https://sh.itjust.works/post/4274675
To this I say, no. As a community, we do not deny proven genocides, like the holocaust, or the genocide against indigenous Americans by various European colonizers, or the genocide against the Congolese by Belgium, or the Bengal famine that was carried out by the British empire. In fact, denying those genocides will get you banned, here. However: we are also aware of a tendency of nations to project their crimes onto others, and to manufacture atrocity propaganda to justify overthrowing or destroying rival governments… like Libya in 2011:
From Washington Bullets by Vijay Prashad (a great book I highly recommend)
A post from Michael Parenti regarding the destruction of Libya by NATO-backed reactionaries
A headline shortly after Libya’s destruction by NATO-backed reactionaries
The US government has been reenacting the fable of the Boy Who Cried Wolf, and has been cynically leveraging the very serious accusation of genocide against its geopolitical enemies. This is the source of skepticism on Xinjiang. And this is not a new strategy, yes, the Holodomor, which everyone in the US has been taught to take seriously lately, is a nazi fabrication first spread to the United States in the works of Robert Conquest. Why would the USSR deliberately starve a fellow socialist Republic? Why would Stalin, a Georgian, have some kind of Russian chauvinist grudge against Ukrainians? Why would Lenin (Donbass), Stalin (Lviv), and Khruschev (Crimea) all expand the territory of the Ukrainian SSR while also trying to kill off the people inside of it? Why would the USSR ethnically cleanse Ukrainains while simultaneously sending food aid to the starving British colony in Bengal? Natural famines and crop failures were spun by the nazis into atrocity propaganda. Also, a state does not have to be perfect to be defended against false accuations. I think China is far from perfect, but the burden of proof is on the United States to prove its accusations (which have changed in scope several times) regarding Xinjiang. Delegations from Muslim majority nations visiting Xinjiang do not agree with the United States that there is a genocide of the Uyghur people. There is however an attempt to reeducate extremist groups like ETIM. Reeducating extremists might seem a harsh government policy, but I assure you it is a better way of dealing with religious fundamentalism than drone striking weddings or air striking hospitals like the USA did in Afghanistan.
It’s funny seeing Hexbears not understand how lemmy works. It’s hilarious seeing them angry over dissent.
I wonder if they even know that the developer of lemmy, dessalines, is a communist who releases communist audiobooks on their youtube channel and did an AMA on here
If libs paid attention to where their treats were coming from they wouldn’t be libs anymore
Yes, we are well aware.
omg its you! aint you tired. thing of all the productive things you could have done with your free time.
it’s Sunday.
you have a whole catalog of of post from us. also and i dont mean this as an insult as a fellow autistic person. almost all of your screenshot post are jokes. like your missing the jokes bud, your not gonna understand them from an outside perspective. also this is literally the nicest kindest least racist place place on the internet. it would be great if you could leave us alone. maybe get into a irl hobby. I like to write.
it’s actually from lemmygrad. don’t really care about hexbear. you can insult me as much as you want, my comrade, makes no difference to me.
well it should matter. how people treat you matters. maybe your spending too much time in these hate filled spaces, people should be kind to each other, you should be in a space where that is expected. and Lemmy.grad is our sister site and I care for them. plus ever since federation many users have been harassed including sexually harassed. Im not saying your post are sending them here but there are people on the internet who see it as a moral imperative to cause distress to our users, mostly our fem users. once you label someone and dehumanize them in your mind you can do anything to them. and thats whats been done to this community. you dont even see us as human beings just “tankies” to attack. maybe you could try to not spread negativity that has the potential to insight harm. I hope you really take this into consideration. plus if were all just teenage larper like yall say whats the harm? theres no real world impact if youre right. leave us be.
don’t really care about hexbear
Yet here you are.
Caring that much about not caring is transparently false.
cum
The lord’s day of rest. Naughty person. Go say a bunch of hail marys or something.
may we take prayer
cum
…And im alternating between drafting a webcomic, worldbuilding for a personal project, daily lifting, and studying for upcoming CompSci classes. Volunteered at a soup kitchen yesterday. Still have time to Post. Surely you’ve got something to do.
Oh that’s awesome! What’s it about?
just because you are doesn’t mean everyone is
hence the community
Then take the hint dipshit and fuck off back to the fash hole you crawled out of
Not a difficult concept to grasp even for social losers like you :)
you think im a fascist?
Are you aware of this?
i am aware of this too
cum
Shut up racist
It’s funny
It’s hilarious
I like it that
It’s ironic that
It’s weird that
so many fucking sentences start like that when smug liberals want to hide their rage behind more smugness.
It’s the lib version of using
in every post
Just going to throw out that the tankies at the… uhhh… US STATE DEPARTMENT have also said officially that there isn’t evidence for genocide in Xinjiang: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
If anyone calls you a genocide denier, throw out this one and see out they respond.
They won’t. I can’t get the fuckers to read the UN report, either. And good luck getting them to look in to any information on the 1932 famine that doesn’t come directly from Himmler of the OUN-B.
