Thanks a lot, dude. Gonna be hearing about this from the right for forever
Yep. Shitty, stupid move. Should be censured for it.
No, minor issue. Don’t let it distract from the fact that Republicans can’t even pass their own budget, or even a stopgap measure.
Republicans can’t govern because they have no policies besides tax cuts for the rich.
Minor or not, it was simply a dumb thing to do. I’m not saying he did a terrible thing, but it was stupid and an unforced error that gave Republicans ammo. Censuring is basically just formally being told you did something bad and warned to knock it off.
Imagine what Republicans will say if he doesn’t get any response at all.
The sad fact is, Republicans could be spending all day, every day, raping puppies, but it’s the fire alarm thing that would get all the press attention, and they damn well know it. Democrats have to be held to a higher standard than the puppy-rapers, because we know exactly how everyone will respond when they’re not. It’s unfair and stupid, but that doesn’t change anything, unfortunately.
Imagine what Republicans will say if he doesn’t get any response at all.
It doesn’t matter what they say. They are going to say something negative about Democrats either way.
This is actually good because they can focus on this minor issue, blow it out of proportion, and look like idiots. Democrats should just respond with:
“He was pulling the alarm to wake up the Republican leadership. Our government needs to be funded as fast as possible.”
Sadly, it does matter what they say, if it’s something that news outlets will blast 24 hours a day.
It doesn’t matter. Not only is it only going to be covered for 5 minutes, no one is going to vote based on this issue. Democrats can literally ignore it.
I hope you’re right. It would be nice not to worry about stupid shit anymore. But it was still a dumb thing to do.
I can confirm, this doesn’t change my vote. It’ll be a non-story.
I don’t think what Bowman did was smart, but giving ammo to Republicans genuinely doesn’t matter. Republicans are currently trying to impeach Biden for literally nothing. If you act perfectly and give them no ammo, then they’ll just straight-up make up bullshit instead.
My point is that that’s what we should force them to do: Flail around and scream about nothing because they have nothing. It makes them look desperate, childish, and stupid. We shouldn’t make their lives easier by giving them anything they can rant about that’s in any way connected to reality.
This is nothing. The immediate association is “something a kid does to get out of a test”. I fucking welcome them going all in on the grave offense of pulling a fire alarm so they could actually read the legislation. PLEASE Republicans, publicize the shit out of this.
Imagine what Republicans will say if he doesn’t get any response at all.
What are Republicans saying about the fact that Trump is a fraudster and a rapist, that MTG spreads the most idiotic anti-semitic conspiracy theories and that Bobert gets tossed out of a theater for smoking, hollering, getting her boobs grabbed and giving a guy a hand job? What are Republicans saying about the fact George Santos is an obvious liar, huckster and fraud who has been charged with fraud, money laundering, theft of public funds, and making false statements?
What response did that get from Republicans - as compared to, say, the response Al Franken got from Democrats?
And where’s the benefit for Democrats in acting in good faith when dealing with an opponent that doesn’t even know the meaning of the term “good faith?”
Is hating transgender people and drag queens a policy position?
Now 6 hours later when it’s passed the senate: LOL.
I understand they needed to read the bill (or frankly needed an AI to review the differences), but pulling the fire alarm was probably not needed.
It’s the thing Republicans can’t understand though: he’s “our team” but we don’t care and the appropriate charges should be pressed.
I mean technically he didn’t actually do much.
IANAL but didn’t he obstruct Congress?
Wow I hate that acronym!
False alarms are against the law regardless of it being an attempt to fuck with Congress. Which is probably why an aid wouldn’t do it for him. They knew they’d at least lose their job, and possibly get fined or have a few days in jail.
I for one LOVE that the not a lawyer acronym sounds like an Asimov porn parody 😂
But if he did it to give the representatives the opportunity to read the bill they were about to vote on to make sure that they’re not being tricked by the Republicans — then he was supporting Congress
Hello anal I’m dad.
More seriously, it seems like it’d be a pain to prove, since he has a (shitty) excuse.
