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Yup! Sideloading is legally required to be available by the EU Digital Markets Act by March 2024. Both Apple and Android must comply!
Ahh, so the only thing saving us from a corporate dominated future is laws…
Well I’m an American, I’m sure if they wanted, they could always make a EU version and US version. I a bit worried for the future.
Android is open source, and there are many forks of it already. If they were to try this, those of us who care would just run a fork of Android.
Assuming that there will be phones with unlockable bootloaders sold in the US in the future. There are precious few of them now. Importing’s always an option (and quite easy these days), but then you run into the problem of band support.
Burning a new ROM is just as hard fora regular user as jailbreaking an iPhone, so practically it doesn’t make a difference if android is open-source or not.
Also, even though core android is OSS, what you and i run on our phones heavily depends on the play framework which is Google proprietary. Amazon has tried and failed to fork android before with its fire devices and that hasn’t worked.
FYI GrapheneOS is trivial to install (you don’t need to do all that exploit and root nonsense you used to have to!) and runs entirely without Google Play Services (unless you want to install them in a less-invasive way, which is also officially supported)
Trivial to install if you have a pixel phone. As far as I can tell on their website, no other devices are officially supported, and building your own rom for your phone is out of reach for most (even advanced) users
Correct, they say that pixels are the only phones that are secure enough for their needs (and the fact that they’re pretty developer-friendly I imagine is a big plus)
This also applies to most custom ROMs such as Pixel Experience, LineageOS or ArrowOS. Lineage can be installed with or without Google services on most phones
But the vast majority won’t, and that’s an issue.
I mean they could do that, but then they take on the resource overhead of maintaining both an EU and non-EU version of the OS.
And for what? To stop the tiny percentage of people who do side loading of apps from doing so because reasons?
It financially doesn’t make sense for there to be anything but one version of the OS.
I love the EU.
Hoe does Apple comply ,
Law comes into effect march 2024. Apple will need to comply then
Watch how they will act like it was their decision.
I feel like they’d not even mention it in any press material and just include it in the software update discreetly
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AFAIK they have no way of doing that. This would be a huge undertaking.
Doesn’t Apple already allow side loading to some degree?
You can just put an app onto a iDevice through iTunes, without having to run it through the App Store. Apple even puts out a specifically outdated version of iTunes that still retains much of the App functionality.
It’s not as though they’re trying to build the feature in from scratch.
I have a few side-loaded apps on my phone through TrollStore. iirc they don’t support anything relatively new though.
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Why would it be a huge undertaking? Allowing installing apps from package files obtained from anywhere seems like a trivial change to the software for a company with a lot of resources.
They have until 2024 to comply
Nope, Android itself is not restrictive, it’s the extra add-ons by vendors that cause restrictions.
This is it.
I switched to Pixel phones ordered from Google. I can replace the software with whatever and not worry about breaking an eFuse warranty.
If they are going to restrict sideloading, they’ll probably restrict bootloader unlocking too. In the future, just make sure you research the bootloader unlockablility before buying a phone, because the next pixel might be locked.
It’s cellular providers who restrict bootloader locking generally. But you’re right but that would go against the grain as the Pixel series are designed to be the flagship for AOSP
I used to root my Android phones. Then I stopped because all banking apps were disallowing launch if your phone was detected as having root.
yeah i wish there was a reliable way to fix this, last time i checked there werent any. also those apps didnt even show up in play store (ex.: revolut)
I’m using revolut on a rooted device, no issues on 3 banking apps. Google Pay can be a hit or miss though, had it working a month ago but now it fails.
In the last 3 or 4 years I think I’ve had gpay not work, like, 1 day. And that’s just because I updated magisk wrong. Magisk and either magisk hide or zygisk (depending on OS version) have been rock solid for me for quite some time.
People complain about this as if it’s some sort of massive roadblock that nobody’s solved yet.
Magisk Hide handles this and has been around for years. Venture around on the relevant XDA forum and SEARCH
Can approve this. After each clean flash I just install universal safetynet fix module and enable zygisk. I am able to pass safetynet, it took my like 10 mins and I didn’t need any super knowledge.
You can just hide root from those apps. I have everything working, even Google Pay.
Back when I looked into this, which was more than half a decade ago, it was a nightmare to figure out what worked and what didn’t. The XDA community is also hard to distangle.
Maybe it’s changed since then but I didn’t have the time to look into what worked and what didn’t.
No. Because if your write Software for Android you rely on the Android Debug Bridge (in short ADB). So it is an necessary part for debugging your Software. And ADB always allows installing New Software.
