The death toll means around ten percent of the kibbutz’s population was wiped out

The bodies of more than 100 people were discovered by volunteers in a single, small Israeli village Monday — including those of children — believed to have been killed by Hamas militants caught on camera.

The remains were discovered in Be’eri, or Bari, a kibbutz in southern Israel close to Gaza. It’s one of the villages Hamas militants invaded on Saturday as they began their attack on the country.

“Today the volunteers entered Kibbutz Bari and it is impossible to explain in words the terrible sights - some were adults, some were children. These are horrors that cannot be grasped in the mind or soul,” a spokesperson for Zaka search and rescue told IDF radio.

  • jcit878@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    126
    arrow-down
    47
    ·
    1 year ago

    Hamas thought this operation would change everything.

    They were right, but not in the way they expected. All they’ve done is turn soft sympathisers like myself away from their cause. They deserve everything they get and it’s not going to be pretty. The Palestinian who will be killed during crossfire are on Hamas hands this time and the rest of the world will see it that way. absolute own goal, so they could… massacre a bunch of civilians. Hamas showing military genius of the likes of Russia

    • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      No, the Gaza residents don’t deserve collective punishment, and that is what Hamas wants. They want Israel to overreact and clamp down. They want videos of their dead children and women across all media. This is part of the tried and true strategy of big guy vs little guy conflicts, and guess what it NEVER WORKS… for the big guy.

      How did 9/11 work out for Osama Bin Laden? Better then he could have ever even dreamed of.

      You can’t kill your way out of this kind of conflict. The only ways out are A) complete genocide or B) political resolutions and bringing them to the table.

      Neither Bibi, nor Hamas, want option B, and they’re both hoping that eventually option A will work out in their favor.

      • Pasta4u@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        You just contradict yourself. You can’t kill your way out of this kind of conflict. Then you say you can complete genocide. So you can kill your way out of this.

        That is likely what they are going to do. Starve out and destroy Gaza so everyone leaves. Then enter it and take it over and build another wall woth even more guns and keep pushing new walls further back to make the balstics Hamas use less effective.

        • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          This conflict is Israel vs Hamas, at least on paper. So even if Israel ramps up strikes without care of civilian death, that is still different then an actual intentional and systemic genocide.

          So no, Israel cannot kill it’s way out of this current conflict.

          • Pasta4u@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Of course they can and they are doing it. They are going to destroy Gaza block by block until everyone has fled or is killed and there is nothing but rubble to go back too. Then Isreal will just take over the land and move in.

            • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              I understand that is ultimate dream of Bibi, Ben-Gvir, and a disturbingly large number of genocidal zealots that support them, but no, that is not going to be what happens with this specific conflict at this time.

              Eventually, they will withdraw from Gaza and leave the millions of Palestinians left to starve and suffer in the rubble.

              Let’s say, hypothetically, that Hamas was actually somehow destroyed, every leader killed, and 200k fighters dead. What kind of organization do you think would rise up to replace it?

              • Pasta4u@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Looks like they are doing a pretty good job if leveling Gaza right now and don’t appear to be stopping anytime soon

      • wanderingmagus@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        Option A won’t work out for them if they and their buddies cease existing and the strip is radioactive glass. Same with their buddies Hezbollah. And Israel, regardless of strategic ambiguity, almost certainly has the capability to pull it off.

        • Cethin@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          Lol. Pretending like nuking them is an option is the most sadistic and stupid thing I’ve seen. They’d be nuking themselves. Radiation doesn’t stay in place, and also presumably they want to control that area too. These takes make everyone a little dumber.

          • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Nah bro. I’m pretty sure radioactive fallout respects territorial integrity and has a strict lines on maps approach to how it gets distributed post detonation.

            So as long as Israel gives its nukes clear orders not to float over and contaminate Israeli territory, they should be good.

            Yep, just a stern talking to and those nukes will take care of the rest.

            Oh, and he’s not pretending to not understand, he really doesn’t because he’s really, really, and I mean seriously, stupid.

        • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Setting aside your own genocidal fantasies, which are beyond fucked up, I think you should pick up a map of the region and look at it. Like really look at it.

          And if, within 10 secs, you don’t understand just how incredibly dumb your idea is, I think you should immediately get a vasectomy, because that would mean you’re way way way too stupid to ever be allowed to reproduce.

          Please, for the sake of the world, snip snip.