I remember one guy who posted the UN report as proof of genocide but the report itself didn’t say anything related to genocide.
I think sources are actually for trying to get people to exit the conversation, not actually assessing the continuity of evidence and argument.
the tankies at the… uhhh… US STATE DEPARTMENT
🤔 well come to think of it they did roll M1 Abrams into Iraq
I did find a type of guy who defined tankies as anyone who does wars that harm civilians in any way. Pure vibes.
Second Punic Tankies
The way that Rome conducted war is ironically a lot like how westerners believe the Soviet Union did. But the Romans are percieved as some kind of elite superforce who beat their enemies in 10-1 fights rather than simply having more soldiers in the vast amount of wars.
Yeah Romans really just were very good at mass producing bare minimum equipment and throwing massive amounts of men at problems. I remember reading something from Julius Caesar talking about how the German tribes had clearly superior armor but it was of no concern.
The trouble is that people look at a state and culture that lasted 2100 years in some form or other, and yet apply the same expectations to every part of their history.
Rome winning the Punic wars with an excess of manpower, and winning 10-1 engagements against vast gallic and Germanic armies were further away from each other than we are from the Napoleonic wars today.
My favorite guy is the “tankie is when you want there to be no war” guy
Legit had a liberal, when presented with the fact that the RAND corporation (the organisation that blurs the line between a US government agency and a private organisation which essentially set war policy in the Vietnam war for having kill counts as a metric for determining “success” in Vietnam, amongst other things) had released a paper that basically said that if the US wants to cripple the Chinese economy then what they’d need to do is to initiate a limited military conflict in the South China Sea within the next few years to disrupt the shipping lanes which China is largely dependent upon for foreign trade (before the Belt & Road Initiative gets away from the US and closes this window.)
The outcome, they determined, would be significantly more damaging to the Chinese economy than it would be to the US economy.
I stated that this has been around for some time now and it’s not a coincidence that the US is clamouring for war in the SCS and escalating in that region as much as possible without actually firing shots (yet).
What did the lib do?
You guessed it! It was obviously Sissypee tankie propaganda. From the RAND corporation.
I wish I had a fraction of the confidence of these shit-tier libs on the internet have because goddamn, the absolute balls to make the bald-faced claim that a corporation which would have extremely high US security clearance requirements and which has been directly influential over US policy for three quarters of a century is somehow now churning out pro-Chinese propaganda without anyone noticing or making a fuss over it.
It’s absolutely ridiculous the degree of information and knowledge that we are expected to bring to bear in a discussion and, upon presenting this info, the libs can summarily dismiss it for going against their narrative as Chinese propaganda (or tankie propaganda etc.) and they do it with zero evidence and zero familiarity with something like the RAND corporation’s history and function.
You’d legit get a military officer to burst out in laughter if you claimed that the RAND corporation was an arm of the CPC in front of them. And that’s a bad thing because I wish all US military a very unpleasant experience.
It’s absolutely ridiculous the degree of information and knowledge that we are expected to bring to bear in a discussion and, upon presenting this info, the libs can summarily dismiss it for going against their narrative as Chinese propaganda
Not to get too into the “is federation good?” topic in every thread, but it is able push back against this dynamic to an extent.
If you argue against western propaganda on reddit, the libs usually far outnumber you. They feel reassured by this local superiority, and readers without a firm position can easily interpret the exchange as one crazy tankie arguing with a bunch of sensible, moderate progressives. And of course if you thread the needle just right and get some traction the mods will just nuke the thread.
Here, libs have to argue on equal footing or worse. We usually outnumber them. And thus far across instances we’re federated with you don’t have too many mod removals of threads just because they successfully challenge the prevailing western narrative.
I like RAND corp documents, they are openly arguing for and against things which some people think are “unthinkable”. Then they print those up and distribute them in the typical US think tanks and places of governing power as well as archives (which is were I get them from mostly).
I don’t think this is actually a particularly good suggestion. It’s too easy to dodge with “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”. It doesn’t matter if they lack evidence of presence, because they’re not trying to be objective, they’re trying to be superior.
Genocide is a crime, and to prove a crime occurred you have to come up with evidence.
Throw that rules-based international order nonsense back in their face.
They do have a dumb saying for everything, don’t they?
The saying’s not dumb, only the application
I feel like this connects back to the liberal need to erase anyone left of them, because otherwise they can’t pretend to be the good guys
also this:
The kitten-burners seem to fulfill some urgent need. They give us someone we can clearly and correctly say we’re better than. Their extravagant cruelty makes us feel better about ourselves because we know that we would never do what they have done. They thus function as signposts of depravity, reassuring the rest of us that we’re Not As Bad As them, and thus letting us tell ourselves that this is the same thing as us being good.
Its this.
Actually hearing from people to the left of them forces them to grapple with the idea that they aren’t benevolent humanitarian they’re just slightly less racist imperialists.
Reddit was perfect from them because it banned anybody who would critique them from the left so they literally thought they were “as progressive as they come”
Yeah, I deny the white genocide.