In some jurisdictions, false reporting of emergencies is illegal. Not sure about DC or the halls of Congress.
The proverbial false yelling of “fire” in crowded theater is literally one of the test examples for limitations that should be placed on free speech because it is so dangerous.
Profoundly stupid. Your hapless opponents are creating all the bad press they can for you. How did he possibly think this would help?
Yelling fire in a crowded theater has been protected speech since the 60s
Okay so apparently he did it so the senate could actually read the bill they were signing as there was no time before the government shutdown so that adds interesting context at least.
Yeah I think he should probably get a stern talking to from a fire marshal and punished if he does it again
Paid off.
That explanation that he didn’t think it would set off an alarm has to be the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while. At least as dumb as the fact that the government is going to shut down because of a few moronic house members.
Charges should be pressed, IMO. Whatever the law says about pulling a fire alarm when there’s no fire. No idea what the code is but he shouldn’t be above the law.
Obstructing an official proceeding. Federal felony, what many of the January 6th defendants were charged with. Potential penalty of up to 20 years in prison. Of course, in practice the results will be much less severe.
Pretty much. He was trying to bide a bit of time in a moronic way in order to give democrats more than 5 minutes to look at the 45 day budget bill the Republicans were trying to immediately force a vote on before it could be read at all. Surprise surprise, one of the first crooked things found in it was a raise to give themselves.
The proof of the case for January 6 defendants involves the fact that they were overrunning police barricades and very obviously intending to disrupt the proceeding.
I wonder if the prosecution think there’s enough proof as to the distinguished gentleman’s case, where his intent is muted by the desire not to disrupt but to ensure compliance with the duly enacted house rules.
Shit show.
Depending on what wmthw Republican cunts tried to sneak into it, the gentleman may be morally justified, or even morally obliged.
Obstruction of congress too
There are all sorts of congressmen that could get that charge. Let’s start with those that ignored congressional subpoenas.
Or the one that just showed revenge porn in front of Congress?
Did she do it a second time?
Absolutely.
Yeah, what an absolute dumbass. And no one in office should get special treatment.
“No one in this country is above the law – including former President Trump.” - Rep. Bowman
STOP GIVING THE RIGHT AMMO YOU FUCKING DUMBASS!
In any case, isn’t this basically the whole “yelling fire in a crowded theater” example of speech that isn’t protected and is explicitly criminal? Charge his ass.
The story I’m hearing elsewhere is he pulled the alarm to delay the vote, as Republicans are violating their “72 hours to read the bill” rule they agreed to at the start of this Congressional term.
While I don’t condone the actions, the result was a delay, long enough for representatives to read a bill they are voting on, which is something that should always be allowed.
I just find it hilarious that it’s a former school principal that pulled this shit. He’s probably expelled kids for doing the same.
At the same time, he finally gets to experience the hilarity of it.
That certainly adds interesting context.
I previously read that the 72 page bill was given to House members initially with only about an hour before the vote to read and review it so that helps me make more sense of it than my own face value first conclusion.
If only people got this riled up whenever the other side broke the rules…
The fucking rage of people doing minor dumbshit stuff for kind of good reasons. Won’t someone think of the precious norms.
I’ll own it: I over reacted.
The older I get, the more critical I realize politics is - when we fuck up, people lose their rights and push our planet closer and closer to non-life-supporting, so seeing dumb shit from the left is especially aggravating cuz that’s where our hope is. Dig through my recent posts and you’ll find several chewing out Feinstein, and it’s for the same reason. We cannot afford that shit in today’s political environment - the stakes are just too high.
Yeah, but in this case it seems like the dude was rushing back to fund the government and made a genuine mistake because he was in a hurry.
Reading a bill is part of a normal procedure and the outcome is more important. So, while I don’t condone the action, at the end of the day, if the outcome benefits people other than himself, then I can understand his action. The thing is they weren’t given enough time to read as Republicans violated their own 72 hours to read the bill rule.
Unless it’s a felony they’re immune to prosecution while im session.
