Alternatively, the government must provide the name of the person or people who chose not to halt Alien Enemies Act deportations out of the U.S. despite his order — and Boasberg said he would refer them for prosecution.
Betting pool is open! Who do we think Drump and Co are going to throw under the bus this time?
No one. No need. Just ignore the court like he always has. Fucking joke.
And the court will keep wagging fingers.
A serious judge would deputize a citizen militia to arrest him.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
A serious judge would have ensured a multiple time convicted felon was not permitted to become a dictator in the formerly most powerful country in the world.
Lol that is not within the control of a random individual judge.
It no longer surprises me that murica is in the state it is in. It did at first, I admit. Perhaps it’s my age. Or my general belief that people are good and care at least some, for their fellow man. Especially their own families, neighbors and friends regardless of their background.
But that assumption is continually proven wrong lately. People willfully blind themselves to the obvious. They refuse to admit when everything has broken around them. They live in this weird place of denial grasping at things that are no longer effective or even present.
Many of us are well aware that the system has been broken for years and that this was a likely result, but the system also made it very difficult to stop. (The mathematically determined 2 party stem we get with first past the post voting for instance).
Once democrats blew it by giving up local power, they and the country, were done.
Expecting change without forcing it and ensuring it happens. Sitting back and blaming the politicians. You are the citizens who put them in power and you are the citizens who can remove them from that power. No one else. You. Your countrymen. Your families and friends. You.
Can’t they just claim it’s an “official act?”
That ONLY protects the president, and only from crimes he commits as official acts.
Now, we all know the mental gymnastics the GOP can do are impressive, but ignoring a court order is not an official act.
The deportation itself? That’s the act that he’s immune from.
The bigger deal is that this immunity protection does not extend to the President’s minions and officials.
Trump is never going to round up the prisoners and fly the plane to El Salvador all by himself. He’s got people to do that, and those people can be served with court orders and criminal contempt process.
The immunity ruling also retained determination of an act to be official up to the courts.
And then if Trump just pardons them?
Correct. And then Trump just pardons them.
The bigger deal is that this immunity protection does not extend to the President’s minions and officials.
Not directly, but any employee or agent has no liability if they are following legal orders of their employer. So no - they cannot be prosecuted either.
State employees aren’t specifically beholden to the agency who hires and fires them.
The state has an executive, legislative and judicial branch.
If they follow an executive order but contravene a law, or contravene a court order that they know about (since only the courts make final interpretations of law) - my understanding is that they have no immunity.
That’s not what the Nuremberg trials found
It’s meant to deter the “only following orders” Nazi defense.
In theory there should be checks and balances which prevent anything absurdly fascist, it’s expected that it would be halted before it happens, but I suspect those who wrote this into the Constitution didn’t count on the level of fascism we’re seeing now.
We’ll see how it works out.
In theory there should be checks and balances
What do you think the Judiciary Branch is doing?
Aiding and abetting?
By holding them accountable in court?
That’s not entirely accurate. His immunity for “official acts of the office of the President” is to be determined by the presiding judge. An “official act” has yet to be defined, and there is nothing written about charges. He can and should be charged as well, so we can begin to define the limits of his immunity. Refusing to challenge it in fear that it will be overturned, is exactly what he’s hoping for.
I would have thought that paying hush money to a hooker wouldn’t be an official act, but whatever.
Trump was convicted of that but the judge ruled there should be no penalty.
“He’s got so much potential”
If the president never orders them to do anything as policy then they can’t really be held accountable can they?
That only applies to the President… but, whoever takes the fall can immediately get a pardon.
State kidnapping charges would quickly follow.
My money is on martial law, and the summary removal or execution of Boasberg.
Wish I was being sarcastic, but the odds of martial law or war being declared on Hitler’s birthday - the 20th, are far too likely for my taste. It would be within Trump’s character to simply murder his foes, regardless of their place in society.
Wait, Hitler was born on weed day? How much better would the world have been if he had gotten into weed instead of coke and amphetamines?
Probably would have become a Bob Ross type of artist, rather than a avatar of hatred.
Now I’m wondering if any of those betting sites have anything going on for these scenarios lmao
Later:
In an alarming development, the White House slams judges by releasing a new executive order titled “Trump finds probable cause for the Judicial Branch to suck on deeze nuts”; Schumer and Jeffries urge cooperation and reconciliation by wringing their hands and asking you for $13 before midnight to meet a nonexistent deadline. This message brought to you by Brawndo: The Thirst Mutilator!