After everything I’ve done :(
I know what your handle is going for
But imagining the taste and texture of mayonnaise cider is making me nauseous
Of course their community image is a fucking racist caricature lol
noooooooo you don’t understand, it’s not racist, it’s just making fun of xi jinping because he got really mad and banned winnie the pooh. “source?” what do you mean “source?”
I can trawl Shanghai Disney world for like millions of Winnie the Pooh pics they literally are just parrots
the real crime is that china allows d*sney to exist inside its borders at all
Which genocide do they say we deny?
Holodomor, and Uyghurs in Xinjiang.
Xinjiang and Ukraine (both past and present) mainly
Because as we all know, Genocide is when other countries do things that the West doesn’t like
Whereas if Ukrainians are systemically oppressing and killing the Russian-speaking minority in the East, that’s just protecting themselves and their national identity, which is good
All right-wing politics is projection.
Even Stephen Kotkin (the lib), who is a highly esteemed academic historian (professor at Princeton), said what happened in Ukraine in the 30s wasn’t genocide in his Stalin biography. The only revisionism that’s happening here is libs pretending that there is a consensus about calling it a genocide among academic historians.
All of these actions were woefully insufficient for avoiding the mass starvation in the countryside caused by his policies, in the face of challenging natural conditions. Still, these actions do not indicate that he was trying to exterminate peasants or ethnic Ukrainians.
Stalin: Waiting for Hitler, 1929-1941 by Stephen Kotkin published in October 2017 by Penguin Random House
Here’s Mark Tauger’s takedown of Applebaum’s Holodomor book:
Some might ask whether Applebaum’s writing is more accessible to “non-specialist” readers. There are many excellent writers among Slavic specialists, and a more accurate account could easily have been presented in clear and simple language. Applebaum’s writing does not “simplify” the truth, it obscures it, as discussed in this review. Red Famine thus does not fit well in the existing scholarly literature, even as “popular history.” Its interpretation resembles that of Conquest’s Harvest of Sorrow, and it does use recent published sources that provide vivid descriptions of many people’s experiences in the famine. But it leaves out too much important information, has false claims on key points, and draws unjustified conclusions on important issues based on incomplete use of sources, making it not even close to the level of genuine scholarship, like Davies and Wheatcroft’s Years of Hunger. Red Famine is better characterized by a passage from Peter Kenez’s book on The Birth of the Propaganda State: “propaganda often means telling less than the truth, misleading people … manipulating and distorting information, lying” and addresses “audiences in simple language…”
Even Robert Conquest amended his position after the release of the Soviet archives that the Soviet famine of the 1930s wasn’t genocide.
Why would the USSR deliberately starve a fellow socialist Republic? Why would Stalin, a Georgian, have some kind of Russian chauvinist grudge against Ukrainians? Why would Lenin (Donbass), Stalin (Lviv), and Khruschev (Crimea) all expand the territory of the Ukrainian SSR while also trying to kill off the people inside of it?
My key question: Why would Stalin stop? If the Holodomor was a deliberate attempt to genocide the Ukrainian people, it would be to my knowledge the only genocide in the history of the world where the perpetrator just randomly decided to stop the genocidal actions and never again make any attempt to restart it for the next 30 years of his life.
There are opportunistic genocides around famines (not in this case, of course) where the attempt is taken because it is easy and not pursued further when it is difficult. Britain did this multiple times around the world.
Well we do, but only for Genocides that everyone, including the United Nations and prominent sane anti-communist historians say didn’t happen, or didn’t happen the way the Nazis say they did.
Acording to peepee we poopoo
Like half of the posts in this site in recent times
that one is true though. famously we poopoo
remember when we had a vote on federation with them and it was like 75% “absolutely the fuck not”
and then they had another vote and it came out like 6 people ahead in favor and they were like “well the people have spoken, all system go”
well now here we are
https://hexbear.net/post/458637
111 votes for adding sh.itjust.works to the allow-list
60 to vote for keeping the allow-list as is
that is not 6 people ahead it is almost double
https://hexbear.net/post/335632
Here is the first vote, a quick count shows it to be much closer than the recent one with a good handful asking to wait for next month, which was 2 weeks ago so maybe the admins should’ve waited another week to do another vote.
Yeah I really don’t get why we bother federating with anyone other than lemmygrad, the startrek one and maybe lemmy.ml. We hate them they hate us what’s the fucking point?
Sounds less democratic than Napoleon’s plebiscite justifying his ascension to emperor.
The chud bible:
- Horseshoe theory
- Double genocide theory
- The black book of communism
- Whataboutism
Probably half of the accusations of genocide I see online against the Soviet Union are a form of Double Genocide Theory, which has been long recognized by actual Holocaust memorial groups as a form of genocide denial.
It’s wrong to deny wild accusations from untrustworthy actors that have insubstantial evidence to support them, tankies. Yes I believe there’s a genocide against white people in North America, do you disagree?