No as others said for legal and development reasons but also other companies have their own versions of the play store (which avoids Google’s fees) and might not agree to continue manufacturing
As long as Android remains open-source, someone will always provide an alternative version if Google restricts the “official” OS
If you’re talking about things like Google deprecating the two apps, then yes such things will continue. Google is slowly starting to sink (for whatever reason), and they are trying their hand at YouTube advertisements and Android.
But the source of Android is FOSS, and whilst Google does make up majority of the development efforts, if they were to close-source everything they would be causing massive ripples through the tech industry. I’m sure Samsung is going to try their (admittedly, very expensive) hand in court too if Google takes such a lick. So will Huawei and Xiaomi in the Chinese courts. Not to mention that Google benefits from the patches provided to Android from the FOSS community.
I don’t think it’s going to happen soon, if it does.
Actually you may not be too far off. Noticed recently that users don’t have access to their Android>OBB or Data folders anymore through the normal files app. I know there is a workaround but I haven’t been able to get it to work. This may not affect downloading/installing apk’s from other sources, but if you have to manually install the OBB/Data you cannot do that.
Um I still can. You use a file explorer app (I use an app called ZArchiver) and find the directory, tap on it and there is a pop up telling you to grant it permission, then you will need to locate it using a android system file explorer, and once you find it, you can grant permission to access the directory to the app. I know its hard to describe using words, but I can record my screen and show it to you.
Edit: In android 13 the data and obb diectory aren’t actually restricted to third party file explorers, only the sub-directories, like the files used by an app (those directories starting with “com.”) are resteicted and you need to manually grant permission using the method I said. I can access data and obb just fine using ZArchiver.
This is what I meant, thank you for specifying :)
It is weird, I have a Redmi Note 9s and my phone comes with both a xiaomi files app and a google files app. I can’t see the data or obb folders with the xiaomi one but I can read and modify them with the google app one.
So I assume this limitation is only for third party apps?
I don’t think so, since that is one of the factors that makes Android “unique” as a mobile operating system since it gives you the freedom to install the app you want, it is in the official store or not
(sorry for my English)
There will always be a fork of AOSP even if google ditches it the community will keep it up.
I think this is Google’s long-term plan.
As others have stated, it will be illegal in the EU if that were to happen. However, it would probably cause issues with phone makers as well since they probably wouldn’t be able to properly fork Android and slap their skins on top like ColorOS or Samsung’s skin.
For “official” Android products, maybe eventually.
In fact I can see a future where all computing/devices are locked down and become appliances, much like your tv or fridge.
You use them how you’re “meant to”. Sideloading? Programming? Tweaking? Why do you need to do that, are you a terrorist?
I hope we don’t get to that world, but for a while now I’ve been thinking it looks like a possible outcome.
a future where all computing/devices are locked down
And who would mandate and control such a requirement? And how would it be enforced? And why?
The only reason Apple is locked down as it is, is that Apple as the only manufacturer has absolute control over architecture, hardware and software.
Being open will always be a unique selling point by at least some competing companies, so there will continue to be some, absent a dictatorship rigorously controlling the manufacture and sale of such devices. But I think not even China has managed to accomplish that. Open devices are an absolute necessity if you want research and technological progress. And if the industry needs it, some of it will inevitably become available to citizens, too.
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Sideloading must always remain available, but I feel like restricting the ability to unlock sideloading might be potentially beneficial. There have been reports of people getting their bank accounts emptied after sideloading some random app and giving it accessibility permissions. Preventing people from granting such permissions on impulse with a more tedious unlocking process could potentially benefit some.
Of course people will disagree. Why should we be inconvenienced for some idiots? It comes down to how willing you are to be inconvenienced for the safety of these people I guess. I already know I’ll probably be downvoted given the tech inclined crowd on lemmy these days, but I personally wouldn’t mind performing an adb command or smth. Something like executing an adb command once is a relatively small price to pay imo.
Well think of it this way:
The one of the common ways for someone to get their (windows) computer hacked is to get tricked into executing a .exe file. Hey why not block programs unless they are approved by windows? Let’s call it Windows 10 S, S for Secure! (/sarcasm)
I mean maybe we could compromise a bit and hide the sideloading behind the developer options. Not connecting to a computer and ADB, just behind the developer menu. Most people don’t even know how to get that menu, and the people who sideload will either already know it, or can easily find out after a quick internet search. As long as there is an option, I’ll be able to find it.
