This might be relevant to those who wish / have to use Windows 11:
This week, Microsoft made it very clear that it wants to block the popular BYPASSNRO workaround, used to skip the internet and Microsoft Account requirement checks during the Windows 11 installation OOBE (initial setup), although thankfully, the script can still be created using Registry edits.
A 7 step guide.
Honestly, guys, gals and others, Microsoft is making it crystal clear they don’t want you to use their OS. It’s not your OS, it’s theirs. Stop trying mangle it into something it is not. If you need registry edits just to make the OS usable, it’s not worth it. It’s not for you. Please, please, please look at alternatives that respect you, your intelligence, your privacy and your data. One day Microsoft will push an update that will lock you out of your machine unless you create an account. Jumping through these hoops is just delaying the inevitable. Using an OS is not worth all this effort and stress.
Install. Linux. Mint.
My sarcasm has less steps than this workaround. A linux install has less steps than that.
“Linux is far too complex for the common person to use.”
Installing windows without your data being harvested: 7 steps, then editing registry files, uninstalling most of the programs that come with it and get reinstalled with every update, use this command prompt, download this program from a random website you’ve never heard of before…
Installing Linux without your data being harvested: Click continue.
Linux is so difficult you guys, no one could possibly learn the command line.
Orrrrrr, hear me out, just click once and get an online account because you don’t care.
And yes, the command line is an issue to most regular users. My parents don’t grasp the concept of keyboard shortcuts for copying and pasting. I get a phone call every time they try to attach a file to an email, where they say the steps when they are doing it so they don’t fuck it up. If you use the computer to access a single webpage that’s bookmarked, youtube and ebay, maybe an hour every week at most, expecting them to have to learn a new system and a command line isn’t feasible. People like icons and clicking. If you managed to get rid of a keyboard and maintain functionality, they’d switch in a heartbeat. That’s why smartphones are so popular. That’s why kids preffer touchscreen over controller, and are basically unable to play keyboard and mouse anymore.
If you use the computer to access a single webpage that’s bookmarked, youtube and ebay, maybe an hour every week at most, expecting them to have to learn a new system and a command line isn’t feasible.
You don’t need to access the command line (nor even the system really) to do browsing. The same browser you use on windows is gonna work on Linux.
Linux is so difficult you guys, no one could possibly learn the command line.
In the vast VAST majority of “normal” use cases, which I’d argue for most people it’s :
- Web browsing
- watching videos or listening to music
- editing text documents, spreadsheets, presentations
- playing video games
- managing files, e.g. moving them in directories, compressing them, etc
- keeping the system up to date
- using a printer
there are reliable ways to use a GUI. So… even though IMHO the command line is absolutely worth learning, one can perfectly use Linux my “just” clicking their way around.
I work in IT (almost exclusively Windows) and have been using Linux on my private machines for 8 years now. I barely know anything about the command line. I don’t have to be a Linux nerd because it just works with the GUI. (KDE Plasma. Can’t speak for other DEs)
I work in IT
You are not a common user.
Maybe he really sucks at his job
Method acting approach to IT
it unironically sounds like a good approach for some roles, though?
I think our IT department is full of them, because they crash everyone’s computers every other month
He doesnt use the command line
I’ve swapped back and forth between Linux and Windows a half dozen times now, and I can honestly say, both are a bitch to set up from a clean install.
Even with guides and autoloading scripts and whatnot, it’s still going to be a few days of pain while you try to figure out what else needs to be installed to use the computer the way you want to use it.
Or that’s how it works for me.
I mostly just wish more games were linux native.
can you explain why it takes you that long to set up a new linux install? for me a fresh install with a (really not complex) script to install my required software and copying over config files takes maybe one hour (excluding game downloads of course).
genuinely interested if your setup is that much more complex or where the difference comes from.
I’m counting game installations. Then there’s the fact that NoScript seems to reset every time I swap operating systems, so now I have to figure out what I’ve allowed and blocked before…
Then there’s the pruning of random shit that was auto installed. Some of that shit can take days to find.
But most of the pain is when I try to do X, and need to find a program that will do it. This happens in Windows and Linux, and either will have programs that work, but then I have to find the program and learn it, and then let enough time pass where I have to do it all over again.
The most recent example was a map making program for my Table Top RPG obsession. One program that’s a go-to under Windows (with possible Linux capability?) is called AutoRealm. Which hasn’t updated since 2013… But it’s still one of the most powerful fractal mapping programs I’ve ever lightly used.
Bought an old laptop for my daughter’s first computer. She’s going to just learn typing and some simple stuff. Not able to install Windows with a local account. Fedora KDE it is then.
LINUX. Jesus it’s fucking Linux.
I use linux for everything except for one critical app that does not yet work on linux outside of a virtual machine. But, my computer is not powerful enough to run it in a virtual machine.