Oooo a slam! We love slams! The drama! The excitement!
AND HERE COMES SECRETARY POWELL FROM THE TOP ROPE!
OH SHIT HILLARY IS DOING A DEMONIC SUMMONING RITUAL RINGSIDE AND … BY ALL THINGS HOLY HIDE YOUR KIDS ITS ZOMBIE JIMMY CARTER READY TO DROP THE HABITAT FOR HUMANITY HAMMER!!!
Oh shit this is getting good
I voted Trump coz he’s gonna fix the Conomy. Brought to you by Carl’s Jr.
No one. He will just start dealing out pardons like it’s a poker game. The US Justice System is dead.
Great
Actual consequences…?
My expectations are extremely low
“The US has brought charges against coffee boy Jimmy McTwiddledumb, who just started as an intern 4 weeks ago, in regard to the illegal actions taken by this administration. The administration admitted McTwiddledumb was the sole person responsible for all actions the court has taken issue with.”
The next day: McTwiddledumb has been pardoned
The week after that: the same or another person is again found in contempt, because the ruling of the court has’t been enforced.
Some legal interpretations say that contempt of court is not a pardonable offense. I don’t know if those are prevailing in the US.
New executive order: contempt of court can be pardoned.
New court order: this power belongs to the legislative branch, order invalid. :)
Then do it!
They are
“Just another week to get their ducks in a row, and Garland is gonna DROP THE HAMMER!”
They’re always “doing” the thing. Still waiting for a thing to get done.
I still would prefer they do it right, than to hurry it up and it gets undone
People are understandably pessimistic but Trump is playing too fast and stupid. He’s juggling about a dozen knives right now. It’s not sustainable.
At this point you have to say his strategy for dealing with legal problems is flawless. Pretty much just delay and ignore.
Honestly, the law isn’t going to curb this shit show, it’s foolish to think that it is.
I keep pushing back on this sentiment because I think it’s wrong.
Even if it is inevitable that he will win in court, it’s still worth fighting every step of the way:
- It ties up their resources, including chewing up loyalists who burn out trying to defend the indefensible. It’s no coincidence that the second Trump term is filled with people who are simply less competent at their jobs, compared to the people in the first Trump term.
- It forces them to actually make statements and stake out positions about what they’re doing. No amount of journalism or activism could’ve gotten the Trump administration to admit that they got it wrong by deporting Kilmar Abrego Garcia, because that was the work of opposing lawyers and a tough judge. And even though they fired the lawyer who first conceded that point, Trump’s own Solicitor General admitted it, too, to the Supreme Court.
- If the administration tears down the rule of law, that will have unintended consequences that harm them as well. You know how Trump blinked when it became clear that his ill-conceived tariffs were going to hurt his friends, and destroy his own popularity among the people whose approval he most craves? That dynamic will play out multiple times as he undermines the rule of law.
- Practically speaking, his contempt for the rule of law undermines his popularity and support from many of those he actually draws power from. He wants the financial world, the business world, the press, the film/art/literature/culture world, religious institutions, and the sports world to admire him and support him. Each time he breaks something, he has to deal with the backlash among his own supporters.
I’m not going to comply in advance. I’m fighting every step of the way, because even if he beats me every time, his unforced errors as he does so will still jeopardize his power.
Keep coping man. I’m sure the king will care.
Agreed. It’s clear that our legal system doesn’t have an answer for “vexatious litigants”. I think we’re far past the point where a panel of lawyers and judges need to look at any legal action he is taking and determine if it’s sound legal theory before the lawsuit is accepted into the court.
Like suing CNN for a poll. That never even should have made it to a Judge’s desk.
Frankly, I’d prefer if there was a wealth-based “deposit” required for appealing a ruling to a higher court, and I’d the case is ruled the same way or as meritless, the deposit is forfeited.
Trump has been “playing too fast and stupid” since 2016 and has faced zero material consequences. This will not change now. Like have you been in a cave this entire time?
Sure, he’s taken plenty of loses in that time. Don’t get caught up in his narrative.