          • wanderingmagus@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            9
            ·
            1 year ago

            I am a member of the United States Navy SSBN force, trained to set condition 1SQ for Strategic Launch of thermonuclear warheads if and when called upon to do so without hesitation. Each missile is capable of carrying in excess of ten multiple independent reentry vehicles, and each warhead is capable of at least ten times the power of Hiroshima.

            What do you do for a living?

            • Cethin@lemmy.zip
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              ·
              1 year ago

              Wow. You probably shouldn’t hold that position if you actually do. Do you know what a nuke is? Do you know what happens to radioactive material after the explosion?

              when called upon to do so without hesitation.

              We have a few great heroes in our history who saved the world by hesitating when that call was made. If you think you shouldn’t hesitate, you’re bad for the position. You might be told that’s what you’re supposed to do, but it isn’t. You need to ensure the call is legitimate for legitimate reasons before you doom humanity.

              People like you worry me. You’re so confident in some bullshit that you think it means anything at all. You clearly have no idea of the repercussions of a single nuclear attack is, let alone what happens if there’s a response.

              • wanderingmagus@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                I know the yield of a Trident II D5 missile’s REVs, yes. I know the entire sequence from receipt of an EAM to reentry and detonation. I’ve read the CJCS instructions and all other governing documentation.

                It is not my job or that of any sailor or officer on an SSBN to determine the legitimacy of the reason, only that the EAM is in fact valid and authentic in accordance with procedure and governing documentation. To think otherwise is naive, and got at least one officer kicked off the ship.

                My job is simple. When I’m told to man battle stations missile for Strategic Launch, I man battle stations missile for Strategic Launch. When I am ordered to set condition 1SQ by the CO and XO, I set condition 1SQ in accordance with procedure and governing documentation as quickly as possible while remaining within procedural guidance.

                • Cethin@lemmy.zip
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I know the yield of a Trident II D5 missile’s REVs, yes. I know the entire sequence from receipt of an EAM to reentry and detonation. I’ve read the CJCS instructions and all other governing documentation.

                  Then you’re aware of what would happen upon detonation in Gaza. You shouldn’t be dumb enough to wish to use it on them. You really shouldn’t be dumb enough to wish to use it ever, but I know your type.

                  These are two of the world’s greatest heroes. We’re all here today likely because they disobeyed orders.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Arkhipov

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

                  I know you’re supposed to obey any lawful order, but a few have not and saved many for it. There will almost certainly be consequences for it, but any good person would still at least consider the risk to self to save many.

                  It is not my job or that of any sailor or officer on an SSBN to determine the legitimacy of the reason, only that the EAM is in fact valid and authentic in accordance with procedure and governing documentation. To think otherwise is naive, and got at least one officer kicked off the ship.

                  The end of this I agree with. You will be kicked off the ship. However, it is your duty to consider if an order is lawful. If you’re asked to kill unarmed civilians, for example, then that’s an unlawful order and can be disobeyed. However, it seems you aren’t in a direct line for the call being made to the launch, so it doesn’t really matter.

            • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              1 year ago

              Yep, you definitely should snip snip. Please, for the sake of world’s gene pool.

              • wanderingmagus@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                11
                ·
                1 year ago

                Nah, my shipmates already have dozens of children, all slated to enlist or commission in the most powerful nuclear navy in the world when they are eligible. You should’ve seen Family Day on the pier. Our next generation of recruits are already on their way and lining up, our next strategic weapons platforms are already being built and slated for DASO in the next few years. Just earlier this year, we surfaced SSBNs in both Faslane, Scotland and Busan, South Korea, and an SSGN in Perth, Australia. Our SSNs are everywhere lurking beneath the waves, and our Seawolves are listening and stalking wherever they’re needed.

                So stand down, civilian. There’s no stopping this war machine.

                • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  8
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Holy shit. You’re easily one of the dumbest and most delusional people I’ve ever come across on Lemmy, or even Reddit.

                  Or, you’re a very committed and very bored troll.

                  Either way, there’s definitely something special about you. So… congrats?

                • Cethin@lemmy.zip
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  7
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  I come from a military family. You thinking serving makes you better than a civilian is the biggest issue with many who serve. However, most who serve don’t believe this. I live in a very heavy USN area and most don’t think serving makes them smarter or better. Most do it because they like the civilians, not because they hate them. Many also do it for the benefits. If you’re serving to make up for your lack of manhood, you’re doing it for the wrong reasons.

                  The military answers to the civilians, not the other way around.

                • Kitty Jynx@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Shut up boot, you are either new to the fleet or everyone else in your shop hates you. It’s probably both.

    • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      63
      arrow-down
      40
      ·
      1 year ago

      Israel at least shows an attempt to target military and government buildings, where as Hamas always aims for civilians. And they use their own people as human shields. It’s gotten harder and harder to sympathize, and keep seeing their point of view.

      • iforgotmyinstance@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        51
        arrow-down
        10
        ·
        1 year ago

        Lmao what? They cut off water to civilians. It’s over. Palestinian women and children are going to be dying in massive numbers over the next week.

        That doesn’t even begin to include the number of Palestinian civilians being shelled to oblivion in the supposed “safe areas” designated by the authorities.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        40
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        Israel at least shows an attempt to target military and government buildings,

        They’re not doing that right now, that’s for sure.

        • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          17
          ·
          1 year ago

          Maybe something about blowing through the border like a bunch of orcs and murdering, raping and pillaging that makes you the bad guy. Where’s the news story of Israel officials blowing up the wall, murdering innocent people and foreigners at a music festival while stripping them and parading them through the streets?

          • Madison420@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            18
            arrow-down
            9
            ·
            1 year ago

            Maybe something about blowing through the border like a bunch of orcs and murdering, raping and pillaging that makes you the bad guy

            So the idf?

            • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              arrow-down
              7
              ·
              1 year ago

              Show me the report of Israeli forces parading a naked foreigner through the streets after blowing up a music festival

              • Madison420@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                10
                arrow-down
                8
                ·
                1 year ago

                Oh you got me that specific thing I can’t show because why could I? I can do the same, show me one instance of a Palestinian executing a us citizen by bulldozer for 15 minutes.

        • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Far be it for me to defend the IDF, but Hamas does go out of its way to create civilian death delimeas for Israel, such as using news buildings and hospitals for critical operations centers. It’s a win/win, either Israel won’t destroy that Hamas infrastructure, or they literally blow up journalists and hospitals.

          I’m not even saying this to cast judgement one way, or another, it’s just an objective statement of fact and these tactics are incredibly effective for the type of conflict they’re engaged in.

          • hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            11
            ·
            1 year ago

            If it’s an objective statement of fact then you can definitely provide sources where third parties have confirmed that information to be true, right?

      • Madison420@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        31
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        Bro they’re been demolishing civilian infrastructure for decades, most of the time Palestinian Gaza does not have power because Israel bombs the power station.

      • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        23
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Hamas is shit but no yeah Israel kills thousands of civilians every year. They’ve killed 22 journalists in 20 years. They have hit news buildings with rockets, once calling for an evacuation first, for whatever fucking reason they had to hit those buildings I guess. Israel is an apartheid state. No, Hamas isn’t giving a proper response.

      • ∟⊔⊤∦∣≶@lemmy.nz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        22
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s for this human shield behaviour that this could be the beginning of the end for the whole of Palestine. Israel doesn’t care anymore, so any civilians are going to be in the firing line too. All Hamas needs to do to bring about the end of Palestine is to keep using Palestinians as meat shields.

      • prole
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        18
        arrow-down
        16
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Literally the opposite. Like in black and white, in the data on death tolls since 1948 or whenever you want to start counting. Palestine doesn’t have a military, Israel doesn’t allow them to. How would they be targeted if they don’t exist? Every. Single. Time. Someone from

        Hamas does something stupid out of desperation, takes out a couple Israeli soldiers, and Israel responds by slaughtering hundreds to thousands of Palestinian civilians. Completely disproportionate in every way.

        Like it’s kind of wild how much gall it takes to straight up REVERSE a statistic like that, and state it as fact. You should be ashamed of yourself.

        • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          https://twitter.com/UNSCO_MEPP/status/1393940810937348098?s=20

          I look forward to the evidence you will provide that disproves the UN’s claim that Hamas purposely uses heavily populated civilian areas to stage attacks. Also, I think Hamas did more than “take out a couple Israeli soldiers” this time.

          It is possible to condemn Israel’s far right government while also recognizing Hamas as scum. We can simultaneously damn both for killing civilians without making it seem like one has given the other justification.

        • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          14
          ·
          1 year ago

          You’re advocating for the rape, murder and kidnapping of women and children and I should be shamed of myself right? Palestine may have been a great state once, but now it’s a terrorist stronghold and you can say Palestinians are a race but they’re not, they’re a nationality. They’re Arab, and the Arab world hates and rejects them too cause they’re extremists. Again what they were is what they were, now they’re just a band of terrorists hanging on for dear life

          • prole
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            I haven’t advocated for shit, and people like you make good faith discussions about this topic impossible.

