to have an argument without trolling, sealioning, and calling people liberals
Ignoring the points of the argument, you have to tell them to “disengage” with nothing else posted in your comment to them. I have a troll following me around every time I talk about a certain topic and the only way to get them to stop (for a brief moment) is to say “disengage.” I’ve made it clear I don’t want to talk to them anymore, multiple times, but still I have to type “disengage” every time they reply to me the same exact bad faith shit they always say.
If you don’t want to deal with them altogether, you have to consider blocking them. The troll I’ve been dealing with has tried to egg me and others into blocking them, they celebrate each time they get blocked. So I also understand if you don’t want to block them, they are miserable people who enjoy feeding on negativity. The fact trolls roam lemmy can dampen your enjoyment, it really does suck.
Interesting. What’s the value of an explicit “disengage” compared to just not replying?
Well for one: silence isn’t disengaging sometimes, so they may keep replying.
Sometimes you’d want to add extra context before you disengage too; for this we will take action against people who break the rule (on our instance)
You can’t say “Disengage! Also you’re stupid.” as some “last word own”. If that is said then they’ll have to deal the consequences; we won’t do anything abt it.
It’s a courtesy to tell the other user that they shouldn’t expect a response, and an extension of good-faith.
Yep, this is correct. I couldn’t just leave the implication that I’m a Trump supporter uncontested, that was slander, they nullified the disengage rule by doing so. I’m fine with not continuing a conversation people don’t wish to continue, but not with people trying to use the disengage rule to hide behind personal insults towards me.
If you don’t want people to call you a Trump supporter, you should try not calling people liberals when they argue we should vote against Trump. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
I didn’t call you a liberal here, and moreover I only implied your hostility to Leftists critical of the DNC after you called me a Trump supporter. My initial comment just asked why you think the Dems would start meaningfully opposing Trump after the midterms when they aren’t already, which is a reasonable and non-inflammatory question.
I know you by reputation. You act like this all the time. It doesn’t matter if you’re provoked. You do it because you know the mods won’t punish you for it.
I don’t know who you are, moreover this now seems like a personal vendetta with me you want to air out. If you want to have an actual discussion with me and see if we can find common ground as fellow leftists I am more than willing to, but that’s hard to do if you call me a troll, Trump supporter, sealion, etc just for trying to engage in a conversation in the first place.
Similar to @[email protected], I suspect I’m lacking some context here, but based purely on what I can see in this post, you came across as rather childish. I’m inclined to say YDI/BPR.
While I do agree that rule should have applied to Cowbee too, that doesn’t give you carte-blanche to do the same.
Also, confronting someone you know to be a troll in an intentionally inflammatory manner, then getting annoyed that they chose to argue with you is like waving a red flag in front of a bull and being surprised it charged at you…
You baited that argument, so I don’t have much sympathy for you in that regard.
I don’t follow, where is the implication that I’m a troll? OP’s complaint was that me as an ML was left alone while they as an Anarchist were punished (though there was no indication that they were an Anarchist, just being pro-dem).
I wasn’t being pro-dem, and you should give other people the benefit of the doubt. Someone having a problem with your ML talking points doesn’t mean they aren’t a leftist. You and the other .ml regulars pull this shit constantly. I’ve seen y’all do it a hundred times. You are mean and exclusionary to anyone who disagrees with you about the election, and then you cry foul when it’s done back to you, so clearly you know it’s not nice behaviour.
First, if you don’t want to continue arguing about the original point, it’s not my intention to continue it, just explain myself. Your original comment was about being upset at the meme for potentially “discouraging people from voting Democrat.” If you don’t want to call that being pro-Dem, then that’s fine, I’ll adjust my phrasing, but my question in response to that (shown in the image above) is in no way trolling or sealioning.
I wasn’t saying you weren’t a Leftist, I asked if Leftists being critical of the DNC were all secretly republicans in your eyes, and I asked as such because you had just labeled me a Trump supporter unprovoked. Is that not a bit hypocritical, when you claim to be upset at me for implying you aren’t a Leftist?
All in all my point is that my initial comment was not mean in any way, and you responded with meanness. The rest of the exchange was me clearing my name. If you wanted to disengage, you should have done as other users have suggested and just said “disengage” or not responded.
Is that not a bit hypocritical, when you claim to be upset at me for implying you aren’t a Leftist?
Sure it is. We’re both hypocrites. We both know it’s wrong to accuse fellow leftists of not being leftists, and we both did it anyway.
If you don’t want to call that being pro-Dem
I sure don’t. America uses First Past The Post. The mathematics of the FPTP system are better represented by the idea of voting against than voting for. Voting for democrats doesn’t support them, but it opposes Trump. Abstaining is a refusal to oppose Trump. Telling other people not to oppose Trump is supporting Trump. Telling other people to oppose Trump isn’t supporting Democrats.