Lost the 2020 election for one
Then led a failed insurrection for which he faced zero consequences, then was reelected by a bigger margin than the first time, then pardoned every single person arrested for the failed insurrection.
Then it took him about a month to completely dismantle the US Constitution.
So, when exactly is his balancing act going to fall apart?
He’s juggling about a dozen knives right now.
Knife juggler here. It takes way more coordination than what trump is capable of. He’s just chucked a bunch of knives into the captive audience and is hoping that he will die or become a dictator before the lawsuits are complete.
It is that’s the whole strategy. Nothing matters to them anymore.
Who is going to hold the executive branch accountable? If they ignore the courts there is no one to hold them accountable.
I am beginning to realize how inadequate the education people received in the US are.
Both the Legislator and Judicial have the authority to deputize to make arrests in determination of contempt.
The “sperate but equal” has meaning to it. The major difference is that over time the Republicans have allocated more and more funds to the Executive to enable them to build up a persistent “enforcement.”
I’m beginning to wonder if the education we received was entirely on purpose.
In my call yesterday to my reps I asked them to help the judicial in enlisting marshals to go arrest trump.
Edit: Adding https://5calls.org/ for visibility.
You made a call and were actually able to speak with someone? How does one do this exactly?
I have three reps I call on the regular (but I think I might start to include my governor’s office too). They (the interns) don’t always pick up. Depends on call volume, time of day, or whether they give a crap. But I highly recommend 5calls.org They do help get some thoughts together based on topic and give you a statement you can read if you need to and they supply the phone numbers for your reps. I go off script all the time and am passionate, but I try hard not to rant.
This is a great resource! Thank you.
Calling during “working” hours has worked for me.
This link is AMAZING. I will share this far and wide.
I’ve wished for something like this each time I picked up the goddamn phone to call my goddamn representative and stumbled through my statement. I’ve called a few times, good on me, but it was awful. Inept phone-users unite! We too can call our reps!
I made three calls today to my representatives regarding Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Y’all, please do the same. I used the script from 5calls and it was empowering.
The major difference is that over time the Republicans have allocated more and more funds to the Executive to enable them to build up a persistent “enforcement.”
In no way shape or form is that a “Republican” problem. Democrats have been happily handing ever more power to the Executive for decades. As I’ve said in other places this is a symptom of Congress members being more worried about re-election and campaign donations than handling the business of the nation.
I’m beginning to wonder if the education we received was entirely on purpose.
I graduated in '91 from a town in the MidWest with about 30,000 people. We covered “separate but equal”. I tire of people blaming the education system when in reality most people are ignorant by choice.
Please explain to me how they are going to arrest someone that can pardon himself and use the national guard or Army to protect himself?
Well, there were 5.2m people protesting in one day.
The judges have the authority to deputize number of people required to carry out an arrest warrant in the case of contempt.
I am willing to bet that out of 5.2m there are at least several hundred thousand willing to assist with that.
This would play right into the persecution narrative. It’s basically asking for a shooting war with both the secret service and the proud boys/oath keepers/etc types, at the very least. And I suspect it would be where we see if the military is going to follow illegal orders or not.
Can it work? That’s a long shot at best. But the list of viable options is short and getting shorter.
…and was ruled by SCOTUS to be immune to prosecution for some undetermined “official acts”. And when he was convicted the judge ruled no penalty should be applied because SCOTUS had ruled he was immune to prosecution.
They aren’t going to. Talk it to death nothing will change. No court or Marshall can help anymore. They have instilled a fascist dictator who will not be removed without force.
The deputized Marshalls are authorized to use force if necessary to apprehend the criminal.
I’ll be shocked to hell and back if they would actually use force, even if they’re authorized to do so.
Trump can issue an excecutive order and have them executed.
remember - SCOTUS has ruled he is immune from prosecution.
Trump can issue an excecutive order and have them executed.
An “insane” ex-employee of a three letter agency can fire a wire-guided missile at his helicopter too, or someone may leave a drop of nerve agent on his door knob. I mean to say: possibilities for violence are endless. They’re an entirely different dish than legal possibilities, which are limited. With violence, imagination is the limit.
The supreme court however - I think they’re not bound by their previous rulings. If the court sees a justification, they can rule differently next time.
They even decided it before they elected the dictator so folks could vote accordingly and they still ticked Heir Drumpf on vote day or didn’t bother.