There are also no alternatives to it either. So, I have a second computer to use windows for just that, but the day it works on linux is the day I say bye to windows forever.
There are also no alternatives to it either
Just curious, what is it?
Shhhh, it’s a secret. Probably some adobe software.
In my case it’s actually secret, I don’t want to dox myself. Though any of my friends reading this comment will probably realize who I am based on this and like any 1-2 comments from my past saying things about myself lol
My little pony simulator?
Just kidding. Have a nice day.Fuck. How’d you know?
is dual booting not an option for you?
That’s a pain, I just use the second computer for the one app as I need to be at my desk to use it anyway. My laptop is Linux as I do everything else on it.
Nah, it’s not as bad as Linux.
Yeah, it’s called wipe the drive and install linux.
That’s right. Even if you have to use a windows app that Linux compatibility layers don’t support, you can banish Windows 11 to a virtual machine.
Oh, weird, even in a virtual machine it wants an account. Anyone know where I can find a bypass method? :-)
Just put Linux on the VM.
Or use WinApps
The number of Windows applications that don’t run via compatibility layers is small and shrinking. Unless everyone is a video editor who steams professional Valorant then they can find software to do what they need done.
video editor who steams professional Valorant
What about Kdenlive or OBS Studio for that?
It was more than kernel anticheat from Valorant that I was aiming at.
OBS works great (though it did have issues with Wayland) and kdenlive as well, but in these arguments the person is always going to insist that they can only use Adobe products, because they don’t work and they’re trying to prove that you can’t use Linux.
It was more than kernel anticheat from Valorant that I was aiming at.
There’s an easy solution to that too: Don’t buy games with kernel anticheat.
This guy fucks!
As a civilization, we need to accept that we can no longer continue to depend on Microsoft Windows to use our computers. Hopefully the transition will go through without Microsoft having the opportunity to try to save themselves.
I don’t think we are even close to getting critical mass but there gamers can be converted pretty easily now.
Each time micro-shit does a thing, Linux gets more users.
Prolly will take another decade or two but Linux will hit that critical mass.
Every day more people find out that Linux is part of the freedom tool set.
This is great. Most other comments only talking about how the solution is to “install Linux”. But thats not a viable solution for us Admins setting up PC’s for users in a company who barely understand how to use a Windows machine, never mind them ever even hearing of the word Linux.
I would love to install Linux on some users machines that dont use the PC for anything other than Internet Access. But I know they would still have a cow.
Since I saw they were getting rid of Bypassnro ive been panicking, wondering if I’m going to start having to set up a Microsoft account for all my users. I’ll test this on Monday and hopefully breath easy. That is until they decide to strip us of this solution as well.
The just install Linux crowd gets really old. How’s that gonna help on a work machine where I HAVE to use Office to collaborate? Oh right, it’s not! Totally unhelpful.
Because they aren’t trying to help, they are just trying to feel superior about something by fixating on their survivor bias and ignoring whatever context people might have for still using Windows or having a dual-boot instead of just getting rid of it.
I don’t think this is it. Many Linux users who evangelize were Windows users once, they have a pretty good understanding of the context and the challenges that exist in that migration for both them and less tech-savy others.
Inching closer snd closer to the Year of the Linux Desktop, to the point where Windows-focused media like LTT started talking about it, didn’t happen because people said “both are good”.
It’s like politics, change for the better in a capatilist system happens with noise.
I’m a huge FOSS advocate and recommend Linux over Windows. I understand the challenges it repsents for users in a work environment. And those users will get Windows, for now, but they will continue to hear about its problems and the benefits of Linux whenever they ask me or complain. Because that’s what opens the doors, even if it’s annoying in the moment.
Just like politics, repetition of the problems they are making worse, repetition, and more repetition, until the ignorant learn the better path forward.
Edit: you know what? It doesn’t matter, not like you would believe my words anyway, just enjoy your life and I’ll… Not enjoy mine.
100% of my office relies on at least WSL.
All our servers are Linux.
Tons of huge multi-national companies are already using Google Docs which run great in Linux.
It’s coming.
Its a cybersecurity issue so it is inevitable, browser apps are the future because corporations don’t want files sitting on a filesystem, they want to keep them in their enterprise storage. ChromeOS is the future, or something like it.
work machine where I HAVE to use Office to collaborate?
Taking the bait, what is specific to Office that is needed?
Sharepoint mainly. Mandatory at work. I don’t run IT.
AFAICT that’s supported https://rclone.org/onedrive/
Eh, depending on what’s being done office.com is fine for most.
That aside, if this is a business and you’re using office apps, you have an account that should be getting used during setup. Thats not who this workaround is for, and not who the “just install Linux” comment is for.
Edit: if you’re an admin with O365 and not using AAD on your devices, its your own problem.
If you’re using a personal device for work wanting to avoid AAD, you’ve made a mistake.