You’ve had this argument a million times and you never learned anything. That’s why I think you’re a troll and a sealion. Your intention is to waste other people’s time. You like to argue. You like the challenge, the conflict, the thrill. The process is more enjoyable and more important to you than the end result. Changing your mind would take away your ability to engage in the same process, because then you wouldn’t have the advantage of everyone you argue with being banned from .ml communities, giving you a symbolic victory and letting you feel proud that you’re a good debater. You want to dominate your opponent from within the rules of the game. It’s not about the future, it’s about the game. It’s a sport to you.
Ignoring the attempt at psychoanalysis (which I disagree with your conclusions about me), I never claimed you weren’t a Leftist. I asked if Leftists being critical of the DNC and GOP alike were all Trump supporters in your eyes, right after you called me a Trump supporter for asking why you think the Dems will suddenly become meaningful opposition come the midterms when they aren’t already.
It really isn’t my fault when people come onto Lemmy.ml and start slandering users as Trump supporters and trolls and get themselves banned. I never reported you for it either. I would much rather get some form of agreement with you and come to a consensus, because debate is largely stupid. My intention when talking with other users depends on the context, but generally focuses on trying to educate on Marxism and Marxism-Leninism, or on discussing contemporary political issues (like the Dems being, in my opinion, woefully insufficient to oppose Trump, revolution is necessary).
I don’t get a dopamine hit when I “win” an argument, but instead do when people genuinely change their mind or thank me for helping with their understanding of Marxist or Marxist-Leninist theory, and for what it’s worth that’s more frequent than users getting upset at me for engaging with them.
That’s pretty much what you can expect from .ml. Check the modlogs. SO many comments are removed that don’t even violate the rules.
Additionally, I’ll bet that it was the Jack-booted authoritarian admins that removed you and not even a mod. The mods there are powerless. Admins overrule them all the time.
You’re better off blocking that shithole.
If you haven’t blocked .ml yet at this point, that’s probably on you
Forget it, Jake. It’s .ml.
If you legit don’t want to argue, just disengage. No one owes you silence.
I think this one might legit be a YDI, or close to it.
Ahhhh, if they’d picked a different rule to cite, it would be a YDI because the comment was borderline against rule 1. But if the mod can’t be bothered to cite the right rule out of two rules total, then they’re half-assing the job.
I dunno if it’s a power tripping bastard. Maybe a LFB? Lazy fucking bastard? Definitely bad moderation though.
Edit: also, you double posted by accident
I did? I can only see one post from my instance. Both from my profile and from the community. Might be a federation issue?
My comment was against instance rule 2. Which to me suggests an admin must have done the ban. I hate that the .ml admins just number rules and don’t say whether they’re community or instance rules. It’s not transparent to the people who are banned, unless they put in a bunch of work to figure it out.
I intentionally broke rule 2, because .ml users do it all the fucking time. Cowbee does it in this screenshot. We’re both accusing each other of not being leftists. He doesn’t get punished for it. Why? Because he’s an ML and I’m an anarchist. ML users always call anarchists liberals, and it’s never dealt with. So I treat them the same way, and take my knocks for it. This post isn’t about a ban. It’s about the rules being selectively enforced. It’s about the ban Cowbee didn’t get.
I mean, if you intentionally broke the rule, what the fuck are you doing posting it here?
This post isn’t about a ban. It’s about the rules being selectively enforced. It’s about the ban Cowbee didn’t get.
Dude, if you’re running around breaking rules on purpose, to bait mods into removing comments, and temporarily banning you, you’re the power tripping bastard, not them.
Also, you showed the conversation. Cowbee didn’t do anything ban worthy, by either mods of that C/, or the instance.
You’re trying to stir shit, and you should have been permanently banned from the instance because of that.
If anything, the actions taken were extremely lenient with your intent in mind
I intentionally broke rule 2, because .ml users do it all the fucking time.
If I’m reading this correctly, it looks like you were fishing for a ban that could be seen as a double-standard so you could make a post here.
Moreover, you never labeled yourself an Anarchist, and I haven’t been hostile towards Anarchists, I myself used to be one and am sympathetic despite now being a Marxist-Leninist. Additionally, I never said you weren’t a Leftist, and your label of me as a Trump supporter happened entirely unprovoked.
Your reputation provoked it. People know who you are.
Isn’t that more your conclusion about me than anything else? You admitted elsewhere to trying to get banned so you can make this post and call out “hypocrisy.” Seems more people are siding with me on this one.
If you want to have an actual conversation, I’d be thrilled, but it looks like that wasn’t your aim in the first place.
Lay with the tankies, get the tracks.
Fight pigs, get dirty.
Yeah they really do not like it when you call out their game. It’s because they actually think they are being clever and that everyone can’t already see they are just Trump trolls.
Link to thread?