Hahaha that’s funny as shit. What criminal? The one that runs America with dozens of felony convictions and has never stepped foot inside a prison?
If the Marshall Service does not enforce contempt, it is possible for the courts to appoint others to enforce for them if they are willing to do so. It would be unprecedented, but well within the bounds of what the law states
The rule begins in section (a) by instructing that, as a general matter, process “must be served by a United States marshal or deputy marshal or by a person specially appointed for that purpose.”
[…]
Thus, by its plain terms, Rule 4.1 contemplates that the court may appoint individuals other than the marshals to enforce civil contempt orders.
[…]
Even a rogue marshal’s service, in other words, is not an insurmountable obstacle to courts enforcing the rule of law. If courts have the courage, the legal tools are there.
So…DOG, the bounty hunter? That would actually be kinda cool.
No - bounty hunters are specifically for people who skip on their bail, and are hired by private companies. They do not have the judicial authorization to use force. There is no “dead or alive” because of a bounty can’t be brought in, the bail bondsman loses money.
A deputized marshall has the legal protection of the state to use force to apprehend the warranted. Its rarely used because it’s a powerful tool.
It’s up to the man on the street.
I feel like there’s a weird number of people here who are rooting against the boring legalese solution to this problem.
I don’t think it’s weird - we’re used to seeing the rich and powerful get away with everything.
But it is boring. And time consuming. Something that the judges admit themselves.
We also do need that same energy, because even if the courts deputize and enforce contempt, there will be resistance to it.
I agree with what some others have said. I’m not rooting against it. I’m doubting that anything will actually come of it. I would absolutely love for something to happen.
People aren’t rooting against it, only realizing that it’s not gonna work. America is too far gone for boring legalese to matter.
And? Are those people’s wishes keeping the legalese solution from working? Is their negativity harshing the vibes of Judges?
Well it’s not helping the morale of anyone who reads those defeatist comments. I prefer to encourage the signs of good efforts.
Half the people are mad they haven’t done it faster and the other half think it’s pointless, pretty sure 100% are going to complain no matter what
Morale is at an all time low.
The legal system has been completely pathetic in addressing this problem. It would be foolish to think it will impede a sitting president.
if I’m not mistaken, isn’t the next appropriate legal step to start impeached proceedings. is there a reason they aren’t even trying to do it?
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Anyone threatened with any jail time is going to get pardoned by Trump.
Civil contempt is not pardonable apparently. So someone super low level is getting thrown under the bus
Can’t wait to see how the DOGE boys react to finding out they could spend the rest of their lives in jail.
“Put it all on Bigballs69420, my man”
Trump cannot change tariffs either but there you are.
This is good to know. I will assume that those in power will take action. Whew! /s
Sounds good to me. About the only way to make it stick is to arrest Trump and hold him in a cage where he belongs, but that has its own complications…
Courts are not going to help you. They haven’t for a long time. Wake up.
Help who with what?
Help america with its fascist dictator problem. I’m sure you’ve heard of it.
I wonder who Judge Boasberg will hire as Special Prosecutor?
Some feckless Republican insider who feigns doing the work and drags it out long enough for Trump to escape accountability?
Doubt that.
He’s not going after Trump here. He can’t. He’s going after anyone else ignoring his legal orders though.
Adam Kinzinger would be a good choice, but maybe too political.
Edit: I also lay the DoJ’s ineffectiveness to properly deal with Trump squarely at the feet of Biden & Garland.
Yeah. Garland was the Republican insider that scuttled the case for Trump. I dunno man. My cynicism is at its maximum. I wish I could allow myself to have hope that the right thing happens.
Can’t pardon contempt. Boasman can literally jail everyone involved with ignoring his injunction except Trump. Used to be indefinitely, but I think that was capped.
Boasman can also deputize citizens if the Marshal service decides they don’t want their jobs anymore.
Can’t pardon civil contempt. The judge declared probable cause for criminal contempt, and crimes can be pardoned
Crap, you’re right, I had that backwards.
That would be … wild. Did not know that judges could deputize citizens. TIL!
Federal judges have a large toolbox to force compliance with the court.
It’s petty & I hope it doesn’t come to this, but personally, I’d love to watch some ICE agents getting ripped out of their homes at 3am.
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Obviously KP from TX. You know the prosecutor that’s guilty of multiple felonies.