If this is somehow confusing to you, step back, re-read, and try again.
Eh, depending on what’s being done office.com is fine for most.
I want to live in your fantasy land.
if you’re an admin with O365 and not using AAD on your devices, its your own problem.
Why do I want even more shit in the cloud? Some stuff I want on-prem and don’t need it in the cloud.
Plus, it’s now Entra ID.
I want to live in your fantasy land.
Its not hard. Just have a production Linux desktop and a production windows laptop, and it becomes pretty clear what you can do. Basic memos and emails are no problem through the web, and thats a huge number of people.
Why do I want even more shit in the cloud? Some stuff I want on-prem and don’t need it in the cloud.
Why buy cloud shit and then not use cloud shit?
Just don’t buy cloud shit and join to a local domain.
Plus, it’s now Entra ID.
Let me know when I need to type that at the CLI and I’ll stop calling it aad.
You can use NTLite to set up local accounts during installation, skip the OOBE, remove TPM requirements, strip down some of the bloat, and disable some of the tracking. You can have it include driver packs and updates too. All I have to do after installation is log in, domain join if necessary, and set up user accounts.
I agree. Lemmy is like. “Use Linux…”
“Oh you still want to use Windows? Why do you still drown puppies and club baby seals?”
Deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me clubbing seals and installing windows.
Could you not use an outdated ISO of a windows that supports local accounts, and then apply updates ?
Don’t say Linux then. If they already barely know windows, that’s an ideal situation, it’s going to be similarly confusing either way.
If your concern is that you think they would run into more stability issues when using a linux-based OS vs Windows, that’s a reasonable concern. But if we’re comparing against a sufficiently stable distro release, I don’t think it’s well founded.
If you’re setting them up for a company, you’ll join too a domain anyway and it’s a non-issue. Probably even have it automated using WDS or a similar 3rd party solution.
Doesn’t make it any less annoying as a policy from Ms, but for any company of like 50+ employees, it shouldn’t affect anything.
I have not set up WDS for my company but its on my list of learning how to do. Currently I go through the process of setting up a local admin before I add to domain. So I go through initial setup and then add to domain once I’m at the desktop.
I’m one IT guy for a company of 150 users.
Just look into answer files, WDS isn’t a requirement for using them (just makes it easier). It can contain three local admin and set it up. You shouldn’t even see the oobe in most cases (depending on how you prefer to handle that). Domain join can also be done from the file.
Iirc they aren’t getting rid of the method, they’re just making it less obvious.
If you’re managing fleets of windows installs you should already be using some kind of autounattend.xml script for settings like Automated Winstall. More info in this video. You can also use older Windows 11 ISOs and update after setup if you’re uncomfortable with that.
Not defending the decision by Microsoft, just pointing out some workarounds that should continue to work.
Oh, yeah… Linux. I think I saw one of those at the zoo
Lemmy is the 1.45% user base on steam hardware surveys os section. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam
By far most people want to use windows. The people that are loud on here about Linux are the only ones that don’t so thank you for a solution that’s not the constant post saying just install Linux. Its not intuitive for almost all users aside IT people and enthusiasts.
By far most people want to use windows.
Do they though? I’d bet a significant share do not “want” to, but they are stuck there, convinced there are no viable alternatives.
Windows intuitively making you jump through 7 steps to not have an online account. The reality sadly is most Windows users will just be pushed by Microsoft to use a Microsoft account to access their own PC.
Only 1% of Windows users who are IT people and enthusiasts will find out how to avoid being forced into internet based accounts.
It’s not even viable for me. I simply cannot use Linux daily because all my jobs require software that doesn’t have a Linux version, or it does but it’s lacking necessary features, or there’s an alternative but I have to burn extra hours making it work with their systems/setup - hours I don’t have.
Or I have to use internally configured Remote Desktop profiles over a VPN (not to be confused with RDP), and you can’t do that specific use case on Linux because it requires using the company’s internal Windows Store with specific Remote Desktop installation.
Or I have to use a specific Outlook instance, locally installed, because somehow they’ve blocked web access (I still haven’t figured out exactly how they set this up).
After a 12 hour day, sure, I can switch back to my dual boot Linux instance and spend 1-2 hours for personal use. But the ratio is still Windows-leaning no matter how you slice it.
People are usually talking about private computers. Of course you can’t simply switch your employers OS.
Unless of course you’re self-employed so suddenly you have to start dual booting. Linux for gaming and work, Windows for windows-specific work lol
But more intuitive than constantly working against Windows.
If installing something like Linux Mint is not intuitive enough for someone, they probably don’t even know what they’re doing on Windows either.
Honestly a lot of people just don’t realize how easy it actually is. They think it’s something arcane and strange
You click a button, it’s as difficult as installing Windows since XP.
You down vote me for saying the truth.