            You clearly know very little actual history of the region.

    • turnleftist@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      39
      arrow-down
      28
      ·
      1 year ago

      Palestinians using violent means might think they’re succeeding because they are actually getting landback for the first time in decades, but they fail to consider how bad it looks to me, a guy on the internet who thinks it would be better for their PR if they kept dying instead.

      • jcit878@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        31
        arrow-down
        30
        ·
        1 year ago

        A) they didnt get land back, they are likely to lose more

        B) throw rocks at tanks, dont be surprised when you get glassed

        • turnleftist@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          24
          arrow-down
          31
          ·
          1 year ago

          A) they didnt get land back, they are likely to lose more

          False, they did. And they only lose more if Israel continues its genocide, which you’re prob gonna advocate.

          B) throw rocks at tanks, dont be surprised when you get glassed

          Like I said. Grotesque, as usual 🤣

    • AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      1 year ago

      No, the Palestinians who are killed are on the hands of Israel, who killed them. The “they did it first” argument didn’t work with your mom when you and your siblings were fighting as kids, what the fuck kind of mental gymnastics makes you think it works when we’re talking about genocide of an entire people? You’re out of your damn mind.

      And don’t get gleeful watching Palestinians die, because Israel is about to invade Gaza. That’s house-to-house and room-to-room fighting. Ask the Russians how that went in WW2, or the Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Israelis haven’t done all their dying, they’re just signing up for the slaughter now.

      • jcit878@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        10
        ·
        1 year ago

        The “they did it first” argument didn’t work with your mom when you and your siblings were fighting as kids

        yet that is all you whiny terrorist supporters have been bitching and crying about since the attack (its ok to attack israel cause TheY dId It FiRSt

    • GBU_28@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Have you seen the air raids in the Gaza strip? They fucked up big time. They’re getting carpet bombed, I can’t believe they didn’t see this coming

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        They did I’m sure. This will turn more people against Israel. Israel has all the power, and they continuously kill civilians, sometimes because Hamas is using them but often for no reason. As bad as it is, this is how you fight when you don’t have equal power. You cause an overreaction and capitalize on it. It also shows that Bibi isn’t actually “Mr. Security” like he says.

    • skozzii@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      It was always unclear who was worse because it as always a tit for tat that has been going on for so long. It is such a complex issue.

      What is not complex is this terror attack was totally one-sided and came at a time when tensions had been dropping and things seemingly improving. It is clear Hamas has gone too far, and it was just brutal to witness.

      Isreal government leadership needs to change, and Hamas needs to be eliminated. Netanyahu has been in power for far too long and its dangerous, and unlikely to resolve and issues they have.

      Once he is gone and Hamas is gone, they can perhaps come back to the bargaining table.

    • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      Hamas has always supported genocide against Jewish Israelis, they have always been extreme. You had sympathy for that? WTF bro!?

      • jcit878@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        sympathy for the plight of the poor bastards being used as pawns by their genocidal terrorist leaders? yeah of course I do. Why would I be in favour of wiping the people out?

        • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          You shouldn’t, but you phrased in a way that made it sound like the Palestinian masses are responsible for Hamas.

          The masses aren’t interested in instigating war or conflict. Muslims and Jews both could live in peace like they did before the West took over, but that would disrupt the western hegemony. I think people should blame leaders, including leaders outside the Middle East when we are looking for reasons for this never ending and bloody conflict.

    • PyroNeurosis@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Hamas could probably extrapolate what came next, it’s not exactly new ground. As for your sympathy, it didnt change a damn thing for them in the first place what did they lose?

    • gmtom@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      26
      ·
      1 year ago

      At the next Hamas leadership meeting

      “Guys our attacks are causing us to lose the support of Internet neckbeards that kind of sort of support us but never did anything at all to show that support”

      “Oh no, they’re our most crucial supporters”

      “I told you we should have just kept letting the IDF commit war crimes on us with impunity”

  • sivalente@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    68
    arrow-down
    28
    ·
    1 year ago

    Entire settlements have been burned to the ground, the population murdered and kidnapped. This will end now, and it will end violently, there is no other way. Hamas is the governing body of the failed autonomous region of gaza and now they will pay the price for starting a war.

    • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      85
      arrow-down
      13
      ·
      1 year ago

      Palestinians are going to suffer for what Hamas has started. And doubt very much that the common Palestinian wanted this. However, Israel’s bombing of civilian infrastructures in Gaza is only going to perpetuate this violence.

      Nobody wins in this conflict. But, it would be a big win for the region if Nethnyahu and his party were removed and replaced with a peace seeking parliament that could turn things around.

        • dontcarebear @lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          46
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          That’s the same as saying that there can be no peace with Palestinians and the only way to resolve this is by hauling them all in trucks to crematoriums or the Jordanian border.

          Not going to happen. Either of these “Solutions” from either side of the coin.

          That’s like solving depression with suicide.

          • jet@hackertalks.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            14
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Everybody wants peace… via total victory.

            It’s rare for sides to genuinely want peace through equality and forgiveness with bitter enemies.

            • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              1 year ago

              Do you live in North America? I’m native so if you are, get the fuck out of here, otherwise don’t protest if I fuck you up right? You’re in my ancestral home after all, and you’re the occupier here

            • Cylusthevirus@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              pathetic Bourgeois Humanist tendencies

              Calling dibs on this for my new prog band. Nobody else gets to take it. On second thought maybe it’s a better album title.

        • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          29
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          1 year ago

          Your “homeland” has been bounced around so long that just about any ancient people in that region can claim it as theirs. Fuck your ancestors and your stone age feuds. If you really want this, go over there and join Hamas. I’m native blood living in North America, and I’m not about to start murdering people cause they took my ancestors home.

          • VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            What if they took your home? Or your father’s home, your grandfather’s? All your families and neighbors? Then put you in MA open area concentration camp, controlled your food, water, electricity and movement, started destroying your sacred places, etc. Natives killed people for that, too.

            • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              So… exactly what they said by saying that they were Native American and living in North America? You’re splaining.

              The colonists took their ancestor’s home as well as everyone of their same culture. Decades later, Americans forced Native Americans to move with the Trail of Tears, and then created half-independent reservations for them. They don’t have control over their food nor water nor electricity. And when haven’t Americans defiled sacred native places?

              Native Americans could decide to overthrow state governments tomorrow and I could not truly fault them if civilians remained safe. I’m of the mind that the US deeply owes natives reparations and aid. While in the past some tribes did take up arms, others decided to adapt. The Seminoles in Florida don’t want the football team’s native American mascot changed because it is an homage treated with proper respect.

              • VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                No it’s not the same because this just happened and is still happening. That’s what I’m saying the difference is. While they both matter, there’s a big difference between wrongs that were done to your ancestors, which is what they were talking about, and wrongs that are done to you and family you know personally. You don’t know really know until you’re in that position. So for those tribes that did take up arms, honestly I don’t blame them one bit.

                Although obviously I’d probably condemn them if I lived in the same time period and saw them raping people and do the heinous shit Hamas did, from a historical standpoint, I can’t judge the natives’ armed struggle against the forces of colonialism.

                • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I guess I took the view that ancestor vs direct family wrongs ultimately have the same effect, but I actually disagree with that now, thinking about it more. I get what you mean, from personal experience. An institution fucking over your great great grandfather is different than the institution fucking over your father.

        • wanderingmagus@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          “The only way to achieve piece is the end of Islam as a religion and its people as a culture. There can be no other way to achieve peace with the terrorists.” - how you sound right now.

    • ∟⊔⊤∦∣≶@lemmy.nz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      It could well be the end of Palestine. I hardly see Netanyahoo stopping until Hamas is completely wiped out. Israel is on a warpath now, and any civilian human shields Hamas tries to put in the way are going to be destroyed as well because Israel DGAF now.

      In the end, Israel is going to commit more atrocities than Hamas in total. And by that point there may not be a Palestine left.

    • Deceptichum@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      41
      arrow-down
      42
      ·
      1 year ago

      Every day for decades Israelis have been destroying Palestinian villages and killing or injuring innocent Palestinians.

      https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/3/3/israeli-settler-attacks-against-palestinians-by-the-numbers

      How would you feel if Israelis burnt your toddler to death?

      https://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-palestinian-child-burnt-to-death-20150730-story.html

      Israel is the oppressor, they are the only side who has the power to end this situation and give the Palestinians back their freedom instead of murdering them in ghettos.

      • dontcarebear @lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        28
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        For peace you need two sides at the table, and both sides gave in to their fanatics (Israeli settlers and Hamas/Islamic Jihad).

        Both sides of the extremes have proven what they would do if they are in charge.