Well, shit. Now they’re all going to do it. Lol
I think McCarthy just found out the only way to stay in power. Every time Gaetz tries to file a motion to vacate the speakership, McCarthy will just pull the fire alarm.
Are they in session while walking the halls?
In session is all time not in recess. They are also protected traveling to D.C. from their home district.
Thank you for clarifying. Could not remember for the life of me.
There’s only two sessions a year. The reason the shutdown extension has to happen now is the session is about to adjourn.
Yelling fire in a crowded theater has been protected speech for decades now.
…when there’s an actual fire, right? Otherwise your just endangering people by causing a crowd to panic.
Edit - looked it up, goes back to Schenck v. United States, which basically states that the context of otherwise protected speech can render it criminal. The case wasn’t about shouting fire in a theater, but it produced that example to illustrate their reasoning.
Huh. I wonder if any injuries that occured would fall under that. Like if someone yelled fire and you got trampled by a panicked crowd and broke a few bones… would yelling fire in that case be assault?
Initial post stands - charge his ass! …but now more from curiosity to see what the courts would do with it than anything else.
… or yelled “Stop the steal, storm the captial” and someone got trampled to death.
And someone else was shot by law enforcement because they tried to follow those orders. (The fact she wasn’t innocent doesn’t excuse the instigator of her death)
No, because the words aren’t intended to incite lawless acts.
But, falsely pulling a fire alarm and saying words are two different things, and he can and should be charged for it.
This is not at all correct. The issue in Schenk wasn’t whether you could or could not falsely shout fire in a crowded theater.
You may not falsely yell fire in a crowded theater. Doing so is a criminal breach of peace.
Schenk and Brandenberg are incitement cases. Not being able to falsely yell fire in a crowded theater is axiomatic proof that the framer’s intent wasn’t to ban limits on speech that obviously serves no valid free speech purpose, such as falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater.
You absolutely have the right to truly yell fire in a crowded theater, though no duty to do so!
Did you not read the quote and source I provided that shows that I am correct?
You read it wrong. You may not falsely shout fire in a crowded theater. You obviously don’t have a lot of experience reading legal cases. It’s okay.
I did not read it wrong. It clearly states that the 69 case narrowed the scope so shouting fire in a crowded theater is no longer unprotected.
No, the case was about protesting war.
So, whenever you use this trope, you continue to support the idea that protesting war is criminal and protesters should be imprisoned.
I don’t think most people who hear the “fire in a crowded theater” line are going to think it’s about protesting war. It’s an example when speech can have an immediate harmful effect that seems to have a lot more relevance to the discussion of limitations on expression.
No, it is about people fundamentally misunderstanding the case and continuing to misuse a paraphrasing of a dictum, or non-binding statement, from Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. Incorrectly, acting as if it was a an actually point if law.
If used correctly, then it would be about protesting war. But people rarely understand what was said under Schenck v. United States, nor do they understand that it was overturned.
Brandenburg v. Ohio changed the standard to which speecg speech could be prosecuted only when it posed a danger of “imminent lawless action,” a formulation which is sometimes said to reflect Holmes reasoning as more fully explicated in his Abrams dissent, rather than the common law of attempts explained in Schenck.
Fire in a theater is meaningless and useless.
“Free speech is yelling theater in a crowded fire.”
You would have to prove intent, which is almost impossible. I accidentally set off a fire alarm once. The relevant signage was totally ambiguous and not even remotely clear.
That actually is protected speech. Brandenburg v. Ohio
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Many people are saying he pulled the alarm because McCarthy’s pants were on fire
oooooh that’s a good one
But were his plants for hire?
You would know, liar!
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Dude, this is what your Congressional aids are for…
seems like most people owe this guy an apology. the signage was genuinely confusing / missing according to the images and recordings. he legit was trying to get out.
Following reports of Bowman pulling the fire alarm, his spokesperson released a statement claiming he “did not realize he would trigger a building alarm as he was rushing to make an urgent vote. The Congressman regrets any confusion.”
I don’t even understand how this non-answer even makes any logical sense.