If you think installing Linux is hard you’ve either never done it and let other people dictate your opinions, you’re incompetent with computers or you can’t follow a simple step-by-step guide.
If you or someone you know sucks with computers, that’s fine. I get not moving someone from Win to Linux if they can’t understand the digital equivalent of tying their shoes. Just get a Chromebook if that’s the case.
Barring cases of disability, using Windows at a basic level is not hard. Most home users use it to browse the dust on the upper crust of the internet, write a doc, print shit and nothing more. I bet if you swapped Win for Linux on most people’s computers and riced it to look like Win 11 many of them would be none the wiser.
Also, if you’re a Lemmy user and you have a basic understanding of how this platform works I guarantee you have the basic capacity to successfully install Linux on an old computer.
I had a family member call me because they were having difficulty with a light switch. They’re not dumb, just set in their ways and can’t be bothered to learn something else. Plenty of these people don’t like change just because it’s different. They got confused when windows started doing the rotating desktop pictures because they didn’t realize it was still their desktop. Do I think they could eventually use Linux? Probably. Do I want to deal with even more questions? No. Could they install it themselves? Absolutely not without help.
How to setup your desktop as a desktop: only 7 steps!
Let’s just not install windows?
People who can’t or don’t want to use Linux should just use Windows LTSC or IOT. It’s honestly the next best thing. I just set it up for my brother. When you open up the start menu on the fresh install and there is nothing there out of the box, it’s such a nice feeling. No ads, no games, no onedrive, nothing. The only thing LTSC has is Microsoft Edge but even that one you can uninstall.
Licenses are expensive, but you can easily activate it with mas.
How expensive is expensive? And you usually can’t just buy a single license, right? You have to have an enterprise agreement and buy some minimum number.
Enterprise is a bit funny with how it works, there is a 5 license minimum, but they don’t all need to be Enterprise. You can get 1 LTSC upgrade license (±$300), then on top of that get 4 of the one user Microsoft Identity Manager CALs to become compliant (4x ±$10). This also still requires you to have a Professional (not Home) license already as it is an upgrade.
Microsoft is not selling the licences to individuals, you need to buy it as a business, or buy it somewhere else. You can try this. https://www.cdw.com/search/?key=ltsc Idk if or how it works. I just install iso, and use mas command, and it is activated. I don’t care that I “stole” from microsoft.
People like to complain that Linux is complicated to setup and use. In recent years, it’s increasingly the opposite. Basic windows settings locations are shuffled around and hidden and you have to use the Windows Commandline/Powershell to get things done. And installing Linux is also much faster and most of all doesn’t ask you a hundred questions how to best steal your data.
Just turned a Win10 machine into Ubuntu not too long ago. It took all day, broke several times, and still has issues booting remotely. It is getting easier, but a 30 minute Windows install with a few button presses is still easier, unfortunately
Maybe you were just unlucky in your specific hardware combination? I did literally dozens of Ubuntu installations on very different hardware over the years. Most of the time it was a matter of minutes, and without any glitches or need for troubleshooting.
That’s not a Linux problem, that’s a PEBKAC or hardware problem.
Next time try Mint.
You are right. From what I saw Linux-based OSs have come a long way. The issue with Linux is when it comes to professional environments, that are not IT-related: There are niche programs that are used in certain professions that were written to work on Windows computers exclusively. They are not availiable for other OSs, because they are not wide spread or popular with non-professionals. Also, Microsoft Office (especially Outlook and Excel) is very dominant within the professional field - up to a point that it can’t be changed easily. All this does not apply to users who use Linux computers outside a professional enviroment, as there are alternatives for popular programs and services already.
Yeah, I know. Especially the MS Office dominance is still a problem in business scenarios. For private use though there are office solutions which are “good enough” (Office 365 and Google Docs, Spreadsheets etc in a Browser, Libreoffice to name a few)
Agree. The installation isn’t a barrier. Basic OS navigation probably isn’t either anymore. Its still having to use alternative software and work arounds that I think is the frustrating part for the average user attempting to switch. Also, it’s that they can’t use Linux at work in many cases and it’s uncomfortable to switch environments on a daily basis from home computing to workplace computing. You’d think with nonsense like the crowds trike crash more businesses would force the switch, but unfortunately I don’t get the sense that is happening.
uncomfortable to switch environments on a daily basis from home computing to workplace computing
How so? Most people just use a browser and edit basic documents. Once those apps are started the OS itself matters little, basic things like copy/paste or alt/tab work exactly the same. Chances are at work they don’t even have the right to admin their machine so for “complex” things it’s out of their reach there.
They are never going to totally kill local only accounts… Because corporate networks, automation, embedded systems, air gaped networks… all exist in abundance in the enterprise and government worlds.
fun fact Rufus already has all of this automated and even has steps to have the local account of your choice already as part of the image
