• boredtortoise@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    31
    ·
    1 year ago

    Where to even start.

    Finland is not banning red flags, golden stars, singing workers’ songs etc. There’s no reason or legal possibilities to persecute communism even if the fascist aligned cabinet hints at it in their small false equivalence minds.

    What actually is being investigated is if fascist insignia, for example from Nazis and the Soviet Union, can be prohibited.

    But wow those comments are insane

    • Akasazh@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      Indeed the straight up drank the koolaid.

      The plan is aimed at combating racism and anti-Semitism, including a new law to criminalise Holocaust denial and plans to possibly ban Nazi and Communist symbols – although that could prove legally difficult.

      It’s quite hard to even find a decent source for this that isn’t clickbaity, here’s mine: https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/31/finnish-government-renounces-racism-after-a-summer-rocked-by-racist-scandals

      It’s racism they are denouncing, not communism per se.

      • goatOPM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        25
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        The Soviet Union was fascist–or authoritarian, if you prefer semantics.

        • Barbarian
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          16
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Fascist is more than just authoritarian, there’s a lot of other components (fetishization of the military, an obsession with returning to the “good old days”, portraying scapegoats as simultaneously unbeatably strong and pathetically weak, etc)

          The USSR was authoritarian, but not fascist.

          EDIT: To clarify, I’m no fan of the USSR and their actions to put it mildly, but we shouldn’t dilute the word fascist by making it a synonym for authoritarianism.

          • goatOPM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            15
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            The Soviet Union’s propaganda and culture tick all of those, though.

            But fair, I typically use authoritarian anyway.

            • MxM111@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              I do not think so. There was no “return to the good old days” in USSR at all. The ideology, while was stressing the importance to defend itself, did not fetishized the military. Nationalism was also missing. And instead there was class fight, common means of production, etc. It was quite different. The only common part was the authoritarian government and the principle that the state is greater than individual.

                • MxM111@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I lived there. No, military was not fetishized. Most of the people would not want to go and serve. The draft was something to avoid if you can.

                  • goatOPM
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    You lived there? How old are you?

              • goatOPM
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                Isn’t doing things for the sake of the state nationalism?

                • MxM111@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  You do not do that for the sake of state. You do that for the collective. State is just bureaucratic representation of that. In fascist Germany you would do that for the Germany and German nation specifically. In USSR you do not do that for USSR or USSR nation (there was no such thing).

                • PugJesus@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Generally that’s regarded as civic nationalism (“People are bound together by a common government”), whereas most people think of ethnic nationalism (“People are bound together by common descent or culture”) when they speak of nationalism. Though there is a strong argument to be made for the SovUnion being an extension of Russian domination over other ethnicities, just like the Russian Empire which preceded it.

              • Akagigahara@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                There was the idea of bringing the revolution to others. While mostly after Stalin, the USSR heavily engaged in combat to exert its influence. The Korean and Vietnamese Civil Wars were proxy wars in which both the US and the USSR were engaged in. Then there was the soviet invasion of Afghanistan, too.

                Their propaganda has a lot of hints of glorifying the military, sacrifice and fanaticism.

          • bioemerl@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            China, with it s having a system of private capital solidly co-opted and kept under the thumb of the government, far more aligns with the definition of fascism than the Soviet Union did

          • Akagigahara@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            I think the only thing the USSR didn’t do when it comes to that fascism checklist is “returning to the good old days”. Other than that, Soviets fetishized the military and used scapegoats, too.

            For the scapegoats it was most often the capitalists. The propaganda they used is very similar to Nazi and Imperial Japanese propaganda.

            The USSR’s political structure was more fascist and totalitarian than authoritarian.

          • boredtortoise@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            For when a distinction is needed, I’ve seen the term pseudo-fascist being used. It’s quite fitting and works in modern contexts as well

          • glad_cat@lemmy.sdf.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            fetishization of the military, an obsession with returning to the “good old days”, portraying scapegoats as simultaneously unbeatably strong and pathetically weak, etc

            You’ve perfectly described Russia since WW2.

      • vlad@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        Hear me out. The terms don’t matter. Both the Nazis and the Soviets were/are fanatics. They used whatever *ism they aligned with to do the same exact thing. They tried to take over other nations to control the citizens of those countries to spread their ways of thinking. They used exactly the same techniques that led to the same kind of genocide on both sides.

        You could even expand it to what the US did during the cold war, and you can definitely see that China is doing the same thing now. They even have their own genocide that they’ve committed just recently.

        So, at this point there’s nothing wrong with using terms that combine Nazis, Soviets, and socialist regimes in general.