It looked too similar to the “Vote” button. Better documentation is definitely needed.
he “did not realize he would trigger a building alarm as he was rushing to make an urgent vote. The Congressman regrets any confusion.”
huh?
Translation: “He really, really didn’t think this through and would like everyone to forget about it.”
Seems like “I tripped and fell on him/her” kind of reasoning.
It was a coincidence that we were both naked and penetration occurred because of the fall, and continued for some time after.
while hanging onto the fire alarm
There are call buttons all over the capital, these buttons announce critical votes and do things like bring elevators faster. When I was a kid I used to push them all the time until someone saw me do it. I think that was behind his meaning.
Well that would make more sense. Do the fire alarms resemble the other buttons that much? Seems like a design flaw.
Also
I used to push them all the time until someone saw me do it.
LOL well played to your former self
I’m sure you can understand that these buildings are old and a lot of systems have been put in place later. So it’s not like anything is standardized. I was more on the Senate side, so couldn’t tell about the House.
Between this idiot and Menendez refusing to resign after his second corruption investigation, the Dems are having a bad week, not even sure what Bowman was thinking, but punishment must be swift and severe, because the Right wing clout chasers are already chirping about it.
I thought it was Menendez’s THIRD investigation?
Aha, third INVESTIGATION, second INDICTMENT.
2006 - Investigation
2015 - Investigation + Indictment
2023
What an idiot
I can’t say it was a great move, but on the other hand he fucking did something
He did worse than nothing, this was just boneheaded.
I’m with you on this. This was a real dumb thing to do. Like, sitcom protagonist thinking.
But when you look at the stakes - extremely minor risk of injury, disruption to operations, and risk of a minor punishment… the stakes on the action don’t compare to the stakes of the vote on the table. Effectively, maybe he just took one for the team.
If it sounds dumb but it works…
it wasn’t dumb at all. look at the pictures of the signage at the time. it was genuinely confusing.
I don’t think it was in the article, can you link me?
I actually just saw a picture of it… It’s literally the standard fire alarm used country-wide in public buildings (you know, a red plastic square that says fire, with an awkward to pull handle) next to a normal double door with push bars leading outside. Why would he be rushing outside so conveniently anyways?
I think he took one for the team, and I respect it. No one was hurt, and in the context of the situation I think his actions were morally valid
Of course he claimed it was an accident… It would be idiotic not to. I know it wasn’t, he knows it wasn’t, anyone who looks at the door knows it wasn’t. The only way to prove it was intentional is for him to admit that… Which could turn a small fine into a whole pubic spectacle
Spreading the white lie is inaccurate and harms discourse, unlike his dubious excuse…This is a “read between the lines” sort of situation
The signage posted was literally a “dead dont inside open” situation. I wasnt referring to the actual alarm mechanism.
IDK wtf that could possibly mean… it’s literally a normal door with a fire alarm next to it. The only words involved are “fire” on the tiny plastic alarm that is standard everywhere I’ve ever seen, and exit (which I didn’t see, but I presume was on the ceiling behind the camera, as this is a nationwide building standard)
Do you have a picture of this confusing signage? I’d love to see it, because the one I saw paints a pretty clear picture (in which again, I support his actions, including the white lie…I just don’t support spreading a lie in a misguided attempt at solidarity)
Very shameful thing to do.
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Yeah I’m totally down for Democrats to get shitty and break rules to defeat conservatives, but it has to be effective. This is not.
It gave their staffs time to read the bill the Republicans were trying to ram through
It gave them enough time to read the book so it was actually very effective. Also, the signage is actually confusing so it’s joking like it might have been a genuine mistake.
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Lol you’re nuts. I’m most definitely not a Republican. This guy is an idiot
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Way wrong, this is unacceptable behavior.
Jeffries needs to kick his ass off his committees at minimum. What an embarrassment.
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I hope not … If democrats have to do the same things to win … then I don’t want to vote democrat anymore …
And they’re already only SLIGHTLY less bad then the reps …
This country is fucked
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I thought it said “pulling fire arm” and was very confused.
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