        Violence, terror… genocide.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          20
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          Not saying you’re wrong, but Israel funded those fanatics so the Palestinian peace movement would lose steam. They wanted this to happen.

          • dontcarebear @lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            You are painfully correct, but it is a complicated situation stretching to the days of Prime Minister Itzhak Rabin and his assassination, and there’s history before that.

            If you want to brutally simplify it, you can point the finger at the current prime minister and the Israeli settlers and their supporters in the right wing.

            Just don’t forget to point your other finger at Hamas, abu-mazen (PLO leader, Holocaust denier), Yasser Arafat and Iran.

            It is, as I said previously, complicated.

            • Madison420@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              7
              ·
              1 year ago

              Why would I point the finger at Hamas? It wouldn’t exist if Israel didn’t support it while they were taking out people Israel wanted gone.

              I feel the same way about al queda, we created it so we don’t get to complain.

              • dontcarebear @lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Hamas started in 1987 and always was a Muslim ISIS-like organization who’s goal was the destruction of Israel.

                Until the rule of Benjamin Netanyahu, no Israeli government supported Hamas. Quite the contrary, it fought against it. It is not like the US and Al-Queda (which was used as a proxy against the Soviets).

                wouldn’t exist if Israel didn’t support it while they were taking out people Israel wanted gone.

                I’m not sure I understand your claim here.

                • Madison420@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Officially yes.

                  Incorrect, netanyahu just didn’t hide it very well, bro there’s so many times where you have documented accounts of Israel letting Hamas attacks happen and then moving to stop them. It’s exactly the same were just father apart.

                  Hamas could have and would have been exterminated in the 90s if Israel thought it benefitted them very simple, they needed a existential enemy so they made one.

          • dontcarebear @lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            A Zionist is a nationalist Jew. If you ever served in armed forces, then you were an American nationalist, or at least supported your country.

            Zionists do the same for Israel.

          • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            I hope you feel strongly enough about this to go join Hamas. It’s your chance to stand up to the Zionists, and heroically blow up a music festival full of innocent people. And suffer the consequences.

              • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                1 year ago

                Veteran of the armed forces, explains a lot from colonizer boot thug. You’re used to policing and blowing up the brown people, so you know all about it. I actually grew up during a war, a civilian in an American instigated conflict, so I probably know a lot more than you about what it’s like to live during a war and bombing, you’re just good at dropping said bombs

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Israel is the oppressor

        I don’t disagree with this line, but they are also the victim. The origins of the nationalist movement for a Jewish state came in light of Russian pogroms killing Jews – a Jewish scholar noted that the only way they could have peace, freedom, and respect seemed to be having a nation of their own.

        Israel has absolutely been the oppressor for a lot of the country’s history, but it takes some fucking gall to say Israel is the oppressor after Hamas killed and kidnapped civilians. Your logic in fact would suggest Israel has the moral high ground now. The Hamas attack has killed a ton of innocent people, including children.

        Tell me, does Hamas have the right to kill Israeli children because the Israeli government killed Palestinian children? If so, does Israel have the right if we reverse the situation?

        What the Israeli government has done to Palestinians is a war crime and an atrocity. That does not mean Israel is the villain and Hamas is the good guy. The opposite isn’t true either. You’re grossly simplifying the conflict and not trying to understand its roots.

    • prole
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      15
      ·
      1 year ago

      “Settlements”. What a cute word for genocide.

    • prole
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      13
      ·
      1 year ago

      “Settlements”. What a cute word for genocide.

    • prole
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      15
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      “Settlements.” What a cute word for “genocide.”

  • Kra@mtgzone.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    81
    ·
    1 year ago

    The Palestinians will pay for their crimes this times. The gates of hell will open above them, and the fire will rain down on them. They still won’t regret what they did because they are so full of hate and they lack the cognitive ability for it.

    • dontcarebear @lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      40
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      You’re talking like the terrorists you indite.

      The path to total victory will be a pyrrhic one, regardless of if you’re Palestinian or Israeli.

      • bingbong@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        No he’s right in that regard unfortunately, the Palestinians will now suffer and the whole world will watch. Israel doesn’t view Palestinians as people, they will gladly murder dozens of civilians just to get at one hamas loser.

    • dumdum666@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      Turn down your hate a notch - as others have already said: it is not „the Palestinians“ - it is Hamas

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’m pretty sure Jesus frowns upon delighting in the en masse deaths of a people. I believe that’s the story of thing that opens the gates of hell for you personally.